WARNING! All Turbo MP3's
- Thread starter big_ben
- Start date
mp3rican007
Member
Its funny to here you guys analyze the problem of the protege motor. First off big ben was running a fmu, i tell all of you people out there who run a fmu, will most likely damage their motors, secondly big ben (dont know if you tuned your car) probably never took his car to a dyno to see how it ran with turbo at low rpm and at high rpm under boost. Never checked the air/fuel, and no an autometer air/fuel guage doesnt work for s***. Yes the timing can make a car run a little less but the mp3s timing is advanced ridiculously enought to cause such a thing. Low oil will cuase a piston to crack or too much boost. But slight advancement in ignition no.
Just the other day I had a guy with a saturn come to our shop, custom turbo kit with t3 turbo, tial wastegate, small front mount, safc, and fmu. Car dynoed peak 140hp to wheels at 6.5 pounds. Car was running to lean.
Now a saturn we built with t3/t4, intercooler, no wastegate, upgrade injectors, and pump, dynoed 190whp at same boost with a perfect air fuel in the high 11s low 12s
FMUS dont work get injectors and a emanage spoolin says the fuel works, who cars if timing isnt figured out right now.
NUMBER 1 Priority is air and fuel, If you dont have proper amount of fuel to burn with amount of air coming into car, you are going to overheat run lean and break a rod POINT Blank. I have spoken take my advice and get your cars tuned properly at a dyno tuning shop, if they dont have a dyno then their not a tuning shop they just sell parts or install them.
Omar
www.GarageAdvance.com
Just the other day I had a guy with a saturn come to our shop, custom turbo kit with t3 turbo, tial wastegate, small front mount, safc, and fmu. Car dynoed peak 140hp to wheels at 6.5 pounds. Car was running to lean.
Now a saturn we built with t3/t4, intercooler, no wastegate, upgrade injectors, and pump, dynoed 190whp at same boost with a perfect air fuel in the high 11s low 12s
FMUS dont work get injectors and a emanage spoolin says the fuel works, who cars if timing isnt figured out right now.
NUMBER 1 Priority is air and fuel, If you dont have proper amount of fuel to burn with amount of air coming into car, you are going to overheat run lean and break a rod POINT Blank. I have spoken take my advice and get your cars tuned properly at a dyno tuning shop, if they dont have a dyno then their not a tuning shop they just sell parts or install them.
Omar
www.GarageAdvance.com
I-Am-Chris
Member
is anyone running any type of BTC on there cars at the moment???
and a wideband is almost a must for tuning
and a wideband is almost a must for tuning
DooMer_MP3
Member
big_ben said:
Just curious, but wouldn't you need to tune the link differently for the different setups you might have? I mean, Terry is running above 8psi, but a lot of people here run 5 or 6psi. Wouldn't the link have to be tuned differently for this? If not, thats awesome, and my lack of knowledge shows
.As for the advanced timing of the MP3 ECU, I say, why not just swap it? Why not just be as safe as you can and ditch the advanced timing? Hell you could probably find a ES/P5 ECU for cheap, and make a pretty good profit off of your MP3 ECU on Ebay with its "mad advanced timing for 20HP!!!"
.Chris
"Didnt your rod break? You should lower your comp and get all forged rods and pistons. You'd be going were no man has gone before, except JIC. But thats different." not quite no mans land, I'm approching rapidly. And Ben, don't count on a P% ecu saving the day, close to the exact thing happend to me, my piston is done and no oil cause the ring broke, and I'm on my stock ecu. I might have figured something out though, take you ignition coils and take a reading with an ohmmeter. Also take the reading on the high tension leads. Tell me what you get.
-Andrew
-Andrew
I-Am-Chris
Member
again anyone using a BTC. that is almost a must for turbo na motors. Thats what all the honda guys run. Jackson racing, MSD and some others make them
You know what, I could give a s*** if all your motors crapped out. The lack of oil was one of the causes of the pistons being cracked, I believe the advanced timing also had something to do with it. If you dissagree, that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion just like I am. Like I said, I thought I'd be nice and warn all of you. Take it or leave it.
Man this post is all over the place
Ok first to clarify a few things:
CHdesign is absolutly correct, big bens mishaps involved a few factors and oil was the big killer on that. I seriously doubt that 6-7 psi of boost did that to his motor in such a short time.
I have run up to 12psi and even overboosted to 16psi without ANY problems...yes I run a piggy back but one must understand our motors should never see anything over 10psi with proper timing and fuel control and mine has on numerous occasions.
Our motors can take a lickin and the Mazdaspeed is a testament to that.
