Component Tweeter Mount Idea!

[ogilybogil]

Hello everybody, long time reader, first time poster

Well, I have been getting friendly with my Search function on the forum and have gone from almost no knowledge of car stereos, to well, not sure where is stand. So much info on this forum.

MY QUESTION IS:
I want to mount the tweeters to get the best possible sound stage, so I guess the stock placement is a bad idea. I dont want to cut the door, and make anything look unstock. I was thinking, why isn't there room to mount the tweeters inside the door maybe, where some folks have stuck the crossovers, and drill small holes in front of it (like the stock door speaker holes) for the sound to pass through? Maybe even next to the speakers if there is room on the MDF? That way you wouldnt have to drill any holes. Any ideas why this would/wouldn't work? Any advice on the setup would be great, too!
Here is the rest of the system im planning.
First, 6.5" Componant speakers, probably JL 650 XR right now. Sounded better than Infinity Kappas, and Eclipses.
A Dave Navone LOC, as to keep the stock head unit.
A 2 channel amp, not sure exactly what I need/want, havent gotten that far yet...
Im keeping the stock speakers in the back.
An Infinity Bass link for the bass. Was quite impressed with how hard and clean it hits at Circuit City today. I listen to mostly rock (tool) and reggea (sublime) but when I put in the Chronic 2001, it bumped. Small size is huge advantage, as I need the room for cycling/snowboarding.

Jeff

 

[Poseur]

THis is somethign that I too have hit m head against the wall over quite a bit. If you want to fit them alongside the mid's, you'd have to go to 5-1/4's which sacrifices a bit of mid-bass. YOu certainly could mount the tweets behind the door panel and drill a bunch of little holes in front, but for one, highs being very directional and easily obstructed, you're obstrcting the sound between speaker and ear quite a bit. And besides, if you're gonna have a bunch of little holes anyway, why not just make one big one?

Nowthen my 2 good options are to either surface-mount the tweets on the kick panels (there's plenty of spots, and this would be pretty good placement) or do what Servo did for Matthew, and build a "bridge" mount for the tweet that'll sort of put it above the edge of your mid.

Speaker-wise, sounds good. I take it you've listened to a bunch? JL's do sound pretty good.

As for the sub.. umm, no? trust me you can do ALOT better for the same$ and be happier with yourself in the end to boot. There's endless methods for making space-saving boxes, (I'll be fiberglassing as soon as I get off my arse here) What kind of car do you have? if P5 pre-03.5 you can always buy someone's stock sub off of them and have the under-floor thing and still have freespace, but then again there's also the eD8a which'll sound WORLDS better than the basslink, and take up less space! Asfor amps for your sub and components, really I've got 1580wrms lurking under my seats without problem. Tucks things out of the way and leaves plenty of room for boots/lids/wheels/soggygloves/after-ride beer in the back.

 

[ogilybogil]

Thanks for advice...

I have listened to a few speakers, today was the first day I went out and started listening. Definately gonna wait a week or so, hear all the different speakers and decide on what I REALLY want.
I would rather not bridge mount the tweeter.Great idea, but somebody said something about the sound being bounced off the bridge and directed back into the tweeter? This seems to make sense, expecially since the speaker works on vibrations, and that sound waves bouncing INTO a moving cone, probably wouldnt be best.
Can you elaborate on the suggestion for the sub? Definately need more bass than 03.5 sub or whatever. Need some bumps, but definately clear sound too. I am pretty impressed with the basslink, but if their is a better option without sacrifycing more room, that would be best I know I can tuck the amps under the seats. Thanks,
Jeff.

P.S. How much should I expect to be spending on all the wiring, maybe Average vs. Monster cable?

 

[ogilybogil]

I found the website for the Elementals. Our the subs really that good for the price? How about the speakers then, is their somewhere that I could listen to them. They dont seem to be to mainstream... About how big is a box for the 10''?

 

[sndsgood]

generally the best quality subs and speakers out there arnt mainstream. u won't find them at your b.b. or c.c.


as for the tweeter mounting it over the speaker is fine. it won't hurt the sound. ive used taht type setup in competition before.

as far as location i'd look at building a pair of kickpods for the 6.5 and tweet, this will give u the most equallised pathlengths wich will give you a better image. if done right youlle only need on screw hole in the floor wich will be thru the carpet and when the screw was removed and the kicks taken out, you'd never know anything was there.

