C&D: 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 vs. 2010 Volkswagen GTI - Comparison Tests

[MSP1524]

I looked at the GTi(4dr) when I was shopping for a new car. Along with the Dodge Caliber SRT4, Subaru WRX(non STi), Honda Civic Si(sedan), VW Jetta GLi, and a Pontiac Vibe GT.Test drove them all. As you would expect all of the them had their plus's and minus's. Now I am a long time VW fan. By my count I have had 15 or so VW's and Audi's over the years and love the way they ride handle and feel. So I was very tempted to go with the GTi. It's a little more refined than the MS3 with a nicer ride and higher end interior. It's not as sporty as the MS3 and of course not as fast however it was a fun drive none the less. There were two reason's I didn't get one. First- is price. Its a couple of grand more than the MS3, and Second- reliability/repair costs. If you have never owned a VAG(VW Audi group) car they can get insanely expensive to own, and repair. I speak from vast experience on this. The Caliber was just not up the the standards of any of the others in terms of build quality. It was fast and that's about it. Oh' the front seats were great! The WRX was nice. The interior was a little cheesey and I'm not a big fan of the exterior styling. And again it was more expensive. I guess if you need AWD it could be the way too go. Having owned Audi's(quattro) I know it comes in handy, especially in snow and rain.The Honda Si was very nice however I wanted the versatility of a hatchback so I ruled it out.Sure was fun to wind-out that V-Tec engine though. The Jetta GLi is the same as the 4dr GTi except its a sedan and even more expensive. And the Vibe GT was not in the performance catagory of the others. So it was the MS3. I guess if you are looking at bang-for-your-buck the MS3 is hard to beat.

 

[suhailsaeed]

mazdaspeed 3 the best (cool)

 

[Newf]

am I mssing something, wtf does that pic have to do with the MS3?

 

[Rainman]

am I mssing something, wtf does that pic have to do with the MS3?

LOLZ....I was thinking the same thing myself.

R

 

[Vater]

It's hard to tell at first, but it's suhailsaeed's signature. A bit on the overly humongous side...

 

[oaklandopen]

am I mssing something, wtf does that pic have to do with the MS3?

what do you mean "what does that pic have to do with the MS3?"? you can clearly see a 2008.5 gt with nav 46 back, 3 in from the right. and the guy put the "Axela" badge on in lieu of "Mazdaspeed3"

 

[Newf]

It's hard to tell at first, but it's suhailsaeed's signature. A bit on the overly humongous side...

HOLY CRAP. i originally thought, it could be a sig, but no way, not that big - so I guess it was.

btw, funny oak.

 

[james123]

I am slightly disappointed with the new MS3's interior. C&D is right to say that lumbar support has diminished. And the interior silver trim is a bit of an eyesore IMO. It's still a fantastic car, and will probably win any other comparison test outside of the GTI.

 

[watchurwrist]

'09 wrx....

I agree daily driver! Though I believe the WRX is considerably quicker than the MS3. I have also read that the WRX base model has cheap interior and a horrible standard shifter, with a base price considerably high compared to the MS3. Also, the WRX hatch has so far been very hard to come by in the US im not sure if there was a production problem or what but every dealership I went to prior to picking up my 2010 MS3 had no WRX's on hand. As for the VW, way over priced for lack of balls (drinks)

According to the latest Consumer Reports, '09 WRX was rated poorly for reliabilty.

 

[Newf]

Any car or anything with plaid on it....crap. Sorry, but plaid is the ugliest material ever. No matter how much I nit pick about the MS3's seats, they are NOT plaid.

 

[ruthless013]

i was surprised that C/D gave it to the gti. i've been reading their mags for the last few years, and their picks are usually based on performance numbers OR price. the MS3 wins in BOTH categories, yet still loses.

-gti, according to their test, pulls 1/100th of a lateral G more. ok. otherwise loses (sometimes handily) in every performance test.

-ms3 is significantly cheaper similarly packaged.

-i only test-drove a gen1 MS3 once, can't remember how good/bad the seats were. but i think the gen2 seats are great, and definetely have gotten better in time. the gti seats? seriously? ITS FRIGGIN PLAID! my grandfather had a pair of golf pants the same pattern, and HE threw them out because HE thought they were LAME. i get that it's a gti thing, but come on...

-i think the interior in the MS3 is pretty awesome, although i haven't seen the gti (not since a 2000 one anyway). i never even noticed or cared to examine it when i was shopping though - i was buying the car for a much different reason, like most people in the market for a hot hatch like a gti or MS3. and it's lightning years ahead of a subaru interior.

so basically C/D gave it to the gti for lack of torque steer (due to lack of power), interior/exterior style (if you say so) and 'refinement.'

i'll take the lap times and trap speeds, thanks.

 

[sephiroth]

yay for parent companies! Go team! ^_^'

 

[kyoo]

I'm actually in this position, considering both cars for a daily driver.

