Most of the regulars in this section understand that, we have quite a few posts devoted to the subject. I wouldn't drive in winter without winter tires anymore, and I sure as hell hate being on a snowy road with others thinking all-seasons are good enough. But to each his own.
Blizzard hitting Mid-Atlantic..CX5 is ready
- Thread starter jhu8
- Start date
That's impressive considering you were on the OEM all-season Toyo's!
How could this be? Our resident Jeep expert swears the Jeep AWD is the best in the business! Must have been a RWD model! (rlaugh)
How many miles have you got on those 19" Toyo's?
+3000 miles.
Run #3: THIS IS STRANGE!! After the blizzard, the roads are more or less cleared except the byroads. Now my car got stuck. Spinning, lurching, all 4 wheels turning - zilch! Amount of snow under the tires, about an inch. Bang in the middle of a road, had to stop and then this occurred. I think its because the snow might have got compacted and became ice? Dunno. Anyways, finally got out - CX-5 helped a lot. Very, very low speed (1 to 2 mph) 1st. gear and then I could move it. I am not sure here - as to what's the correct approach in such cases when the road in front is having a downwards incline and where I stopped the incline was deep towards the passenger side. Man, got scared. Same spot yesterday with tons of snow - no issues, same stop sign.
TCS is traction control system meant to aid in traction by reducing the speed of a spinning wheel.
DSC is dynamic stability control which is designed to minimize rollover risk and aid in general stability.
Nowadays they are somewhat synonymous and each system can aid in the vehicle's overall stability.
A better explanation can be found here http://www2.mazda.com/en/technology/safety/active_safety/dsc_tcs.html
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Yeah, all-seasons versus the frozen stuff, not a good combination. They may have been good in the fluffy stuff, but not on ice. There's reports of people getting stuck all over the place on plowed roads. I predict a big surge in the sales of snow tire and snow blowers, whatever is left.
no, it's not strange at all. Your AWD system is mediocre at best and your all season tires are total $hit in snow. The fact that you didn't get stuck initially was pure luck ....oh and usually fresh snow is very light and relatively "dry"...once it freezes over and worse - melts a bit and then freezes over, now we are talking serious $hit that your car is in no way equipped to deal with.
there is nothing magical to any of the awd systems ....you either spin all wheels or you don't. At the end of the day you need rubber that will transfer that torque to the road, period. Go find a local auto group that does ice trials on frozen lakes ....my understanding is that there is plenty events like that in NY ....put your cx 5 on snow/ice combination and than u will see what a beast of snow plow you got.
doubt it...people get into accidents because of all season tires ...like my friend did ...and still don't get it .....they will buy useless toys for their cars, they will pay yearly hundreds of dollars for mediocre detailing services, they will pay extra for better insurance....but they won't get snow tires. Than there is whole other group posting youtube video of their awesome AWD cars "plowing like tanks" through .......2 inches of snow. Something that any FWD on anything but purely bold tires and half decent driver would do.
Lack of perspective and experience.
Well, not to say "I told you so", but "I told you so".(toilet)
Bottom line? AWD is of limited value compared to winter tires. This is true even if you have a Jeep with a super duper Quadra-track IV extraordinaire AWD with all-season radials (as you witnessed yesterday in the fresh snow). AWD is no replacement for winter rubber.
It's usually best to pick a path that minimizes the sideways slope. Every situation is different but if you know you have all season radials, a few handfuls of sand/kitty litter/walnut shells can work wonders. But then you face the danger of driving around on slick roads with minimal traction of all-season radials. You can't apply the traction enhancers as your sliding down a hill at 40 mph. That's what winter rubber is for!
Thank you for the explanation. Helped me understand the difference between fluffy snow and packed wet snow.
I disagree. I believe after 3 rather intensive and exhaustive run, the AWD in CX-5 is superb, at least for snow and ice. Run #2 was 27 miles and then back under heavy snow. Car held up excellent, literally plowed thru the snow and hardly any slip with the CX-5 feeling very tightly controlled. Yes, in highways but I did have some rather steep ramps downwards and later upwards. All in all I am rather impressed with the AWD system.
I am not sure but I did feel, especially in some ramps the individual wheels were spiining and thus gaining control. Sometime rear passenger, sometime rear driver, etc., etc.
The only thing which stunned me a bit was the one I posted in Run #3, but now I understand. Furthermore I still don't get it why I could indeed move once I turned OFF my TCS. Anyways, back home now all good. In summary, I realize my experience would have been EVEN better and the slip I encountered in Run #3 would NOT have happened if I had snow tires. Got that.
Jeep - it's my neighbor's 5 houses down. He and I met today. His is a AWD or a 4WD (dunno the difference) and yes he has all-wheel tires, pretty new he said. Its Grand Cherokee.