 

[FoxPro5]

Another option is to find a component set that can function as a coaxial. This will allow you to have the quality of a component set with the functionality of just one speaker and you would not have to cut up your doors. My MB Quart's (premium series) have this and it works great b/c the tweets swivel at 45 degree angles giving you like 6 or so ways to point the tweet. You could mount the crossovers inside the door or in the pocket....this would require driling a hole through both the pannel and the steel itself.

I have never heard a speaker i liked at Best Buy or C.C., but that's just me...you get what you pay for though.

As for wiring it depends...i would estimate like $50???

I would consider buying a 10" or 8" sub and building a small sealed box for it. The e10k is $125 and a box and materials will cost you like $25 plus your time. I built a .5cuft box and it is not too big and hit's PLENTY hard for my tastes!!!!!

 

[ogilybogil]

Where can I listen to the MB Quarts? Do car audio shops have them? Also, does the basslink really suck that bad? How come nobody likes it. I have heard good things about it? Well, today I'm going to go listen to some more speakers, maybe go to a couple car audio places. Im a little skeptical about getting this stuff on ebay, you dont know if it really is new or used or whatever. Good prices though. Kick pods would be cool, but I think I would rather have factory mounts though. I didnt think you could just buy the kickpods, I thought you had to make them? Thanks,
Jeff

 

[servoeyes]

The bass link is ok depending on the price that you can get it for. But...it's a sub in a plastic enclosure, already amped....convenient, but not as flexible as other things for the same price. Any eD speaker in the appropriate box will blow away the basslink, bar none.

As for the quarts...I think you can listen to them at Magnolia HiFi in the san jose/santa clara area. I would aslo look into Boston Acoustics. You can get a dealer list on BA's site, JL Audio's site, etc. Also...and this might take some finagling, try to listen to Image Dynamics Chameleons, Kicker Resolutions, Adire Kodas amonst others. If you do a little research you might be able to find these around you (since you're in Cali that increases your chances).

 

[got wake?]

MY QUESTION IS:
I want to mount the tweeters to get the best possible sound stage....
I dont want to cut the door, and make anything look unstock.

Jeff

those 2 things don't go together. for best possible sound stage you either need to build kick panels, or mount the mid-range driver in kick panels and the tweeters on the lower part of the A-pillars. both will not be stock. pick which is most important to you and go from there. you can get good sound stage from using the stock speaker location, but it is far from the best.

 

[ogilybogil]

Well,
If you say that the eD will blow away the basslink for the same size enclosure, I cant see why I would want the basslink! When you say mount the tweets in the A pillar, thats the stock location, right? I thought this was a bad spot? As for the mounting, if the quarts do it, that would be sweet to mount the tweeters centrally on the speaker! I dont know how they sound yet though... Thanks for the help Servoeyes, Im gonna see what I can find. I love San Jose. I checked Magnolia HiFi, only the Santa rosa store has car audio. Oh well...

Jeff

 

[got wake?]

the stock location is the sail panels. yeah they are near the A-pillars, but they are far from optimized for that location. it takes a well trained ear to properly aim tweeters, especially when they are mounted on the A-pillar. however once they are properly aimed, it raises the sound stage and has awesome imaging.

 

[FoxPro5]

You should be able to find a dealer locator at www.mbquart.com. but i don't know for sure though. I really would be a good idea to listen to as many speakers as you can and also talk to as many of the guys at the stereo shops as you can and here what they say. This way you can know who to trust for advice and who doesn't really give a s*** and just wants your money. The dude I talk to never asks for the sale when i go in there and ask him what would be the best option for me. I was told that the Quarts are a great off-axis speaker...they might not sound super awesome, but they will always sound good because they are pretty versitle. I bought them because it was the best option for my goals, set up, and budget. A lot of people complain that they sound harsh, but they are probably listening to them on-axis on some sound board...and who knows how they are powered and how they have the tweeters attenuated on the x-over.(screwy)

I'm sure there are "better" sounding speakers out there. Everyone wants to recommend the same stuff they have...it's just human nature to want to feel good about/rationalize your decision making!! With that said, ironically, I don't hear too many guys bragging about their Infinity Basslink.(headshake I have an Infinity sub and it pounds like a mofo, but i would recommend you shop around for a while and decide what you rally like regardless of the marketing schemes that plague this world(rant)

 

[Poseur]

OOH, yea check BA's and DEFINATELY check Magnolia HiFi if you can make it there, atleast up here I was blown away by how knowledgeable the guys were. Basically check the sites and find dealer locaters. I knwo that Mag HiFi up here actualyl dropped BA for this year, so I'm assuming it'llbe the same.