I started with the MS3 but lately I've really been leaning towards the GTI. One, the interior of the car is simply gorgeous. I don't think anyone can question that the GTI's interior is worlds better than the MS3's.. those are even saying it's "slightly" better are misled.

The main benefits of the MS3 are -
cheaper
better performance out of the box
marginally better cargo capacity

However,
- I'm willing to pay the extra price for the GTI's wonderful interior features/amenities - nicer everything, great seats without the red blotchiness, great looking nav system
- A company called APR tunes the GTI remarkably well - With only a tune crank horsepower increases to 254hp/297lbft of torque. I'll also receive with the tune a feature which allows the car to switch between a performance 93 octane map, a stock map, and a valet mode (limits power/revs). This is as much as I'm looking for, the car will be slightly quicker than a stock MS3
- cargo for me are negligible, both cars have the capacity I am looking for

Chime in if I'm missing anything. VW quality has actually improved a LOT since the old days of MK4, even the early MK5's.

Otherwise I don't see a reason as of right now to go with the MS3 - The nav is tiny, and I would sometimes want the passenger to type in the location for me - not do it myself using the steering wheel at a stop. After having driven both, I'll also say the controls (steering wheel, gearbox, and pedals) feel much better on the GTI.

I hope no one gets offended, just some thoughts from a consumer deciding his next purchase. These are my main two choices, or maybe a used +08 STI but they've been having a lot of motor problems that I'm not comfortable with.

Any other particular reasons to get a MS3 over a GTI?

 

[oaklandopen]

Any other particular reasons to get a MS3 over a GTI?

that thar sounds like the beginning of a flame war!!!!

but seriously, i agree the interior of the vw is better than the 2nd gen ms3, seeing how mazda went backwards with a couple things. but im just not thrilled (okay, i want to spew) about the plaid. i think the first place i'd drive the gti would be to the nearest wallyworld to find some seat covers

mazda screwed the seats royally, exterior is damn-near a (notcool) accross the board, and the packages seem just weird now

other than that if the aftermarket for the gti is really that good, and that is what you're into, then the gti sounds like a better option for you. plus, editors are always raving about the fit and finish of german cars compaired to everything else

 

[DailyDriver]

.

 

[kyoo]

Really? With JUST a tune the GTI will be quicker than a stock 2010 MS3?

I don't know enough about it to make "intelligent" comments, but I would suggest looking into this more carefully before just assuming that this magic tune is going to be the end-all perfect answer to the stock GTI's serious power deficiency. There may be some issues / aspects that will not be desirable. If you want to be safe, I'd recommend finding a GTI owner that has had this exact tune done, and see if you can go for a ride in that car and interview the owner etc.... an unbiased guy, not the friend of the guy doing the tuning.

In my opinion, the 2010 MS3 is just barely "fast enough". This is not to suggest that it's not fast, but... I think if it was any "slower", I'd be unhappy with it. It's right on the line. Based on the C&D review, if the stock GTI is indeed considerably slower / less torque etc, I personally couldn't live with it under any circumstances. If power is important to you, you may wish to give this all a lot of thought, because if the magic tune you speak of doesn't work out the way you hope, you may be stuck with a car that is grossly underpowered... and you may be miserable.

What was really important for me was to be able to test drive a brand new bone stock MS3, decide I was satisfied with the power / performance, and then be able to buy the exact car with exact performance. No guess work, no hopes, no depending on a magic "fix" to make the car perform adequately, etc. I personally would not have wanted to take that risk.

Maybe power / performance is not AS important to you as the interior etc, that's fine... we all have different values / goals... but if power IS important to you, I'd think twice about buying an underpowered car and then hoping you can bump up the power via the promise of a magic tune or whatever. I'm sure the tune will help, but it might not truly provide what you're expecting.

If power IS important to you, you might want to just consider going with the new MS3 which will definitely give you well dialed in factory power out of the box with appropriate torque management etc... there's no better way to have it. You need not touch the car, and it'll be ready, right off the showroom floor, to blow the doors off any stock GTI or almost any other car in its class. It's a nice thing to be able to buy a car that is ready to perform, right off the showroom floor.

Funny, ever since I read that C&D comparison test, I've noticed a lot more new GTIs on the road (because I'm just more aware of them now)... and EVERY time I see one, it's always in my rear view mirror, slowly disappearing... makes sense. They don't even try to keep up. It's kind cool driving a car that's so intimidating, with the guts to back it up.

Well, best of luck with your decision in any case. Yeah, the MS3 interior is perhaps not the "finest" interior on the planet, but it's surely not as bad as a lot of you guys suggest. For my purposes anyway, it's way more than adequate, I'm 100% happy with it... especially considering what I paid for the car. But I'll admit, power is more important to me than interior refinement. Quite honestly, when I went to see the MS3 for the first time and saw the price, I expected way worse in terms of both power and the interior... but of course, as we all know here, for the money the MS3 gives you loads of power and an interior that is at the very least above "adequate". It does NOT suck. It's fine. It ain't the best, but it's fine. Would I trade power for more interior refinement? NO WAY. That's just me.

