2015 plans
- Thread starter CorkSport
- Start date
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- 2012 Touring MT
Well my initial plans were to improve the driver (in the process..never ends),upgrade the compression on my front coilovers (checked) , getting a second set of lightweight wheels (checked), new tranny fluid (checked),, longer wheel studs, (coming) and new tires (waiting for Toyo, probably trying Bridgestones).
But I also I had to fix that ugly cut that was always cover with duck tape, welll I partially fixed it but the color naver came right so I started experimenting and researching and got this..... probably I got a little carried away, but if I can pull it off it should look nice.........................
Andres
But I also I had to fix that ugly cut that was always cover with duck tape, welll I partially fixed it but the color naver came right so I started experimenting and researching and got this..... probably I got a little carried away, but if I can pull it off it should look nice.........................
Andres
shyattmedic
Member
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- 2014 mazda2 sport
SCCA RallyCross running the NEDIV National Challenge Series( 2 events completed, 5 to go holding onto 3rd place), WDCR Series and the 2015 RallyCross National Championship in Iowa. Classed in Stock Front where stock means stock!
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- 2012 Touring MT
Wheels are getting here thursday , waiting on the studs and tires $$$. Seems like small list next to the one of the things already done. Did you see the graphics? planning on making it into a track car after Nationals.
Andres
deadlydave
Member
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- '13 Mazda 2
1st local points auto-x is on the books...neither car was really ready, so I took the less-unprepared Mazda2. The car is fun, and is rotating nicely with only the CS rear shocks set to 3 and my ghetto rear torsion beam mod. Everything else but tires and wheels are stock. Left traction control on all day like a bonehead, but I don't think it really hampered me as I never really got in the groove on any of my runs. The course was very complex--half my runs were off. There's only one other FSP competitor but he got bumped to the new 'Pro' class our region has. He's in a properly prepped BMW 318ti, and put down a 37.419 versus my "amateur" 40.771. I can't wait to get the full CS setup under the car and see what it will do. There's sonic turbo there with some mods running in STF, but he's running more boost, so I'm going to try to convince him to play with me in FSP.
Found out I ended up winning a prize for 1st in the (thin) Street Tire class last year, and though I've been doing autoX for a while, was not drafted into the Pro class. Probably due to a lack of talent + switching cars for this season. (pow)
Found out I ended up winning a prize for 1st in the (thin) Street Tire class last year, and though I've been doing autoX for a while, was not drafted into the Pro class. Probably due to a lack of talent + switching cars for this season. (pow)
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- 2012 Touring MT
You style on graphics is different than mine
Will you just being doing track days or door to door racing?
Track days. Another option might be sell it as a B-spec project. With the new paint job , not everybody will buy it.
Andres
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- 2012 Mazda2 Touring 5sp, 1989 Rx7 GTUs Turbo, 2012 Yamaha FZ8
the design scheme is nice....much nicer if it was more glossy 
I actually like it.
I actually like it.
Track day car? Sell it? Huh? It's a set of shocks and comfy seats away from being a Tri use car..(daily driven, autox and track)...Why sell it, you drove my car. It's heavier but gets the job done just fine. And that was with me in it also. You never got to take it out without me. this car is awesome, I know you were disappointed in the let down of last weekend, but sometimes s*** just breaks. I have the video, it's not pretty.Track days. Another option might be sell it as a B-spec project. With the new paint job , not everybody will buy it.
Andres
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- 2012 Touring MT
I gets the job done I know, I did it last Sept. This year things are different with the new cars in the class... not sure if I want to battle for third.
Andres
Andres
Don't give up hope yet, let's see how this plays out. Don't let 2 big block cars destroy your program. We know they are overpowered and out class us, but at some point it will be addressed. We just have to be careful on how the letters are worded. The current trend is open and fast courses so we don't stand a chance. If the courses get a little tighter and are more transition intensive, might be a different story (Think WRX in STX).
Jeff
So....this was my post in May ^ and here we are a week after Nationals all saying, " Wow, those K series cars are fast". In my opinion, too fast for STF but it's still open for discussion.
If you plan on running STF for 2016, do yourself a favor and look into all the threads scattered all over the interweb regarding the RSX and the Civic SI in STF. The SEB is looking for our collective opinions regarding the shape of this relatively new class for next year. Write a letter, don't take my opinions ,make your own, and write in. Otherwise we'll all be sitting here next year at this time wondering why there's no real place for low HP fun to drive FWD cars.
