glyph's Haltech E6X log...

[glyph]

what is this sequential you guys are talking about?
Couple questions:
1. is there an easy way to measure fuel pressure?
2. what method would I use to clean the injectors?

After a couple days driving, other things i have noticed:
1. My map is very rich in low boost, so I need to fix it
2. I found my exhaust leak
3. What I think is happening is, the oil gets pretty hot and doesn't cool down fast enough, so it gets thin enough to not produce much oil pressure at idle. I believe the issue is the amount of heat generated in the exhaust, and therefore the oil going through the turbo, is enough to overwhelm the current cooling abilities of my system. Would a heavier oil weight (I am using 10w-30) solve this? Or do I need to get some form of oil cooler? Or is there another way to combat this?

 

[glyph]

Is this the problem? I was reviewing my haltech's setup, and I found that I have the injectors set to Multipoint, vs Batch, Staging, or Sequential. Should I have sequential selected? Here is a picture of the dialog I have set up. I am including the fuel, ignition, and trigger setups.

Here's an excerpt from the haltech help:

Injection Mode
Choose the mode of injection to run for your engine.
o Sequential mode is the preferred mode wherever possible, which fires each injector individually at the correct time.
o Semi-Sequential fires half the required fuel on the intake stroke and the remaining half on the opposing half of the stroke. This is the preferred mode when only a crank home signal reference is available.
o Batch mode injection fires the injectors in two even groups. This is aimed at reducing fuel rail pressure fluctuations. This mode of injection does not require any home or reference signal to operate. The angle of injection is not defined, and the injection angle map is not used. The frequency of injection is defined by the Ignition Divide By parameter. Batch mode is not available for engines with odd numbers of cylinders. Batch mode is not available for Motronic triggers.
o Multipoint mode injection is the most basic form of injection that fires all injectors simultaneously. This mode of injection does not require any home or reference signal to operate. The angle of injection is not defined, and the injection angle map is not used. The frequency of injection is defined by the Ignition Divide By parameter.

The part that gets my attention is it says the multipoint ignores the injection angle map...

 

[TurfBurn]

yeah select sequential... your oil should be fine... I only get about 10 psi at idle... I run 10W40 usually.

 

[MPNick]

Is this the problem? I was reviewing my haltech's setup, and I found that I have the injectors set to Multipoint, vs Batch, Staging, or Sequential. Should I have sequential selected? Here is a picture of the dialog I have set up. I am including the fuel, ignition, and trigger setups.

Here's an excerpt from the haltech help:


The part that gets my attention is it says the multipoint ignores the injection angle map...

If you are not running a camshaft sensor you cannot use sequential. If you do not have the cam sensor use batch.

 

[glyph]

The problem with the low oil pressure, is that the engine is actually quite warm, and continues to get warm when left idling, and that is with 90 degree temperatures.

Nick, the description for batch says its not available for motronic triggers.

 

[TurfBurn]

The haltech's do use the cam sensor if I remember right..

 

[glyph]

There is a sensor that I ran to the wire that goes down the trigger sensor, and unless there is another sensor they borrow from the car or something, I don't think so. I will ask Juan at HiBoost, since I got the kit from him. (sending him a PM)

 

[MPNick]

The problem with the low oil pressure, is that the engine is actually quite warm, and continues to get warm when left idling, and that is with 90 degree temperatures.

Nick, the description for batch says its not available for motronic triggers.

Did you have to add a new crankshaft sensor and pick up for the install?


Are you talking oil temps or water temps. Thinner oil gets you cooler oil and bearing temps.

 

[glyph]

no, I just soldered the wire to the crank sensor.

I was thinking the oil temps get higher, and therefore the oil gets thinner, but I forgot that oil's viscosity increases with temperature. I am thinking the oil pressure issue will be resolved when I get my idle evened out.

I also realized today that I didn't use distilled water when I mixed the coolant, like a schmuck. So I will be flushing and refilling tomorrow.

My other issue is the cruise control doesn't work, which I use on a regular basis. Hopefully that will be an easy fix.

I loosened the bolt on the BOV, and that seemed to free up the engine. I had tightened it and the engine seemed to be choking on the boost, so I backed it out. However, I think I went a touch too far, so I will be able to fix that tonight, I believe. It's hard to get that exactly where it should be with no way of knowing exactly what the bolt position means...

 

[glyph]

I took it back to the dyno today, and with the BOV adjustments, I got it up to 130hp with tweaking of the BOV. That's with 85% humidity and about 85 degrees. Still not the gains I am looking for.

What I saw this time, like last time, is that any ignition changes no longer seem to affect the AFR curve. I bumped up the injection time to over 16ms in the 4500-5500rpm, and I am still running lean (13.0-13.7). It just appears that as the air comes in, the fuel can't keep up. However, it seems to suddenly catch up around the 6200 rpm mark and suddenly go rich. I will post pics of the graph later. Just found lice in the kids hair.... grubby neighbor's kids, I bet...

 

[TurfBurn]

I took it back to the dyno today, and with the BOV adjustments, I got it up to 130hp with tweaking of the BOV. That's with 85% humidity and about 85 degrees. Still not the gains I am looking for.

