Best OEM replacement option Oil.

I don't think it's a bad idea for the oil valve, I just wouldn't risk losing possibly all my oil, and my engine for failed ball/check valve. But like you mentioned, some cars make it much easier. But I have replaced and engine for a customer that used one awhile ago. CXVille, as far as getting the filter off, I use the "big spin-and-get-outta-the-way" method once I feel I'm close to the end of the filter housing's threads. I usually don't get messy.


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Why? Because:
1) It is overpriced
2) There are better oils for less
What is wrong with getting a better oil for less?
Mazda oil is not synthetic. I would prefer to have a synthetic oil in my engine rather than a group III pretending to be "synthetic".
Moly? You want moly? There are oils with more moly in them if that's what you want.
I can get Redline 0-20 oil for $8.50 a qt. It is ester based and has more moly than mazda oil.
It is really dumb to assume that because it has mazda's name that that oil is the best. Car companies like to make a lot of $ off their parts and oil is no different.
I'd rather put my my $ into a better product, not into corp
And, if I couldn't redline at that price, I'd use whatever groupIII I could get for cheap with a rebate/coupon, providing that others have gotten good uoa on.
 
Why? Because:
1) It is overpriced
2) There are better oils for less
What is wrong with getting a better oil for less?
Mazda oil is not synthetic. I would prefer to have a synthetic oil in my engine rather than a group III pretending to be "synthetic".
Moly? You want moly? There are oils with more moly in them if that's what you want.
I can get Redline 0-20 oil for $8.50 a qt. It is ester based and has more moly than mazda oil.
It is really dumb to assume that because it has mazda's name that that oil is the best. Car companies like to make a lot of $ off their parts and oil is no different.
I'd rather put my my $ into a better product, not into corp
And, if I couldn't redline at that price, I'd use whatever groupIII I could get for cheap with a rebate/coupon, providing that others have gotten good uoa on.

Do you have any sourcing for the idea that Mazda 0-20 is "fake synthetic"? AFAIK, it's a group 5 full synthetic.

As far as "better for less", my dealer sells Mazda oil for $7.50/qt when they do the work, or $9 just for the oil (or a kit with 5 qts and a filter that amounts to a free filter). Over at BITCOG the Redline synth in a CX-5 had an objectively worse analysis at a 8k interval than the Mazda, which was basically exemplary.

Rather than figuring that the manufacture is jacking up prices on inferior goods, I could also assume that Mazda has a real interest in keeping their customers cars running well with good gas mileage. If they have the opportunity to formulate an engine oil that works exceptionally well with their engine design, why wouldn't they?

At any rate, I don't think it really makes sense to talk about "best oil" (outside of some fairly broad parameters) since it's always going to be about the best oil for a particular engine. For my money I'm going to assume Mazda has a pretty good idea about what works with their engines, particularly the SkyActiv engines.
 
Why then do a lot of the dealers not use Mazda oil? The dealer I go to uses castrol. I am sure we are not talking about warranty issues. How many of you go to a mazda dealer for tire replacement. If mazda knows best about there cars. Is one brand of brake fluid better than another? When you replaced brake fluid do you use mazda brand? The list of mazda brand can go on and on. There are many fine products that do not have mazda written on them. I guess use what you think is best, but for me mazda brand is not end all of all end all.
 
Well, I would say the specific characteristics of the oil in the high compression Skyactiv engine will have far greater bearing on vehicle life and gas milage than, say, brake fluid.

And it doesn't have to be "the be all and end all" to be particularly well suited to this particular engine. If you look at the virgin assay of Mazda oil vs. various other well thought of oils at BITOG you can see they are by no means identical at a given weight, with measured viscosity (among other things) varying by significant amounts. Again, my read of the 8k interval analysis in the Skyactiv engine suggests that the Mazda Oil held up better than other options. That doesn't mean it's "the best oil", just that it performs well in the engine it's intended for.

Given all that, and the fact that I can get the Mazda oil for just a few cents more (if that) than other well liked premium synthetics, it strikes me as merely prudent to do so. That's just me, everyone is free to use whatever they like. As far as why dealers might switch to something cheaper-- duh. Dealers do all kinds of stupid s*** to save money, doesn't mean it's a good idea or something Mazda corporate is advocating.
 
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I am looking at a bottle of the Mazda oil with Moly and it says "Full Synthetic". It is also rated GF-5 which a lot of the other synthetic oils are rated less.
 
Yep:

Idemitsu_-_Mazda_0W-20_Synthetic.jpg


I was mostly reacting to katman's allegation that the Mazda was "not synthetic" and "a group III pretending to be synthetic." I'm assuming he's thinking of a different Mazda branded oil since both of those things are objectively false.