If you plan on running STF for 2016, do yourself a favor and look into all the threads scattered all over the interweb regarding the RSX and the Civic SI in STF. The SEB is looking for our collective opinions regarding the shape of this relatively new class for next year. Write a letter, don't take my opinions ,make your own, and write in. Otherwise we'll all be sitting here next year at this time wondering why there's no real place for low HP fun to drive FWD cars.
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Why do you think the K series cars are too fast for STF, Jeff?
I am not familiar with any of the drivers in the class, and I am sure some alien driving factors was involved. Based on the videos and results that I've seen, it seems to me that the East course is more of a power course, while the West course was more balanced. So naturally, any of the lower powered vehicles is already at a disadvantage since they are almost guaranteed to lose 1/2 of the race. When something like that happens, I'd say it isn't really a vehicle classing issue -- rather, I see it as a course design issue.
Also, seeing that an R18 Civic has taken 3rd place in STF, it makes me think that the Mazda2 is indeed classified correctly. I'm not saying I can drive faster in my 2 than that particular Civic driven by Chris. I'm just saying that I am convinced the Mazda2 is a faster car than the R18 Civic in most autox courses.
I am not familiar with any of the drivers in the class, and I am sure some alien driving factors was involved. Based on the videos and results that I've seen, it seems to me that the East course is more of a power course, while the West course was more balanced. So naturally, any of the lower powered vehicles is already at a disadvantage since they are almost guaranteed to lose 1/2 of the race. When something like that happens, I'd say it isn't really a vehicle classing issue -- rather, I see it as a course design issue.
Also, seeing that an R18 Civic has taken 3rd place in STF, it makes me think that the Mazda2 is indeed classified correctly. I'm not saying I can drive faster in my 2 than that particular Civic driven by Chris. I'm just saying that I am convinced the Mazda2 is a faster car than the R18 Civic in most autox courses.
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- 2012 Touring MT
Those Honda powered cars are indeed really strong for the class. The only way to balance the difference with our cars besides good driving, is to gain power and and extreme suspension setup that could make undriveable on the streets. According to Jeff we need to get to 140 whp. and weight close to 2100. Not sure if 140 is a resllistic goal, but I am trying everything, so far before tuning and new headers I am at + _ 127 whp. Weight wise I am already close to 2100.
So I think there is potential, we just need to push the envelope and see. I hope to be done with upgrades brfore Dixie and see how thr car stands against new comers.
Andres
When Andy Hollis won the STF inaugural year, it seems to me that his 2's weight was just a hair below the 2100 mark:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/mazda2-thread/46371/page12/
(see 5th post). I cannot find how much power Hollis' STF class winner was pushing, but knowing how he approaches this type of thing, you know he didn't leave any stone unturned. Gaining 40hp over stock from an NA setup seems downright impossible though.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/mazda2-thread/46371/page12/
(see 5th post). I cannot find how much power Hollis' STF class winner was pushing, but knowing how he approaches this type of thing, you know he didn't leave any stone unturned. Gaining 40hp over stock from an NA setup seems downright impossible though.
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- 2012 Touring MT
I think he was at 103HP max. no gains from headers, just Injen CAI and some tune. He is amazing driver. His project was never completed, a lot of things to be done where he left...
Stock at the crank is 100 hp ? Well I will say 140 hp at the crank is not impossible if I am already at 127 whp, what is the calculated HP loss to the crank? 12% - 15% ? ... Do the math..
Andres
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It comes down to a power to weight balance between chassis and how well they can out it down. RSXS can come down to around 2600lb and make (proven) 200whp. The Civic Si makes north of 160whp and gets down around 2400lb. The 2 is not close. We'd need 140whp at 2100lb to be even on math alone. As for the argument of the Mazda being a better handling car; The Civic Si and the RSXs (both) have poor rear suspension geometry, this is easily fixed with some camber and toe in removed and a ton (well half ton) of rear spring weight. The 2 rear suspension can not be adjusted since it's a fixed beam. No camber adjustment no toe adjustment ( without losing abs).
Getting from point a to point b is advantage HP all the way. Getting out of tight digs, advantage HP. Slaloms, advantage Mazda. Faster sweepers advantage HP.
