Adjustable End Links…Anyone install these on their CX-5?
- Thread starter N7turbo
- Start date
AL Cx5
2024 CX-5 Prem Turbo Tuned Lowered Forged Wheels
OOPS 2" Front and 2.5" Rear. I measured a few curbs in parking lots and drove up a drive we frequent regularly and didn't scrape... I'm sure we could scrap if we tried or were not aware of the limitations....
Funny, I got my wife to look under the car when up on jack stands and discuss what parts will be damaged running the wheels to parking curbs and such when we first lowed. I hope we can have this discussion again......
Today it has OEM suspension back on. I'll start the coilover install process next week. We both liked the 2" front/2.5" rear lower look. It handles much better. We can dial in the shocks for understeer with a few turns on each shock as needed.
THEN to change out the A36 tires!
I've got to admit, the CX 5 has won me over after changing out the sway bars/end link, ground cables, wheels and on my 2nd engine tune revision. This little turbo inline 4 is perky with a tune. My tuner has added more timing after I presented spark plug evidence it could take more timing. It's refreshing to work with a guy who is more than a keyboard tuner!
DRTuned refined the tune upon my request. MOST folks want sensitive throttle response from an idle. I have and had plenty of these kind of car. My wife on the other hand didn't like something that felt like it would jump in the back seat of the car in front. David reduce throttle response and all is well with the grocery getter...
MAYBE someday we will get transmission tuning, raise the shift point and shift firmness to start with. The tuned 2.5 T is just getting on the power curve and it SHIFTS!!
Funny, I got my wife to look under the car when up on jack stands and discuss what parts will be damaged running the wheels to parking curbs and such when we first lowed. I hope we can have this discussion again......
Today it has OEM suspension back on. I'll start the coilover install process next week. We both liked the 2" front/2.5" rear lower look. It handles much better. We can dial in the shocks for understeer with a few turns on each shock as needed.
THEN to change out the A36 tires!
I've got to admit, the CX 5 has won me over after changing out the sway bars/end link, ground cables, wheels and on my 2nd engine tune revision. This little turbo inline 4 is perky with a tune. My tuner has added more timing after I presented spark plug evidence it could take more timing. It's refreshing to work with a guy who is more than a keyboard tuner!
DRTuned refined the tune upon my request. MOST folks want sensitive throttle response from an idle. I have and had plenty of these kind of car. My wife on the other hand didn't like something that felt like it would jump in the back seat of the car in front. David reduce throttle response and all is well with the grocery getter...
MAYBE someday we will get transmission tuning, raise the shift point and shift firmness to start with. The tuned 2.5 T is just getting on the power curve and it SHIFTS!!
N7turbo
2023 CX-5 2.5T ... 2024 MX-5 RF GT
Keep in mind the rear will come down when loaded. Corksport designed theirs with a slight rake for that reason so the result will be level when loaded. The rear will sag with a 2.5" drop...
I got an answer on the MaXpeedingRods end links. Because they're pre-made and packaged up, there's no way to get extra ball joints, so it looks like I'll have to order 2 sets. They are still cheap so I won't complain, but that would have been a real home run. Though you could hypothetically find ball joints somewhere else, I am having trouble doing so.
I got an answer on the MaXpeedingRods end links. Because they're pre-made and packaged up, there's no way to get extra ball joints, so it looks like I'll have to order 2 sets. They are still cheap so I won't complain, but that would have been a real home run. Though you could hypothetically find ball joints somewhere else, I am having trouble doing so.
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AL Cx5
2024 CX-5 Prem Turbo Tuned Lowered Forged Wheels
The rear will be about 1/2" higher than the front. I agree, fully loaded will be slightly lower. If I don't like it, I simply tune the height adjustment screws. We don't drive around at load capacity or tow. Part of the beauty of coilovers...
I was not holding much hope MaXspeedingRods would sell individual parts. I was surprised they responded.
I just ordered 8 replacement end rod connections for my race car 4 Link today. These are not toys and priced accordingly. If one broke I would be into the wall or worse so I'm not complaining a bit. All part of the chassis upgrade for a more powerful engine...
I bet eBay would have the ends but not sure of the quality. I bought two complete sets and have some paper weights.
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N7turbo
2023 CX-5 2.5T ... 2024 MX-5 RF GT
Thanks. Are you at stock ride height? I also took pictures earlier. I'm looking for definitive proof that the stock end links are too long for a 2" drop. I think the ends of the sway bar are usually parallel to the ground. This was taken through the driver's side wheel:
This was taken from under the car:
The end links don't appear to be "at ease" and everything is tight with no movement. I have to drive this car to work tomorrow so I'm trying to avoid undoing them right now, in case the sway bar jumps an inch or two away and then I have to wrangle it back together.