I mean, everyone is certainly free to use whatever oil they like, but it's pointless to denigrate the Mazda branded stuff like it was some kind of phony ripoff. Pretty lengthy discussion over at BITOG, consensus seems to be that this is an excellent oil with a great profile competitively priced (if you can get it through a dealer and avoid shipping costs).
 
I order the Mazda branded 0W-20 with Moly from one of the dealers online who ships it. Then I bring it to my local dealer and they only charge me $15 labor to change the oil.
 
That doesn't stand for group 5, that stands for the ILSAC rating which is what the API-SN specification is based off of.

ILSAC GF-5
Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons and turbochargers, more stringent sludge control, improved fuel economy, enhanced emission control system compatibility, seal compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.

It's a standard, not an ingredient or a description of the base stock.

Any oil you see labeled as API-SN RC (resource conserving) will most likely pass the ILSAC GF-5 requirements as well.
 
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Do you have any sourcing for the idea that Mazda 0-20 is "fake synthetic"? AFAIK, it's a group 5 full synthetic.

As far as "better for less", my dealer sells Mazda oil for $7.50/qt when they do the work, or $9 just for the oil (or a kit with 5 qts and a filter that amounts to a free filter). Over at BITCOG the Redline synth in a CX-5 had an objectively worse analysis at a 8k interval than the Mazda, which was basically exemplary.

Rather than figuring that the manufacture is jacking up prices on inferior goods, I could also assume that Mazda has a real interest in keeping their customers cars running well with good gas mileage. If they have the opportunity to formulate an engine oil that works exceptionally well with their engine design, why wouldn't they?

At any rate, I don't think it really makes sense to talk about "best oil" (outside of some fairly broad parameters) since it's always going to be about the best oil for a particular engine. For my money I'm going to assume Mazda has a pretty good idea about what works with their engines, particularly the SkyActiv engines.

You have so many unfounded beliefs that your post is delusional!
Oil results?
Here's Mazda moly:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...92/Mazda_0w20_W/Moly_Oil,_2013_I4#Post3356592
Redline:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2358618
Short version- Mazda moly had 4x more iron, that's more wear and tear- yeah!

Mazda does not have an oil research unit; this oil was designed/manufactored out. Let's see, what other things do you believe in? Oh, that "Mazda has an interest in keeping their customers cars running well with good gas mileage. Really? Can you prove that? Can you also prove that using any other oil (including the group III fake syn oils) will cause a drop in mpg and engine longetivity?

And yes, it is a fake synthetic, that's why it won't hold its viscosity as well. It is fake! Real synthetic oil cost $9-$12 a qt at the whole sale level, to think that Mazda would bring in a real synthetic oil, sell it for a loss to the very, very small minority of people who change their oil and buy it from a dealer, is
delusional.
 
2 different cars, 2 different engines, AND 2 different drivers = ZERO comparison
the mazda didn't even have significant miles enough on it to be broken in fully yet so most of that is just break-in wear
 
Short version- Mazda moly had 4x more iron, that's more wear and tear- yeah!

Seriously???

I hope this is not what passes for rational analysis these days.

Are you really basing your conclusion using oil analysis from two different engines???

(wow)
 
You have so many unfounded beliefs that your post is delusional!
Oil results?
Here's Mazda moly:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...92/Mazda_0w20_W/Moly_Oil,_2013_I4#Post3356592
Redline:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2358618
Short version- Mazda moly had 4x more iron, that's more wear and tear- yeah!

As noted above, comparing oil performance in different engines with different milage isn't very informative.

Mazda does not have an oil research unit; this oil was designed/manufactored out. Let's see, what other things do you believe in? Oh, that "Mazda has an interest in keeping their customers cars running well with good gas mileage. Really? Can you prove that? Can you also prove that using any other oil (including the group III fake syn oils) will cause a drop in mpg and engine longevity?

I suppose we could posit that Mazda wants its cars to run poorly with poor gas milage, because...... oh, I dunno, they're idiots?

And yes, it is a fake synthetic, that's why it won't hold its viscosity as well. It is fake! Real synthetic oil cost $9-$12 a qt at the whole sale level, to think that Mazda would bring in a real synthetic oil, sell it for a loss to the very, very small minority of people who change their oil and buy it from a dealer, is
delusional.

For someone demanding "proof" that a car company would act in its own best interests by speccing fluids that perform well with the design, you seem pretty comfortable throwing around unsourced allegations. Can you show me an analysis that proves that the Mazda branded oil is "fake synthetic"? Moreover (and here we wander into one of the great pointless internet oil arguments), can you show me where this definition of "fake" has any bearing whatsoever on performance?
 