See where this went? I have a Honda background. I ran these 2 cars when they were new and followed them through the tuning years. The K motors are very underrated and under tuned from the factory. Unleashed, they are awesome. As for the 8th gen Civic. It's 140hp (crank) stock and 2460 in race trim stock. I used to have one of these also. Tuning helps a bunch although I don't know exactly what Chris made, I'm guessing it's in the 140whp range. I'd guess he was right around the 2400 mark since it was basically all in stock trim. All 3 of these cars have a lower CG, are wider and have just as much tire as we do. All have better gearing in 2nd and more torque.
Should I go on? But please don't take anything away from the drivers. David, Michael and Chris are all at the top of the sport; any car, any day, any class. Add a great driver to a well prepared car and it's a recipe for success.
Thank you for sharing your analysis with us, Jeff. I appreciate the thoroughness and insights. I do have a couple of questions as well as a few points of discussions though.
In full prep STF trim, how much power is our car capable of producing?
As far as the advantages / disadvantages are concerned, I agree with most of your assessment -- except for the sweeper bit. The way I see it is, sweeper performance is pretty much a matter of road holding capabilities -- ie. lateral grip. So if we are looking at the weight-to-tire-width ratio, the 2 has a noticeable advantage over the RSX-S and EP3, even though the 2 is using a 205 tire while the RSX-S and EP3 uses 225. Coming out of the sweeper, if it leads to an acceleration zone, then the sweeper exit would favour the more powerful cars. However, if the sweeper leads to something else -- eg. something tighter (via a decreasing radius turn, or transitions into another sweeper, then the advantage stays with the Mazda2. So collectively, I'd say the 2 has a very slight advantage in the sweeper category.
Additionally, when you mentioned the lower CG and the wider bits, I'd have to point out you are neglecting the weight advantage of the 2. Furthermore, as a corollary to the lighter weight, braking should also be an advantage in our court -- but this particular advantage isn't really all that useful in an autox setting. Power and handling are far more important.
I am not disagreeing that the RSX-S (and quite likely the EP3 as well) is a superior STF car than the 2. It's just that I don't think they are too fast for the class in the overall scheme of things. If we are dealing with a power course, then yes, our 2 will have our a$$es handed back to us. But in a more balanced course, we are only given a slight disadvantage.
In full prep STF trim, how much power is our car capable of producing?
As far as the advantages / disadvantages are concerned, I agree with most of your assessment -- except for the sweeper bit. The way I see it is, sweeper performance is pretty much a matter of road holding capabilities -- ie. lateral grip. So if we are looking at the weight-to-tire-width ratio, the 2 has a noticeable advantage over the RSX-S and EP3, even though the 2 is using a 205 tire while the RSX-S and EP3 uses 225. Coming out of the sweeper, if it leads to an acceleration zone, then the sweeper exit would favour the more powerful cars. However, if the sweeper leads to something else -- eg. something tighter (via a decreasing radius turn, or transitions into another sweeper, then the advantage stays with the Mazda2. So collectively, I'd say the 2 has a very slight advantage in the sweeper category.
Additionally, when you mentioned the lower CG and the wider bits, I'd have to point out you are neglecting the weight advantage of the 2. Furthermore, as a corollary to the lighter weight, braking should also be an advantage in our court -- but this particular advantage isn't really all that useful in an autox setting. Power and handling are far more important.
I am not disagreeing that the RSX-S (and quite likely the EP3 as well) is a superior STF car than the 2. It's just that I don't think they are too fast for the class in the overall scheme of things. If we are dealing with a power course, then yes, our 2 will have our a$$es handed back to us. But in a more balanced course, we are only given a slight disadvantage.
I guess many share your opinion as to the RSX being too fast for the class since my letter and comments to remove them all from STF was not founded. I see your point, but have you run an STF 2 at an event? I see from your profile pic you have one in stock form, but not sure if it's an old pic or not. My build is a 90% build. When I say 90%, I mean I haven't spent every dime on power mods (on the fence about the current crop of headers available), I'm unwilling to remove every ounce out of the vehicle. I drive this every day, I like my cushy seats and my steering wheel not to give me wrist tendinitis while I'm on my way to work. I drive 15 miles round trip so the 700# front springs aren't terrible when matched with the right shock valving. I have pretty close to the lightest wheel out there you'd want to own. Sure the SSRs are lighter (3lbs each), but at triple the cost, not worth it (to me). Some have said I built a soft car and can't b**** until I've explored every loophole and dug in every crevic trying to get every ounce out of this car. Here's my counter point. Hypothetically let's build the STF max Mazda 2.