What I saw this time, like last time, is that any ignition changes no longer seem to affect the AFR curve. I bumped up the injection time to over 16ms in the 4500-5500rpm, and I am still running lean (13.0-13.7). It just appears that as the air comes in, the fuel can't keep up. However, it seems to suddenly catch up around the 6200 rpm mark and suddenly go rich. I will post pics of the graph later. Just found lice in the kids hair.... grubby neighbor's kids, I bet...

Dude you have some serious other issues... your injector times should be NOWHERE near those numbers.. you should peak around 8 ms... after that your injectors are maxed out... that is why you are getting nowhere... Something is definitely up... what size injectors and what boost?

Later,

Steve

 

[TurfBurn]

Here is some injector stuff that may help for you
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1802016

 

[HiBoost TS]

Glyph,

Use the ignition map that I sent you. That works in all proteges with the stock sensor. The maps you show done by the tuner are very weird.

The haltech does not work with the stock cam sensor, so select multipoint.

I also sent you a fuel map for the 2.0 FS engine. That just needs to be adjusted a little and you are set.

Set your A/F target at around 12.2 for boost up to 5 or 6 psi and 11.8 above 8 psi. This will give you safety and good performance.

13.7 at idle and cruising makes good millage.

Juan

 

[glyph]

Dude you have some serious other issues... your injector times should be NOWHERE near those numbers.. you should peak around 8 ms... after that your injectors are maxed out... that is why you are getting nowhere... Something is definitely up... what size injectors and what boost?

Later,

Steve

stock injectors, between 4 and 5 psi of boost.

 

[glyph]

Glyph,

Use the ignition map that I sent you. That works in all proteges with the stock sensor. The maps you show done by the tuner are very weird.

The haltech does not work with the stock cam sensor, so select multipoint.

I also sent you a fuel map for the 2.0 FS engine. That just needs to be adjusted a little and you are set.

Set your A/F target at around 12.2 for boost up to 5 or 6 psi and 11.8 above 8 psi. This will give you safety and good performance.

13.7 at idle and cruising makes good millage.

Juan

Juan! welcome! I am limiting to 4-5psi of boost for now. I don't have any maps from you. How did you send these maps?

I have been shooting for 12.2, but I cannot get there. That's why we tried continually increasing fuel and timing. Once it was clear we maxed out the fuel, we kept going a bit just to see if we could get anything, but no results. The higher timing kept yielding more power and lower temps, so we kept going until the power dropped off. That being said, this guy isn't terribly up on turbos and engine management. I am going to swing by the other shop here, but I only have these two to choose from in the area. Hopefully there will be more in NJ.

I do have multipoint selected. Have you looked at the map I uploaded?

Here is the one I am running now, and the two I plan on checking out tomorrow.

I have a fuel pressure gauge on the way, should be here on Thursday, and I will see what kind of pressure my pump is putting out. Apparently the filter is integrated into the pump, and the pump is $300 at the dealer.

 

[glyph]

Here are the dyno scans:

These scans are kind of hard to read. The first dyno I did only up to 4500 rpm at first because I knew things were out of wack. Hence the limited 55hp. By the end of the day, was up to 125.

The second dyno, a week later, a little more tweaking with the fuel, and adjusting the BOV, and got 5 more hp. However, at the dyno, messing with the fuel again just resulted in the drop of power, so I went to pre-dyno settings. As you can see though, the AFR curve is stuck there. I can't seem to get it rich where it's lean. The weird thing is that it suddenly gets rich again near redline. Does the VICS open up around 4500 (explaining the increase in lean-ness) and then close again around 6000 rpm? (explaining the sudden richness)

I believe my newer maps will help reduce the sudden richness at low boost (which is mostly a result of the ramping up of the fuel in boost to counter those lean conditions). I'll be driving the MODERATE map around tomorrow and watching the AFR gauge.

 

[TurfBurn]

My car also goes rich up around 6K but I've been able to dial that out... VICS opens around 4500 usually yes... so that could be your thing there...

your injector times are too long... so you need to figure out what is going on there.. something is fishy...

 

[glyph]

I am cutting the times back quite a bit, and am getting virtually no difference in performance. In my boost range from 0-7psi (mine is still limited to 5 psi), but the range of injector times is now zero boost, zero psi 5.4ms, and up to 5psi at 5500 psi is 10ms. It I have cut on just how rich I get at low boost, but I still have the same problems with being lean as the rpms go up. I also discovered I have 2 brown injectors, and 2 blue injectors, and 2 of them are in the wrong place. Oops. I don't think that would account for my problems, though. I'll fix them in the morning and see where we're at after that.

Also, my exhaust leak goes away as the engine heats up.

One more thing, according to the haltech software, my inj duty cycles never exceed 60%.

I know the 1.8 has different cams than the 2.0 (different part numbers) but I don't think that would account for this much of a difference. It could be I have a configuration issue. Is anyone looking at my maps to see if there are funny numbers in there?

 

[glyph]

Welp, it turns out I have my injectors in the right place.

 

[glyph]

I installed the fuel pressure gauge, and I am getting a steady max of 330kPa or 48 PSI on the fuel pressure. According to the service manual, I should be getting 450-630kPa, or 64-92 psi. I ordered a new regulator today, hopefully that will be it. $80 and on top of the engine instead of the $300 and under the seat labor of the fuel pump. Stupid filters are part of the pump apparently, and I cannot get them separately. Anyone have any better ideas on aftermarket pumps with separate fuel filters instead of dealing with this again in the future?