Which one?

[elderlycoffee]

Which Intercooler should I grab?

The Autoexe(ARC) TMIC or the ETS TMIC from protoge' Garage?

 

[dread]

The autoexe one is $1300, not sure what the other one costs, but 1300 is almost tripple what you should pay.

 

[elderlycoffee]

The autoexe one is $1300, not sure what the other one costs, but 1300 is almost tripple what you should pay.

thats what i was thinking, they other is 600 with the powder coat option.
But the autoexe one is damn sexy.

 

[SeanMSIII]

thats what i was thinking, they other is 600 with the powder coat option.
But the autoexe one is damn sexy.

Man, if you have LOTS of spare cash, go with the ARC. Supposedly, the production ETS' look better than the prototype in the picture. And, we actually have some data on the ETS. None on the ARC. But when you open the hood, I think powder coat or no the ARC is gonna look a lot nicer.

 

[elderlycoffee]

The ARC is supposed to give a 13.4hp boost I believe,
The other one gives a 20hp boost...

 

[zoom-zoomhatch]

I've actually never heard of an intercooler giving any sort of a hp boost, and also heard there might be a problem with hitting boost cut with an aftermarket intercooler.

 

[elderlycoffee]

I had never heared of it either but I was telling my friend that I found an upgrade intercooler and he goes " how much of a boost will that add? 15-20hp?" Apparently he has.

 

[zoom-zoomhatch]

Anyone else heard of the fuel cut problem? If not then this might be something nice to have laying under the x-mas tree this year...

 

[Damian]

Why wouldn't an intercooler be able to add horsepower? It reduces the temperature of the intake charge, thereby increasing the density. It's the same reason you lose power at high altitudes - less dense air, less powerful combustion. The air is compressed before it enters the IC, so there shouldn't be any trouble with hitting a boost limit. Ken had a lot of dyno work done on these, and if anything, he said it increased streetability, with no mention of any troubles.

 

[CitizenPro]

You'll get roughly the same amount of power gains from either intercooler. So id chose the ETS TMIC from Ken @PG.....the finished product looks really nice. Unless u wanna go for a FMIC?

 

[elderlycoffee]

You'll get roughly the same amount of power gains from either intercooler. So id chose the ETS TMIC from Ken @PG.....the finished product looks really nice. Unless u wanna go for a FMIC?

is there a fmic yet

 

[SeanMSIII]

is there a fmic yet

Nope, a couple are imminent for the MS6 but none for MS3 that I've seen. It's no easy task. Rigid pipes have to be run all over the place. When they do get made, I think the money will be almost as much as the ARC and not so pretty when you open the hood. I wish someone would post up the finished product ETS for us to look at. I can't afford the ARC and I keep going back and forth: Cobb AP, ETS TMIC, Cobb AP, ETS TMIC. Well, first I need a boost gauge anyhow. I can wait to decide on the next mod until Cobb has finished with their alchemy.

 

[fourthmeal]

also, you get more power out of these nicer intercoolers thanks to the fact that ALL intercoolers create a pressure drop. So, thanks to friction created by air flowing through an IC, you get a pressure drop. Engineer the IC so it flows more (without increasing its internal mass too much, because that creates lag thanks to the fact there is so much more stuff to move through), and you'll get a bonus of less pressure drop AND cooler air charge into the engine.

This means that a quality, well designed IC (not to say the factory is bad, but hey they have a budget, the aftermarket, not so much) will lower the charge air temp AND create less pressure drop, resulting in significant horsepower increases. Not to mention significant improvements in driveability, since an increase in flow w/ less heat will net a happier engine (less pumping losses, for instance), and should help with heat soak.

A FMIC would be great, since it would be much larger, but LAG would be much, much more. You could offset that with anti-lag technologies, nitrous (used as an antilag device, not as power-adder), and a ball-bearing turbo. But thats MONEY. A FMIC is always worth considering though, since lag is sometimes not a horrible thing. Case in point, lag can keep the engine from going into boost when you are just trying to creep along with traffic. That way, you gotta mean it to get it. Hit the throttle, slight pause, and WHAM you're off (or you're spinning tires in 1st and 2nd, a problem I'm finding on my new MS3)

I had extensive work done to my 91 Supra (yeah, thats not THE Supra, but its A Supra), which after all was said and done had the stock turbo maxxxxxed out, but was still healthy. Used tricks such as wastegate solenoid shimming, a Porsche BOV (which made a SICK sound, and worked fantastically,...cost is 60 bucks), cam cover venting and recirc, custom (read: so cheap it was made out of PVC plastic, but it worked!) intercooler piping, and tons of ways to get free horsepower out of a relatively small turbo. Bottom line: each mod made the car faster, and also usually made it more drivable, and more fun. I'm sure we'll find neat ways to make the MS3 faster safely while improving drivability.

Hope this helps a bit!

 

[SeanMSIII]

also, you get more power out of these nicer intercoolers thanks to the fact that ALL intercoolers create a pressure drop. So, thanks to friction created by air flowing through an IC, you get a pressure drop. Engineer the IC so it flows more (without increasing its internal mass too much, because that creates lag thanks to the fact there is so much more stuff to move through), and you'll get a bonus of less pressure drop AND cooler air charge into the engine.

This means that a quality, well designed IC (not to say the factory is bad, but hey they have a budget, the aftermarket, not so much) will lower the charge air temp AND create less pressure drop, resulting in significant horsepower increases. Not to mention significant improvements in driveability, since an increase in flow w/ less heat will net a happier engine (less pumping losses, for instance), and should help with heat soak.

