Who Is Running Gtx Gears? Results? Ideas? Hp?
- Thread starter ion332
- Start date
Its not identical, there are a few differences, but, they are rather small and the majority of the guts are the same..
Us v6 guys figured it out when we would buy a rebuild kit and the part number for the trans rebuild kit crossed over for the escort, 323, 626, protege, blah blah blah.
Then, we started looking at procuring parts from other cars.. One fairly popular mod was the MSP diff, then we started using ring gears etc..
The escape/tribute stuff is *mostly* compatible, but, iirc, some of the escape/tribute gear selectors are different. I think they have double syncros on a few gears..
Us v6 guys figured it out when we would buy a rebuild kit and the part number for the trans rebuild kit crossed over for the escort, 323, 626, protege, blah blah blah.
Then, we started looking at procuring parts from other cars.. One fairly popular mod was the MSP diff, then we started using ring gears etc..
The escape/tribute stuff is *mostly* compatible, but, iirc, some of the escape/tribute gear selectors are different. I think they have double syncros on a few gears..
Just found this thread... i'm glad i did! I've been planning on updating my tranny this summer before upping the boost with a bigger turbo.
So from what I understand I can take my stock MSP gearbox and:
- Throw in 3rd and 4th Gears from a GTX (I can order these parts directly from mazda right?)
- Because of my high top speed goals (170mph+), i could purchase a Ford Festiva 5th gear (.69 ratio) and still be okay?
Throw in a turfburn tranny cooler package and i should be good to go for 400whp, and hella top speed? This is very inexpensive compared to what i thought i would have to pay!
So from what I understand I can take my stock MSP gearbox and:
- Throw in 3rd and 4th Gears from a GTX (I can order these parts directly from mazda right?)
- Because of my high top speed goals (170mph+), i could purchase a Ford Festiva 5th gear (.69 ratio) and still be okay?
Throw in a turfburn tranny cooler package and i should be good to go for 400whp, and hella top speed? This is very inexpensive compared to what i thought i would have to pay!
igdrasil said:
No, our cars came with the MSP 24mm stubs stock because our vehicle is heavier and was originally designed for a 200hp v6 (KLZE).. What changes what axle stub you have is the weight and hp (stock escort/protege=22mm stubs, escape/tribute, pgt, mx6 = 24mm stubs)
So, the MSP diff was a drop-in for us, but not on the mx3 because it was only a 1.8 v6 and it weighed 400lbs less so they got the 22mm stubs.
ok guys heres a problem you arent realizing. The GTX in tekkies sig and the one you guys are talking about is a 1.6l B6T.It was sold in north american in 88ish. Not the 1.8 BPT that bolts into a escort or 1st gen BP protege. The Aussie/Japanese GTX I believe you guys are thinking about is 180HP stock as opposed to the 140ish HP in the 88 GTX and the 1.8l BPTs were never sold in north america/ The 1.6l GTX was in limited numbers and also the b6t was in the mercury capri i believe/ The 1.6l and 1.8l are similar in design, but im pretty sure the trans isnt the same internally though parts might interchange, they arent the same exactly. I think you guys are looking for the 1.8L GTX AWD boxes.1990-1996 I believe. You can find them on 1st gen protege or Escort GT boards. On feoa.net ive seen them go for $100 for the trans, nobody wants em, they are paperweights unless you are converting your car to awd so most just throw them out. The trans is generally thought to be the weak link In a GTX system to begin with, so im not sure how much of a upgrade they will be, aussie GTX guys I know implode the trans around 300WHP, maybe it will be different in a FWD configuration/The 1.6l GTX gears might work, but I would imagine them to be even weaker than the 1.8l GTX gears. Either way if you can find a 1.8l GTX tranny for $100 then go for it.A GTR box is practically impossible to find but would be even better I would imagine.
Ya, I debated about the GTR parts, but, fwiw, it seems they are just the same trans.
Mind you, the gearing is different than other g and f series and it doesn't take much as far as change in the geometry of the gear to get an increase in strength that makes it worthwhile.
With an AWD system its like running two very HUGE slicks ALL the time... You effectively DOUBLE the traction, then, slam it through the same gearbox that was originally designed only for FWD. It puts tremendous stress on the gearbox. In an FWD configuration, it should hold up fine since it will slip before that amount of force gets delivered to the gearbox.
Most gtxs I have heard failures from deal mostly with the transfer case and center diff and an occasional 3rd gear, but, its not like they swap 3rd gear after a failure and then destroy it the next week like what happens on boosted V6s. They actually get to run it for a while before it blows up.
