WTF is wrong with our motors?

[katsi]

Thing is, Ive beat the s*** out of my car, Hate if you want but im a firm ...VERY firm believer that cars should be driven to their limits, I always seek the maximum potential for a vehicle and so my standards are always high. Its a personal problem, but it is the way i am, Thats just the way god wired me.

I respect the car so damn much in every single aspect but the power output, This little pathetic 2l motor can take a beating. And maybe the horrible small power output is why. 2l to work with and almost nothing being produced = very small chances of things breaking...Guess it makes sense. Its very "economical".

I just hoped a car that handles like an evo, would be along the lines of doing more than trying to keep up with one.


I dunno..Maybe im just fed up with N/A cars and need to go Turbo, I do love boost...its a scary realm though.

Anyway, like i said, Im not going to own this car in a month so im picking it apart.

Everyones 2 cents was acknowledged and appreciated.

 

[MaDz]

Umm I think the guy was asking about the 2.0L engine making only 98 whp while I guess other 2.0L engines from other car makers pull more whp with their equivalent 2.0l engine.... which is interesting! bump for more info on the real question.

 

[magnumP5]

Guys, it's the factory tune that makes these cars the way they are - not the engine so much. The actual block is pretty good minus the weak rods but that really isn't an issue with what you are talking about. However, when you take a decent block and put crappy intake manifolds and exhaust manifolds on it, couple that with a Nazi-esque ECU then you have the Protege FSDE. Hondas are the way they are (especially the older models) because their ECUs aren't as crabby as the Mazdas and Honda engines are generally more high-strung to begin with. With Mazda, the ECU will learn around most basic N/A mods within 500 miles - that's why those basic N/A mods do little as most people complain. With Hondas, in which the older models did not utilize MAFs but rather just a MAP sensor it is easier to get more out of mods because as long as the intake pressure is ok the ECU thinks it's fine. That's why Hondas respond to mods so well - they're simpler. I will put my turbo P5 against any similarly modded Honda anyday - straight line or twisties.

 

[Salmon_Rob]

thats how the first gen was (like a honda, where mods make a difference) that junk was fast with i/h/e/cams/new intake mani/new vaf/p and p/piggy back/etc. faster than msps/rx8s fast

 

[Ki||ian]

So pretty much if you go the N/A route, you wont see much of a gain unless you replace the ECU and tune it? I know a new ECU and tune on any vehicle with give you improvements because car makers put in a safety buffer in their tunes but when Mazda puts in an ECU that will "learn" around a mod when their moto is "Zoom Zoom" is kind of stupid.

Every car maker out there puts that safety buffer in their vehicles because they want their cars to have that reliability factor for the general consumer. About the only car that I can think of that comes with an engine tuned to almost its limit from the factory is the Honda S2000.

I KNOW "Zoom Zoom" is ment to define the fun factor in Mazdas but to use such an anti-mod ECU is just plain dumb.

 

[njaremka]

its been said before - if you're looking for power, mazda's are NOT the place to go. mazda's are all about balance - balance between all the systems. all you have to do is drive one, and either you get it or you don't.

my buddy bought a neon srt-4 becuase he wanted the power. however, they handle like crap, even with the acr package. all he does is complain about the handling, and the interior, and how much he misses his protege which had 1/3 the power of that thing.

 

[rednecks_r_us]

I want to get a sticker made up for my front window that reads.

It's a ZOOM-ZOOM thing, You wouldn't understand.

 

[FlyinHawaiian]

Alright folks, we've established the weaknesses of the FSDE as to being the crap-tuned ECU and the weak rods, so here's the million dollar question:

How do you get around the ECU issue? In my case, the MP3 unit will not work since my ECU was still built in Hiroshima, Japan (a la 1.8L FP style). From what I have been told, the pins won't line up (or something). What are my other options because I am in disparate need of a tune. the SAFC IIs won't work because of Hitler living in the ECU (unless mine is different for some reason) and the only other options I've been told about are the SAFC Neo-Gens or go standalone. In the latter case, I don't have a spare $1k laying around for the box/tune.