True here, where I work people see my snow tires every year, they do the research and swear they're gonna get them next year. Well next year comes and it's "well, I made it all these years on all-seasons, we'll wait". But this storm was incredible, so I think it just may sway a few people.
Actually, thanks to you was able to move today. Somewhere you had mentioned to turn off the TCS. I did that and bingo in 1st. gear got out, climbed the incline. Did 1 improvisation, i.e. turned my steering wheel AWAY from the sideways incline.
Glad your friend is OK.
In the winter tires vs all season category, we were crossing the Cadcades on OR 58 last week in our X-Ice equipped Golf and weren't having any issues other than dealing with the under prepared drivers. One particularly annoying Subarau driver was splitting the 2 lanes in our direction, effectively blocking the passing lane. We ended up using some of the median to get by and soon lost sight of him in our mirrors. So in our case FWD with winter tires easily trumped one of the best AWD systems out there.
Your statement is half right and the other half demonstrates how little you know about the actual real world snow/ice performance of the CX-5 AWD. Because it's one of the best systems for driving on slick roads. Yes, other manufacturers use very similar systems but, when it get's really slick it takes finesse, and the Mazda AWD has loads of this! The only way it could be considered mediocre is it's not designed for high torque activities. Slippery roads, by definition, require gentle torque and finesse.
Aha, snow science! Fresh fallen snow is typically easy for tires to deal with and to understand why, it's necessary to get down to the microscopic realm. Freshly formed snow is composed of sharp-edged crystals. These crystals interlock as the snow piles up and give the snow sheer strength. The sheer strength will depend on atmospheric conditions as the snow formed. Over time, even if the temperatures stay below freezing, the sharp edged crystals become more rounded due to processes such as sublimation and condensation. Thus the sheer strength becomes reduced.
Now look at the rubber on a microscopic level. It resembles a sponge. Sharp edged snow crystals can poke into the microscopic voids in the rubber. Winter rubber has a huge advantage here (the "softness" of the rubber is a gross oversimplification). The aggressiveness of the tread is commonly over-rated. In fact, due to the relatively low sheer strength of snow crystals, it is actually MORE advantageous to have a fine, spidery tread pattern than a big, aggressive one.
Yeah, I see your point but that's more applicable to whether you get stuck or not. More important is how well the AWD and associated DSC (dynamic stability control) interfaces and how delicate of a hand the AWD has to feel out and maximize what little traction there is. This can not only get you unstuck but can avoid a deadly spin on glare ice. Some systems are too heavy-handed and too slow to be good under these potentially deadly situations. The Mazda is truly exceptional.
Excellent points. That really puts things into perspective!
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Absolutely, agreed. The major issue here might have been bad/scared/overly defensive driver ...and or smart driver who new the limitation of their all season tires....but all that being said. I will take FWD on winter tires before Subaru on all seasons anyday. Even better if it has LSD up front
I actually owned mazda 6 before subaru and me, my mazda and X ice 2 tires ...we did some crazy s*** in huge CO blizzard couple years back. Obviously AWD on proper rubber destroys FWD BUT ..... rubber before AWD system ....alwaysI find any electronic nannies to be impairment not a help, especially on a car that doesn't have permanently driven all 4. Good rubber and common sense usually is all you need in ANY slick road situation. If you do go little too optimistic into that tight turn or you hit a patch of ice I will put more trust into my skill and good couple years of learning how to drive on ice on frozen lakes of WI before I trust any electronics ,,,I don't care how much finesse they have. It takes a split second for mazda's AWD to kick in, then another split second for CPU to figure out what the hell is going on....it might be to late by then.... I much prefer instant response from good tires, subaru AWD and traction being always OFF in slippery conditions. A lot of times what will get you out of trouble IS slip and transfer of mass. Sometimes you just need to loose some of that momentum and potential energy to help tires catch traction again and drift through the turn..... I am by no means a rally driver but quoting one of the best drivers ever: " when in doubt >> press on" It's obviously referring to very different application and is very broad statement but moderate, constant application of gas pedal often does help on AWD car in emergency situation. My understanding is that TCS on any car other than maybe later Acuras will only apply brakes on the wheel that is spinning faster, simulating poorly an LSD system. I am sure it helps sometimes but it is no magic bullet and can actually prevent half decent driver from saving the day.
Absolutely, agreed. The major issue here might have been bad/scared/overly defensive driver ...and or smart driver who new the limitation of their all season tires....but all that being said. I will take FWD on winter tires before Subaru on all seasons anyday. Even better if it has LSD up front
I wouldnt the latest all seasons such as Michelin cross climate are rated highly.
http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-crossclimate
yeh ....I've been hearing this for past 10 years.....each new tire from Micheline is the one to rule them all....I wonder why they still produce winter tires than. If something is good for everything ......and it will stay that way for another couple years until nano technology and new hybrid materials are introduced in tire production. Until then, good old winter tire will do for me