As for the mounting. Boston includes bridge mounts as well. or you could always build your own bridges, I think it may have been me mentioning some concern for it, but I'm always learning, and the vast majority of the really knowledgeable guys in here seem tot hink it's oaky, and I honestly have no eral evidence or experience either way, PLUS if MBQ, Image Dynamics, CDT and Boston all include these mounts standard, it must be alright, eH?

As for subs, YES eD is AWESOME. I honestly can't put it to words how much I love my sub. I had no idea bass could soudn soo damn good. I too was skeptical of the seemingly low prices, but it's the real deal. GOOD stuff. I'm sure there's someone on the eD forum (chekc their website it'll link you) who has an eD sub nearby you can listen to. With box building. there's alot of threads, and a REALLY good how-to written up. I'll be doing one myself soon hopefully. IT should be CAKE to get a .5cuf box for a single 10 tucked into your jack-side corner. http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57837 that's the latest thread about it, but search around there's more (I've got 'em bookmarked, but I just swapped harddrives and haven't recovered all of that yet) I think Rider69's got one of the cleanest simplest renditions of a fiberglassed subbox, hopefulyl mine'll be similar. if you read the how-to's it comes apparant that its' REALLY not allthat tricky to do. there's some for making kick panels as well, but I personally think I'm gonna stick with fairly stock mounting for now.

 

[ogilybogil]

Hey guys,
Just got back from hearing some MB Quart premiums, BA Pro Series. The MB quarts had much better feeling and warmth to them, and the BA Pro's sounded a little empty and hollow. The Mb's were not harsh at all. Do you think it wil matter much if the tweeters are mounted where the stock tweeters go? Hey FOx Pro, where did you get your MB and how much? I am seeing 499 as the average price. So, I think I have decided on the speakers, unless something else really impresses me. I am not totally off of the basslink yet, I still think it hits pretty clean and hard, but i want to hear the eD first. If I go with an seperate sub and amp, is it better to go with 4 channel bridged for the sub, or 2 2 channel amps? Thanks again,
Jeff

 

[Matthew]

servo made me a custom mount for my RC620s...it rocks. mounts right over the speaker inside the door via a custom copper mount.

 

[FoxPro5]

Hey guys,
Just got back from hearing some MB Quart premiums, BA Pro Series. The MB quarts had much better feeling and warmth to them, and the BA Pro's sounded a little empty and hollow. The Mb's were not harsh at all. Do you think it wil matter much if the tweeters are mounted where the stock tweeters go? Hey FOx Pro, where did you get your MB and how much? I am seeing 499 as the average price. So, I think I have decided on the speakers, unless something else really impresses me. I am not totally off of the basslink yet, I still think it hits pretty clean and hard, but i want to hear the eD first. If I go with an seperate sub and amp, is it better to go with 4 channel bridged for the sub, or 2 2 channel amps? Thanks again,
Jeff

I paid $220 b-4 shipping off e-bay brand new in the box. Everyone cringes when i mention the word, but i feel comfortable, i ask a lot of questions before i buy...questions only someone who knows what they are talking about can answer...If they cant answer them, I don't buy....I do a lot of research.... and it pays off. Sure there's risk, but to save $250 I'll take it. Shipping costs suck, but it is usually less than local sales tax. BUt that's just me, i don't pay retail for ANYTHING because nobody should have to pay the middle man jack squat....for real, i even buy my food from the farmer down the street!!(freak)

If you go with the Quarts you can easily push 150-200 watts to them no problem. I have 130 on each of them and they still want more!! You could even biamp them with a 4 channel if you want. The sub amp you get will have to depend on the sub's impedence among other things.