(drive2)

Thanks for a great post -

I've done a lot of research, the tune has actually been around since the mark 5 days, and it's been well proven to produce the power that it does. The huge amount of increase in torque does exist, and I love that I could switch to a valet mode. I don't think it's a trade interior for power in that case. Just whether or not the extra cost is worth it.

A lot of people don't like the plaid - I actually didn't either, until I saw it in person - it's actually visually appealing, not to mention unique. Seats IMO are a lot better than the MS3 in terms of bolstering, and the gauges look great, with a very nice layout and navi layout as well.

Some other things to note, interior dimensions for the cars are pretty similar -rear leg room between the two cars is quite close (ms3 being at 36.2 and the gti being at 35.5) which is something important to me,
- gas mileage for the gti is also at 30mpg, which is quite good - even with the tune it has been shown to retain or improve this mpg rating. I think with the tune the two cars will be quite competitive
-with the ms3, the driver must input the navigation using controls on the steering wheel himself - the gti uses a touch screen that can be used by the passenger (say if you're focusing on going somewhere and your passenger puts in direction for you)

I think the amount of power the car produces with the tune is good enough for me, and if it keeps with the stock MS3 I'm fine with that. As I said, the car will serve as my DD (evo ix in the garage) with some usage at auto-x.

With that, I consider the MS3 because it has a mechanical LSD. The GTI has a "XDS diff" which is basically a system that brakes the inside wheel. The GTI does not allow you to fully defeat the stability control, but with the mark vi the car basically lets you get away with murder before it engages..

Basically, considering a GTI that makes basically similar power, is the refinement of the GTI worth the extra cost? is the question I'm considering

 

[Saskatchewan17]

Thanks for a great post -

I love that I could switch to a valet mode. I don't think it's a trade interior for power in that case. Just whether or not the extra cost is worth it.

Basically, considering a GTI that makes basically similar power, is the refinement of the GTI worth the extra cost? is the question I'm considering

First... you don't want to be switching tune modes so often... it takes around 100 miles of regular driving when reflashing or reintroducing a tune for the fuel trims to settle in and where you can romp on it. So you don't want to be switching in and out of tunes all the time while daily driving.

Secondly, no. It's not worth the price premium for the "refinement." If you want a quiet little eurowagon... go with the GTI. If you want something that is extrordinary to drive and combines an excellent package of performance and everyday useability/refinement/comfort/space then choose the MS3.

Done. I respect the GTI but if you want performance AND still get most everything the GTI has with a Japanese flair... MS3.

Seriously, test drive both... and compare for yourself, don't listen to magazines.

 

[Olestra]

Does the GTI retain it's warranty once you've flashed the ECU?
That is another deal breaker for many if the answer is no.

 

[kyoo]

First... you don't want to be switching tune modes so often... it takes around 100 miles of regular driving when reflashing or reintroducing a tune for the fuel trims to settle in and where you can romp on it. So you don't want to be switching in and out of tunes all the time while daily driving.

Secondly, no. It's not worth the price premium for the "refinement." If you want a quiet little eurowagon... go with the GTI. If you want something that is extrordinary to drive and combines an excellent package of performance and everyday useability/refinement/comfort/space then choose the MS3.

Done. I respect the GTI but if you want performance AND still get most everything the GTI has with a Japanese flair... MS3.

Seriously, test drive both... and compare for yourself, don't listen to magazines.

Fuel trims are factored into the tuning - it would only be for stock when going to the dealer (to keep the warranty), and valet when valeting the car. I'll almost never change the modes anyway.

Also, I have driven both cars, so I do have a good sense of how they both drive. I was able to wring out the ms3 actually, I have a friend who works at a Mazda dealership.

Basically, for the 3k extra I would be paying for the GTI (28k including the tune) the main things I would be getting are:

- better interior
- better navigation
- better controls (gearbox/steering wheel/pedals, from my own opinion)
- better mpg
- hid's

As of now, I feel that it's worth it - I'm only giving up a mechanical diff and fully defeatable traction control.

 

[NathanR]

How can you compare the power of a TUNED GTi to the power of a STOCK MS3? That's like comparing an apple to a toaster.

A preference on style is pure opinion and like hineyholes, EVERYONE has an opinion.
Raw numbers are factual. There's little to no dispute when it comes to the performance numbers on stock car vs. stock car.

What could you do with a 23,000 MS3 and another 5,000 in goodies? (Which would equal the 28,000 you're suggesting the GTi would cost.)

When my wife and I were considering our recent purchase, we had (FINALLY!) narrowed down our search to two cars: the GTi and the MS3. We test drove the GTi a couple of times while we waited for the '10 MS3's to hit the dealership lots. When they finally arrived, we went out and test-drove the MS3. The difference was so ridiculously apparent, that we bought the MS3 on the spot.

YMMV