This was taken from under the car:
The end links don't appear to be "at ease" and everything is tight with no movement. I have to drive this car to work tomorrow so I'm trying to avoid undoing them right now, in case the sway bar jumps an inch or two away and then I have to wrangle it back together.
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- 2023 CX5 turbo
yes i am at stock height. stock link is about 11.5" center to center. the swaybar itself should move freely if you disconnect the links and should not jump one way or another unless it was bent ie if you disconnect one link it should stay where it is at unless one link is longer or it is bent..I would say tho if you have stock links and lowered the vehicle 2" you should have shorter links...
N7turbo
2023 CX-5 2.5T ... 2024 MX-5 RF GT
That is what I think, too. It makes sense to me that the end links should also be 2 inches shorter. But visually I'm trying to see what that would do to the sway bar...and it looks like it would bring it up 2 inches which would not be parallel to the ground anymore. But I'm probably looking at this wrong.
This was taken from under the passenger side of the car looking forward:
And this one is looking backward:
AL Cx5
2024 CX-5 Prem Turbo Tuned Lowered Forged Wheels
X2, I adjusted my aftermarket links to closely match how much I lowered the car. I've had one side longer than the other and it works just fine. No interference or preload and all is well.
Link length is not precise. The idea is no preload and be sure there is enough room for them to swing freely. The car will tell ya if it they are to long or short.
Next time I take a wheel off I'll take some pics of the end links.
N7turbo
2023 CX-5 2.5T ... 2024 MX-5 RF GT
Alright I spent some more time under the car trying to understand how everything moves...and it's not what you think.
Front:
As the spring gets shorter, the body of the car comes down. The sway bar is attached to the frame of the car at a point lower than the upper mounting point on the strut. The sway bar then comes down with the body being lowered. The strut however, does not move. So because the sway bar sits below and moves downward, the distance increases. The result is that the end links end up being too short and the sway bar is pulled upward. You can sort of see it in the pictures above. That's why I wasn't seeing what I expected to see with regard to its orientation. It's not pointing down, it's pointing up!
Rear:
Again, the sway bar is attached to the body, so it comes down with a lowering spring. However in this case it sits above the other mounting point, which is on the lower control arm below. Therefore when the body and attached sway bar come down, the distance to the mounting point decreases, and the end link is too long. The end link pushes the sway bar upward.
In both cases there is constant tension on the bars and I suspect this is one of the sources of my poor ride quality. It could even be a source of noise. This means we need a longer front link, and a shorter rear link.
If they confirm with my inquiry that they are M12 I am going to go ahead and order this kit as it seems the best quality for the price I can find and actually has the right lengths! If my measurements are right, the front will need to be maxed out and the rear link will sit in the middle of its range. I will certainly post pictures as I do the install and we'll find out if I'm right or wrong on all of this as there aren't any discussions I could find on this topic for Mazdas. In fact there seems to be a lot of confused people on the internet for all cars whenever this subject comes up and it's hard to find good info. Most of the corroborating info I read was on BMW forums and people are saying their ride quality was horrible until they installed longer links up front!
To be continued...
Mods, please merge this thread into this one as it's time to move to the next phase.
Front:
As the spring gets shorter, the body of the car comes down. The sway bar is attached to the frame of the car at a point lower than the upper mounting point on the strut. The sway bar then comes down with the body being lowered. The strut however, does not move. So because the sway bar sits below and moves downward, the distance increases. The result is that the end links end up being too short and the sway bar is pulled upward. You can sort of see it in the pictures above. That's why I wasn't seeing what I expected to see with regard to its orientation. It's not pointing down, it's pointing up!
Rear:
Again, the sway bar is attached to the body, so it comes down with a lowering spring. However in this case it sits above the other mounting point, which is on the lower control arm below. Therefore when the body and attached sway bar come down, the distance to the mounting point decreases, and the end link is too long. The end link pushes the sway bar upward.
In both cases there is constant tension on the bars and I suspect this is one of the sources of my poor ride quality. It could even be a source of noise. This means we need a longer front link, and a shorter rear link.
If they confirm with my inquiry that they are M12 I am going to go ahead and order this kit as it seems the best quality for the price I can find and actually has the right lengths! If my measurements are right, the front will need to be maxed out and the rear link will sit in the middle of its range. I will certainly post pictures as I do the install and we'll find out if I'm right or wrong on all of this as there aren't any discussions I could find on this topic for Mazdas. In fact there seems to be a lot of confused people on the internet for all cars whenever this subject comes up and it's hard to find good info. Most of the corroborating info I read was on BMW forums and people are saying their ride quality was horrible until they installed longer links up front!