A FMIC would be great, since it would be much larger, but LAG would be much, much more. You could offset that with anti-lag technologies, nitrous (used as an antilag device, not as power-adder), and a ball-bearing turbo. But thats MONEY. A FMIC is always worth considering though, since lag is sometimes not a horrible thing. Case in point, lag can keep the engine from going into boost when you are just trying to creep along with traffic. That way, you gotta mean it to get it. Hit the throttle, slight pause, and WHAM you're off (or you're spinning tires in 1st and 2nd, a problem I'm finding on my new MS3)

I had extensive work done to my 91 Supra (yeah, thats not THE Supra, but its A Supra), which after all was said and done had the stock turbo maxxxxxed out, but was still healthy. Used tricks such as wastegate solenoid shimming, a Porsche BOV (which made a SICK sound, and worked fantastically,...cost is 60 bucks), cam cover venting and recirc, custom (read: so cheap it was made out of PVC plastic, but it worked!) intercooler piping, and tons of ways to get free horsepower out of a relatively small turbo. Bottom line: each mod made the car faster, and also usually made it more drivable, and more fun. I'm sure we'll find neat ways to make the MS3 faster safely while improving drivability.

Hope this helps a bit!

Thanks for sharing. Yeah, good stuff, especially about the PVC intercooler piping. I imagine careful routing was required to avoid ending up with melted pipes. (boom05) Porsche BOV is also a classy touch. Might be a little more than $60 nowadays but worth looking into. I hope you'll keep us up to date on your mods since you've been through this before and many of us are complete turbo noobs.

 

[fourthmeal]

lol...my mods will be the ones coming straight from MAZDASPEED, since I've got a warranty and and aftermarket warranty on this car. But MAZDASPEED appears to have some nice performance adders on the way. They are all allowed on the car without voiding the warranty.

 

[clos561]

is there a fmic yet

get what ever is cheapest and gives you the most horsepower.....

 

[voiceKoil]

I've actually never heard of an intercooler giving any sort of a hp boost, and also heard there might be a problem with hitting boost cut with an aftermarket intercooler.

We all know it doesent boost your engines power output, It frees up that amount of power and with that, it allows the engine to run more efficeintly thus the possibility to Make power, so In Simple terms it adds to what your feeling from the stock engine and its components.........Why do people always get technical with these simple things...?



Id go for the Protogarage Intercooler.....Its custom made from what seems to be a respectable company "extreme turbo systems" for half the price. Put it this way..... Nice intercooler and CAI ........ OR........ Nice intercooler...... If your more for the looks and impressing people and only putting the "best most expensive" parts on your car then spend the 1300, but I know thats too much for me.

 

[quiet desperado]

We all know it doesent boost your engines power output, It frees up that amount of power and with that, it allows the engine to run more efficeintly thus the possibility to Make power, so In Simple terms it adds to what your feeling from the stock engine and its components.........Why do people always get technical with these simple things...?

....

I'm sorry, but that is just plain fuzzy thinking. "Freeing up power" is a way of boosting power output, even it it just due to drivetrain components working more efficiently. And the explanation for why an aftermarket TMIC will boost power output is by it's nature a little technical. The ETS TMIC has a much lower drop in pressure b/t the inlet and the outlet than the stock TMIC. This results in a more compressed charge reaching the cylinder, creating a more powerful controlled burn, and a boost in power output.

 

[voiceKoil]

I'm sorry, but that is just plain fuzzy thinking. "Freeing up power" is a way of boosting power output, even it it just due to drivetrain components working more efficiently. And the explanation for why an aftermarket TMIC will boost power output is by it's nature a little technical. The ETS TMIC has a much lower drop in pressure b/t the inlet and the outlet than the stock TMIC. This results in a more compressed charge reaching the cylinder, creating a more powerful controlled burn, and a boost in power output.

Its still "freeing up power" because the stock one is suppose to be somewhat restrictive......The 2 different TMICS available both use different than stock Airflow paterns and larger cores..... and Having a lager core makes it run more Efficiently which in turn creates power.......Thats what Im getting out of what you said, and I believe thats exactly what I said in my comment... We could go back and forth all day on the tech specs.....Which in my opinion is a waste of time with something this simple...................Im fuzzily thinking the same as you are....just worded differently.........

 

[quiet desperado]

Its still "freeing up power" because the stock one is suppose to be somewhat restrictive......The 2 different TMICS available both use different than stock Airflow paterns and larger cores..... and Having a lager core makes it run more Efficiently which in turn creates power.......Thats what Im getting out of what you said, and I believe thats exactly what I said in my comment... We could go back and forth all day on the tech specs.....Which in my opinion is a waste of time with something this simple...................Im fuzzily thinking the same as you are....just worded differently.........

The fuzziness in your thinking is where you say that the aftermarket intercooler doesn't boost power, just frees up power, but allows the potential to make power. This is the case if you're just talking about an aftermarket TMIC retaining it's ability to cool the charge better than the stock TMIC as temperatures increase. Before the temperatures increased, the engine with the stock TMIC was making its rated hp. But as the TMIC began to be overwhelmed by the increased temp, the engines power was reduced by 10% or whatever. The aftermarket TMIC does not cause a reduction in power in this situation and thus allows the engine to continue making its rated power. This seems to be what you're talking about.

But in the case of reducing the amount pressure drop, the aftermarket TMIC is allowing the engine is actually make more than it's rated power, not just allowing it continue making its rated power. This is an actual boost in power as opposed to just freeing up power that was there to begin with.

Anyway, if you go to Mazda 6 Club's Mazdaspeed Engine/Powertrain section and check out the first post of the Official ETS thread, you will see two dynos of the ETS vs. the stock TMIC. Note that the first one shows the actual increase in power (due to lower pressure drop) and the second one shows the retention of ability to cool charge as temperatures increase. I'd give you the URLs but they'll be blanked out.

http://forum.***************/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=16920