It weighs 2100 lbs (as this is as light as I've seen any get close to)
It has a custom spec'd coilover suspension with 700-850 front springs and 500-650 rears with a giant Rear Sway bar.
It has the class minimum weight seats
It has every poly mount you can buy and or make for it
It has shims in the rear hubs for toe and camber adjustment (and NO ABS at this point)
It is lowered to get 2-3" of shock travel and has variable rate bumps stops.
It has a super light side or center mount dump exhaust
It has a (yet to be made) header that produces favorable HP gains and torque
It has a SRI intake
It has a full tune to take complete advantage of these bolt ons
It has the class maximum tolerances of machining done to both head and block
It has a very light 38 offset 7.5" wide custom made wheel
It has (insert tire of your choice here but we all know which one is best)
It makes somewhere around 140whp
Then and only then does it have a chance, although even at 140whp and 2100lbs, it's still not at the HP/LB ratio the current Top Runners are at.
Ok so,I've listed it all, and here's the kicker
It has a $10,000 price tag in addition to buying the car
It CAN NOT be driven everyday as its too low, too stiff, and too loud
still won't come out of slower corners, still has a solid tree trunk rear suspension, still has a high CG, still has a tall 2nd gear but still slaloms excellent whence you stop the car from pushing under throttle getting into and out of the slalom.
So you have a $18,000 used Mazda 2 that's is now 100% built and In my opinion it does not live up to the spirit of the Street Touring rules in that it's not a "driver". Sure it could, but would you want to.
In contrast, the RSX needs wheels, tires, Decent suspension with 1100 rear springs, rear bar and a decent set of seats (if you choose because the RSX stock seats are fantastic) proven header, proven intake and a great tune. This car will win every time and cost you less then $10,000 total. The 8th gen Civic formula is the same except there is no header option for it since the head and manifold are both cast together.
This is a car you wouldn't want to drive everyday either. But it would definitely win always. Driver to driver
To me that's not class parity at all. When extraneous measures are needed to be competitive, that's when it's time to re evaluate. Thats why I wrote what I wrote to the SEB.
It weighs 2100 lbs (as this is as light as I've seen any get close to)
It has a custom spec'd coilover suspension with 700-850 front springs and 500-650 rears with a giant Rear Sway bar.
It has the class minimum weight seats
It has every poly mount you can buy and or make for it
It has shims in the rear hubs for toe and camber adjustment (and NO ABS at this point)
It is lowered to get 2-3" of shock travel and has variable rate bumps stops.
It has a super light side or center mount dump exhaust
It has a (yet to be made) header that produces favorable HP gains and torque
It has a SRI intake
It has a full tune to take complete advantage of these bolt ons
It has the class maximum tolerances of machining done to both head and block
It has a very light 38 offset 7.5" wide custom made wheel
It has (insert tire of your choice here but we all know which one is best)
It makes somewhere around 140whp
Then and only then does it have a chance, although even at 140whp and 2100lbs, it's still not at the HP/LB ratio the current Top Runners are at.
Ok so,I've listed it all, and here's the kicker
It has a $10,000 price tag in addition to buying the car
It CAN NOT be driven everyday as its too low, too stiff, and too loud
still won't come out of slower corners, still has a solid tree trunk rear suspension, still has a high CG, still has a tall 2nd gear but still slaloms excellent whence you stop the car from pushing under throttle getting into and out of the slalom.
So you have a $18,000 used Mazda 2 that's is now 100% built and In my opinion it does not live up to the spirit of the Street Touring rules in that it's not a "driver". Sure it could, but would you want to.
In contrast, the RSX needs wheels, tires, Decent suspension with 1100 rear springs, rear bar and a decent set of seats (if you choose because the RSX stock seats are fantastic) proven header, proven intake and a great tune. This car will win every time and cost you less then $10,000 total. The 8th gen Civic formula is the same except there is no header option for it since the head and manifold are both cast together.
This is a car you wouldn't want to drive everyday either. But it would definitely win always. Driver to driver
To me that's not class parity at all. When extraneous measures are needed to be competitive, that's when it's time to re evaluate. Thats why I wrote what I wrote to the SEB.
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