My motor is ready for the tune, and is running pretty lean because of the lack of one. I'd like to take full advantage of my extensive engine mods and put a little more zoom-zoom back under the bonnet.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[evilmonkeyMSP]

sadly i believe because of our ECUs "adaptability" to most tuning products the only real way to go is standalone...

 

[magnumP5]

Emanage maybe? You'd have to get the extras like a voltage clamp (that's what keeps the ECU from learning around it) and you'd have to know the ECU pin locations yourself but it might work. Similarly even though you don't have the 2.0L ECU like the '01-'03 Proteges the Splitsecond ECU might work - again you'd have to know which wire was where. Sorry I can be more positive but it really doesn't seem like you have many choices.

 

[MakeMeGoFast]

Buy this book and read it at least 10 time cover to cover,https://www.amazon.com (commissions earned)

Then look into this Megasquirt
its a very good DIY sysytem, which is why i also recommended the book. Is half the price of other systems. Alot of people swear by it.

 

[FlyinHawaiian]

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of... Here's my mods list to the engine and maybe you can point me in the right direction:

2.0L Block / Crank
.020 over bore
9.5:1 forged lightweight pistons (CP I believe)
forged rods
ported intake / exhaust runners in the head
ported intake manifold
Thunder header
CAI
2.5" catless exhaust (1 resonator, dynomax muffler)

I have a J-Spec intake cam sitting at home, but don't want to put it in (and buy an exhaust cam) before I can be sure I can tune the engine... all those mods and no tune has led me to some problems that I would like to not exacerbate.

I'm hoping that with all of those mods and a good tune, I can hit 150bhp. Am I being too optimistic? What is a good, reliable, easy-to-tune standalone as well?

Thanks again,

Jeff

EDIT: Saw your ^^ post after I posted mine... I'll check both of those out...

 

[TheMAN]

Remember the FS-DE is a 25 year old design.

where did you hear that bulls*** from? the very first FS came out in 1993 for the 626/MX-6! it did NOT exist before then
it's a 14 year old engine, NOT 25 years old

 

[aMaff]

either way, it's old.

 

[TheMAN]

but it's still NOT a truck motor

 

[tonybonekhang]

why would you blame ford? they had nothing at all to do with the protege except for the physical ecu (not the programming at all, just the box)

Because what we are talking about is "crap" and it's easy to blame it on Ford just because...well, it's ford. The little intervention they had with the escorts is more than reason enough to blame.

 

[pasadena_commut]

Then look into this Megasquirt
its a very good DIY sysytem, which is why i also recommended the book.

The P5 has enough power for my needs. I just wish the torque converter clutch would engage in 3rd as well as 4th. I drive mostly in the city between 25 and 35 mph and the torque converter doesn't lock in that range, so the automatic wastes a lot of gas pushing fluid around the transmission at those speeds. My wallet would have appreciated it if the AT controller was bright enough to lock the TC when the car was driving along at a more or less steady 30 mph. I can't blame the motor if the transmission doesn't efficiently transmit power.

Having the AT lock in 3rd isn't rocket science, a lot of cars do that. Allison makes an AT for trucks that locks in every gear except first. If I'm reading it right it looks like that transmission controller keeps the TC locked even during shifts. A speed shifting AT controller, now that's rocket science. See the Tow/Haul feature here:

http://media.gm.com/division/gmc/products/GMC_transmissions_m74features.html

 

[Ki||ian]

Wait a sec.... did the Ford Escort GT and LXE have the same engine as the Protege??

If so, I used to rock a 93 Escort LXE which had the same engine as the GT back when I was in high school. Guess I have been rolling around on the FS-DE for a while!

 

[aMaff]

To my understanding, the early 90s ford escort GTs had the Mazda BP 1.8L, not the FS. Same with the Mercury Tracer LTS and the Protege LX.

 

[Ki||ian]

To my understanding, the early 90s ford escort GTs had the Mazda BP 1.8L, not the FS. Same with the Mercury Tracer LTS and the Protege LX.

Oooo. You are indeed correct. I do remember the Escort came with either a Ford made 1.9L SOHC or the Mazda 1.8L DOHC which I had in my LXE.

Anyways! Back on topic!