To be continued...
Mods, please merge this thread into this one as it's time to move to the next phase.
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AL Cx5
2024 CX-5 Prem Turbo Tuned Lowered Forged Wheels
I lowered the front 1.5" and rear 1.675". The front link doesn't interfer at 12" long.
You can see the camber adustment bolt in this pic. Top bolt mounting strut. Also has rear adjustable lower control arm.
Alignment came all in the green, within factory spec. Front camber, -0.7 and -1.3, rear -0.9 and -0.7. See alignment sheet for details going from stock height.
You can see the camber adustment bolt in this pic. Top bolt mounting strut. Also has rear adjustable lower control arm.
Alignment came all in the green, within factory spec. Front camber, -0.7 and -1.3, rear -0.9 and -0.7. See alignment sheet for details going from stock height.
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N7turbo
2023 CX-5 2.5T ... 2024 MX-5 RF GT
Based on this you need a front link of 328mm and a rear link of 107.5mm stud to stud, if my measurements of 290 and 150 are accurate.
The MAXspeedingrods links are the wrong length to maintain the same sway bar geometry as stock. You need longer up front and shorter in the rear.
AL Cx5
2024 CX-5 Prem Turbo Tuned Lowered Forged Wheels
As long as the links do not interfere with the chassis the length is not all that important. The MAXspeedrods don't touch and are at zero preload. These are the important factors.
On my 1,100 HP, 950 Torque race car, the end links are offset to rotate around a chassis support. One end link is over and inch shorter than the other, like 4" vs 3". Believe me, if starting angle was important, we would have cut out the chassis supports and moved them or placed the 3" diameter Anti Roll Bar in another location. 0 to 60 in 1 second doesn't allow for much time to correct for improper body roll.
The end link applies the same amount of torsional force as the suspension moves up and down. The Sway Bar rotates in the bushings as the suspension moves up and down, controlling body roll. So it does not matter if it's at the OEM angle as long as it satisfies the first paragraph.
https://raceland.com/news/tech-tip-how-to-adjust-sway-bar-end-links/#:~:text=If sway bar end links,be adjusted to per vehicle.
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N7turbo
2023 CX-5 2.5T ... 2024 MX-5 RF GT
That is not a road car or daily driver, though. What applies there isn't relevant to a discussion on handing and ride quality.
If you want everything to work as intended for a road car, you want to maintain the original geometry. If not, the sway bar's (technically we should call it an anti-roll bar) effectiveness is slightly reduced. You may be within a range of tolerance to not notice it. +/- a few degrees probably probably won't be that noticeable, but if it's off by inches, you probably would. The bigger issue though is if the sway bar is being pushed one way or the other such that it never rests when driving straight, ride quality can be affected. I saw at least three people with this issue on BMW forums who got longer front end links such that the link and sway bar could be connected effortlessly, as in, without any pushing or pulling, and said the change was like night and day. My ride is significantly worse than I'm expecting it to be so for now this is my number 1 culprit. After I get these changed I'll assess the results and see what else I can do.
AL Cx5
2024 CX-5 Prem Turbo Tuned Lowered Forged Wheels
Torsional forces and neutral settings, and no interferance with the chassis is what applies for Dds. Next no werid angles on the link so it will last. There is no evidence pointing out that the sway bar angle to links is critical.
My teams vast experience with ARBs understand the geometry. It's all about the 1st paragraph. Torsional forces rule, not the angle of the ARB to the chassis....
My example, 2200#, 1100 HP drag car applies in that as long as the ARB is neutral and do not interfer, hit or rub on the chassis, it works as intended. Even if the links are different lengths and different angles. We set the car on 4 wheel scales, put a person or weight in the driver's seat to match the driver's weight. Then adjust the ARB links to be neutral and other items. We take these adjustments seriously, like my life depends on it.
The next time I have my scales out I'll scale the CX5 for kicks. With and without the driver.
My CX5 front and rear sway bar links are neutral. I know what it feels like if they are preloaded. The car tracks and handles as intended with NO interferance. I won't put my wife in a car that has preload on the sway bars.
The cool thing about modifying cars, there are many paths that take us to the same results. I supose you will find a solution that satisfies your criteria.
Saying my links are not ideal is an incorrect statement and shows a lack of understanding.
Good luck
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- 2023 CX5 turbo
N7turbo
2023 CX-5 2.5T ... 2024 MX-5 RF GT
Those links have the following lengths:
- 135-175mm: can only adjust 15mm shorter than stock for use at the rear
- 205-245mm: not usable on these cars
- 255-295mm: barely reaches stock length up front, let alone the extra length needed for a lowered car. If stock length is 290mm, how can this be adequate for a lowered car?
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