 

[ogilybogil]

If you get them off ebay, I heard that the warranty isn't valid since you dont get it through a authorized dealer. I feel comfortable getting things off ebay as well, but I'm concerned that maybe the speakers could be used or abused, even if they are advertised as brand new. The Mb's are sick. What buyer did you buy from?

 

[Poseur]

Hey guys,
Just got back from hearing some MB Quart premiums, BA Pro Series. The MB quarts had much better feeling and warmth to them, and the BA Pro's sounded a little empty and hollow. The Mb's were not harsh at all. Do you think it wil matter much if the tweeters are mounted where the stock tweeters go? Hey FOx Pro, where did you get your MB and how much? I am seeing 499 as the average price. So, I think I have decided on the speakers, unless something else really impresses me. I am not totally off of the basslink yet, I still think it hits pretty clean and hard, but i want to hear the eD first. If I go with an seperate sub and amp, is it better to go with 4 channel bridged for the sub, or 2 2 channel amps? Thanks again,
Jeff

It all depends on the kind of power you want to push. Personally I'd go with 2 seperate amps. This way you can get a class-d amp for your subs (less SQ, but much more power-efficent) this will minimize the dimming that we all inevitably get, (believe me, it SUCKS at 1.5KW) Also 4ch amps generally spekaing don't have the power to give nice components what they want to play with. I'd say try to get at least 100W per channel ifnot more. And then for you sub, I'd go as close to their max reccomended RMS as possible.

I'm suprised you didn't like the bostons, but I also hate quarts, it's all in the ear I guess. Were they the new or old Boston pro's bychance? The old ones seem to be more pouplar sound-wise I didn't really have a head-to-head comparison to go off of, but I think it may be my preferance as well. There's also a bit of bias that can sometimes come into play with crossover settings. there's generally alot of tweeter adjustment and some shops set things up randomly. some tune for best sound, and others jsut set everything flat. that's another good Q to ask. Witht he speakers.

Again, the eD's are verymuch the way to go. Listen to one if you can find someone. If you're ever up in wa, I've got you covered *L* There are few things audio-wise that I'd blindly recommend, and this is one of them. Really hard to go wrong. You might want to check availability of what you want, however as they're running out of their nomex cones, and are gonna be switching to aluminum soon. Ideally if you want thigns to sound really good, I'd look at the 10o.

 

[servoeyes]

The problem with the ED 10o, is that you need at least 400W RMS...with the K or the 8a, 250-300 is fine.

As for the quarts...they sound very full on the soundboard, but too harsh for my ears. I knew that if I put them in the car, with my amp, my ears would bleed. That's another key...the amp that you listen to them on. My amp is very transparent...so if I listen to JL VRs they sound more trebley than on a lot of other amps. I do like having midrange response, and the Quarts may be a good fit for your ear. Try not to mount the tweet too high up, though...the tweets on quarts can be extremely biting. Our very own 1st MP3, if I recall correctly, had quarts with the tweets up high and did some damage to his ears. Now his taste is closer to mine....but even more mellow.

 

[ogilybogil]

The problem with the ED 10o, is that you need at least 400W RMS...with the K or the 8a, 250-300 is fine.

As for the quarts...they sound very full on the soundboard, but too harsh for my ears. I knew that if I put them in the car, with my amp, my ears would bleed. That's another key...the amp that you listen to them on. My amp is very transparent...so if I listen to JL VRs they sound more trebley than on a lot of other amps. I do like having midrange response, and the Quarts may be a good fit for your ear. Try not to mount the tweet too high up, though...the tweets on quarts can be extremely biting. Our very own 1st MP3, if I recall correctly, had quarts with the tweets up high and did some damage to his ears. Now his taste is closer to mine....but even more mellow.

Every shop I talked to said that the best place to mount the tweeters was up high, and just not have the tweeters set up too flat. I guess that makes them sound harsher, and hit more high notes? I get so much contradicting info, it's so hard to decide what to do. I do know the BA's were set up flat, without adjusting them much. The Quartz just sounded fuller. They had more mid bass kick to them. You could really feel the difference. Does a capacitor help with the dimming at all? Is it a good idea for a sub?
Jeff