Mind you, the gearing is different than other g and f series and it doesn't take much as far as change in the geometry of the gear to get an increase in strength that makes it worthwhile.
With an AWD system its like running two very HUGE slicks ALL the time... You effectively DOUBLE the traction, then, slam it through the same gearbox that was originally designed only for FWD. It puts tremendous stress on the gearbox. In an FWD configuration, it should hold up fine since it will slip before that amount of force gets delivered to the gearbox.
Most gtxs I have heard failures from deal mostly with the transfer case and center diff and an occasional 3rd gear, but, its not like they swap 3rd gear after a failure and then destroy it the next week like what happens on boosted V6s. They actually get to run it for a while before it blows up.
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btw the 1.6l GTX gears might still work, but I think the 1.8l GTX gears would be cheaper,stronger and easier to find since the motor made more power and torque than the 1.6l and people throw them out when they do a GTX swap cause they dont know about the upgrade.
Thats nice. I tried to do this before, but after buying the spare trans, engine, axles and stuff, i ran out short of money so I never got the GTX gearset.
ion332 said:Well, I am going to get them and see the differences.. I will compare helical angles, hardness, width, etc..
If they are different then I will go with them..
But, for my other trans I think I am going to go with the MPI gearset, that is if I can ever get ahold of Nick.
igdrasil- what tranny is in the 323 u post about? is it a fs tranny? what gears? and how many trannys do u think hes been through? i would love to buy the 3rd and 4th out of a gtx and cryo a whole tranny (or heat them w/e) but i dont want to spend the $ if its just gonna break. i want to find out alot of info before doing it.
i think we need a good write up
i think we need a good write up
Well, he doesnt talk much about his car... But he carries 3 extra transmissions when running a good event. But for what I see, mostly his problem comes with the axles. Hes a very good pilot also, he knows how to shift and not break them.
What I do know is that STOCK tranmission, was usually breaking (3rd gear) in dynos for anything over 480whp, and basically crossing the 1/4 mile in 5th gear.
Stock 1st and 2nd gear been holding well, means never broke, for up to 600whp.
Hes now using 88' USED gears in 3rd, 4th and 5th, so the gears came from a salvaged tranmission, bought in Australia. He doesnt uses 5th in a race anymore, the ratios changed good enough to cross the 1/4 mile in 4th gear with 605whp and yet not redlining.
By the way, his rev limiter is at 8200, so he uses 8k rpms, got a couple of videos running with 605whp @ 40psi
What I do know is that STOCK tranmission, was usually breaking (3rd gear) in dynos for anything over 480whp, and basically crossing the 1/4 mile in 5th gear.
Stock 1st and 2nd gear been holding well, means never broke, for up to 600whp.
Hes now using 88' USED gears in 3rd, 4th and 5th, so the gears came from a salvaged tranmission, bought in Australia. He doesnt uses 5th in a race anymore, the ratios changed good enough to cross the 1/4 mile in 4th gear with 605whp and yet not redlining.
By the way, his rev limiter is at 8200, so he uses 8k rpms, got a couple of videos running with 605whp @ 40psi
CWiLL said:
This engine has a lot of potential, maybe some people here is disapointed with it, but if you see the problems, its mostly badly tuned engines.
His now shooting for 800whp, but a lot of work has arrived to him due to the fame ho got from this car. You would see it running 10 passes a day without issues, except for an axle, he changes it on the break and hes back.
1 big problem he found was the clutch, act xtreme plate and disk wasnt holding, so he had to order a custom one from ACT. Other problem was the 323 body, the front end of the body was twisting, so he had to reinforced it.
His now shooting for 800whp, but a lot of work has arrived to him due to the fame ho got from this car. You would see it running 10 passes a day without issues, except for an axle, he changes it on the break and hes back.
1 big problem he found was the clutch, act xtreme plate and disk wasnt holding, so he had to order a custom one from ACT. Other problem was the 323 body, the front end of the body was twisting, so he had to reinforced it.
lcruz64 said:
lcruz64 said:
He opened an account MP5T but posted a few times. I think he doesnt dominate english that much to post here, he also has too much business, he only posts in local forums and his posts are short, got a couple of pics of his manifolds and custom work.
Heres the videos:
http://home.coqui.net/igdrasil/gallery/turbo/cp323b.wmv
http://home.coqui.net/igdrasil/gallery/turbo/cp323a.wmv