Is Motomaster formula1 0w20 pure synthetic? They are on sale at canadian tire and only 24.99 for 5 litres which is 50% cheaper than mobil1 or castrol. Of course, thats what made me curious about the quality. Can my fellow zoom zoomers throw some light on this?
 
As noted above, comparing oil performance in different engines with different milage isn't very informative.



"I suppose we could posit that Mazda wants its cars to run poorly with poor gas milage, because...... oh, I dunno, they're idiots?"

Are you saying that using ANY 0-20 oil on the market will cause a Mazda to run poorly and get poor gas mileage? Your sentence insinuates that. Got an oil that causes Mazda's to do as you just described?


For someone demanding "proof" that a car company would act in its own best interests by speccing fluids that perform well with the design, you seem pretty comfortable throwing around unsourced allegations. Can you show me an analysis that proves that the Mazda branded oil is "fake synthetic"? Moreover (and here we wander into one of the great pointless internet oil arguments), can you show me where this definition of "fake" has any bearing whatsoever on performance?

You might want to try educating yourself before spouting off nonsense. Years ago, Castrol was passing off hydrocracked dino oil as synthetic. Mobil sued as this fake synthetic cost less to make than real synthetic, plus didn't perform as well. The court ruled in Castrol's favor so with the you can't beat them/join them attitude, all the major "synthetics" are group III based, with maybe Mobil adding some group iv (but they won't say the amount).
Mazda is a for profit corporation and there is no way that they will sell oil below its cost. If they wanted to something for goodwill, they'd start with replacing cracked windshields for free, not blowing out group IV/V oil for below cost!
Mazda also doesn't have a team of tribologists as they are a car company, not an oil company. Real synthetic oil holds up better under high and resists sheering better. If you want to buy a Group III oil and dream that it is the best because a non existent team of Mazda tribologists formulated it up and it has the Mazda name on it, go for it.
You can get major brand group III oils like Mobil, Penzoil, Quakerstate, etc for less than Mazda moly with commonly available coupons and rebates, I have yet to see an oil uoa showing major wear from them or documented reports of decreases mpg.
For me, using a true synthetic means a greater chance that that 0-20 oil will, after 5,000, still be a 0-20 oil, not a 0-15 or 0-18 oil.
 
I got my GT AWD on a 36 month / 36k mile lease and coupons for 6 free oil changes. At 6-7.5k per oil change, I won't pay for a single oil change before surrendering the vehicle. Of course I'll take it to Mazda since they're paying for the oil changes. Actually, I know I merely pre-paid for them (doh).

My thought is by 2016 we'll have an efficient diesel CX-5 or equivalent in the US.
 
By the way, Walmart is the cheapest place to buy motor oil. Most major brand full synthetics are $25 for a 5 qt jug.
 
You might want to try educating yourself before spouting off nonsense.

That's rather abrasive considering that you still have not substantiated the claims you are making or provided a shred of evidence that the counter-claims provided are indeed nonsense (although you have been asked to do this multiple times).

Years ago, Castrol was passing off hydrocracked dino oil as synthetic. Mobil sued as this fake synthetic cost less to make than real synthetic, plus didn't perform as well. The court ruled in Castrol's favor so with the you can't beat them/join them attitude, all the major "synthetics" are group III based, with maybe Mobil adding some group iv (but they won't say the amount).

Courts don't take sides (ideally), they hear the evidence and make a ruling. In this case they ruled that Castrol had succeeded in transforming regular oil into synthetic because the molecular structure and performance of the finished product was good enough to carry the label "synthetic". And your engine only cares how an oil performs, not where it came from. But, for all we know, the very good oil analysis results may very well be due to a certain percentage of group IV/V base stock. Not that it matters what the oil started as when compared to it's actual performance.

Mazda is a for profit corporation and there is no way that they will sell oil below its cost. If they wanted to something for goodwill, they'd start with replacing cracked windshields for free, not blowing out group IV/V oil for below cost!

It sounds like your argument is that it is too inexpensive to be made exclusively from group IV/V base stocks.

But you have no idea whether a portion of it is from group IV/V base stocks?

Your original argument is that Mazda oil is over-priced for what it is but you are basing that on is it's price! Nice! Personally, I don't care what base stock it originated from, I care what it's performance characteristics are.

If you want to buy a Group III oil and dream that it is the best because a non existent team of Mazda tribologists formulated it up and it has the Mazda name on it, go for it.

Never once did I say I liked it because it has the Mazda brand name. It is actually made by a very modern and technologically advanced refiner in Japan, Idemitsu, not by Mazda. Of the Japanese refiners, only Nippon has more capacity in terms of volume.


I guess I don't buy your argument that it is too inexpensive to be any good, but too expensive to be worth the money.

We like facts (which you have been lacking) and we like the fact that the oil experts rate this oil very high (especially for the price).
 
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