There a bunch of people on here saying "change out your pistons, rods ect" This is absolutley unecessary. A properly running turbo protege needs adequate fuel and stock timing should suffice if the boost is kept under 6-7psi depending on your set of circumstances (fuel, altitude, temp ect)
Again the mazdaspeed runs on the stock FS motor that we share and you dont hear them breaking and melting motors. In regards to timing its not a bad idea to switch ecu's on the mp3 from the pro5. However this will not solve all problems and make you "safe"
Get a mazdaspeed ecu then your in business
Otherwise you will have to limit yourself to 6-7psi on an FMU setup. We are working on something...I cant release to much info but it will resolve all of the fuel and timing issues with the p5 and mp3.
I suggest to alot of turbo people on this forum to get proper a/f monitoring equipment. Whenever we sell a kit we stress this important factor and basically try to educate the consumer on this. And the majority of our customers either end up with a wideband or egt, these a/f montors are more important than even a boost gauge.
The link is a good unit and I would be more than happy to share my settings with anybody but there is a light at the end of the tunnel with stage4
Ok first to clarify a few things:
CHdesign is absolutly correct, big bens mishaps involved a few factors and oil was the big killer on that. I seriously doubt that 6-7 psi of boost did that to his motor in such a short time.
I have run up to 12psi and even overboosted to 16psi without ANY problems...yes I run a piggy back but one must understand our motors should never see anything over 10psi with proper timing and fuel control and mine has on numerous occasions.
Our motors can take a lickin and the Mazdaspeed is a testament to that.
There a bunch of people on here saying "change out your pistons, rods ect" This is absolutley unecessary. A properly running turbo protege needs adequate fuel and stock timing should suffice if the boost is kept under 6-7psi depending on your set of circumstances (fuel, altitude, temp ect)
Again the mazdaspeed runs on the stock FS motor that we share and you dont hear them breaking and melting motors. In regards to timing its not a bad idea to switch ecu's on the mp3 from the pro5. However this will not solve all problems and make you "safe"
Get a mazdaspeed ecu then your in business
Otherwise you will have to limit yourself to 6-7psi on an FMU setup. We are working on something...I cant release to much info but it will resolve all of the fuel and timing issues with the p5 and mp3.
I suggest to alot of turbo people on this forum to get proper a/f monitoring equipment. Whenever we sell a kit we stress this important factor and basically try to educate the consumer on this. And the majority of our customers either end up with a wideband or egt, these a/f montors are more important than even a boost gauge.
Yeah MP3skaterNC hit the nail on the head when he awnsered that one.
Not necessarily. I am not claiming the FMU is the best thing out there but one must have realistic expectations with it. For a 5-7psi system an FMU is sufficient....why do you ask? Well we verified it on a wideband and thats why we know. So you cannot come on here and day FMU/FPR' are pieces of s*** because they are not. I would advise someone to spend there money on a/f monitoring equipment before upgrading there fuel system....this way one accuratly determine if an upgraded fuel system is needed.
Upgaded injectors and a pump is hardly an accurate fuel control device. You need something to control those injectors otherwise driveability will go out the window
Again FMU's do work. I have been experimenting with the emanage and yes its a great system but it does not affectively retard timing. Basically you are paying $500+ and not addressing the full problem.
The link is a good unit and I would be more than happy to share my settings with anybody but there is a light at the end of the tunnel with stage4
LaZaBLuEMp3
Member
- :
- RSX type s
damn that makes me feel alot betta!
Here is my last post on this topic. I don't want anyone to think I am bashing the turbo on this motor. I am not. I think Spoolin's turbo kit is the safest mainly because of the manifold he utilizes. And the FMU is fine for 7psi and below. There isn't that much more fuel that is needed for that low psi. I think if it is installed right and has enough fuel, it will be fine AT NO MORE THAN 7 TO 8PSI! But, I also strongly believe that if you want some extra insurance with the MP3, you should swap ECUs with a normal protege. The people that are bashing the FMU haven't understood this. Most turbo cars that come from the factory with a turbo are running MUCH more boost. Most are running anywhere from 10 to 20psi. So there cars have bigger injectors and different fuel maps. This is the main reason an FMU is fine for the psi we can run. So like I said, my only advice is to swap ECU's which will be free and is about a 5 minute job. I'm sure there are TONS of Pro5 owners that would love to swap.
Take my advice or leave it, I could care less.
Take my advice or leave it, I could care less.
Last edited:
hawkwind101
Member
Is the ECU the only difference between the MP3 and P5 motors? Also does the MP3 ECU give 10hp at the crank or at the wheels?
If switching ECU's are that easy I might consider swapping with someone who needs mine for their turbo setup.
If switching ECU's are that easy I might consider swapping with someone who needs mine for their turbo setup.
Yes the only difference is the ecu. The MP3 runs more advanced ignition timing which is great for all motor apps but not so hot on a turbo car. The MP3 ecu supposedly gives 10hp at the crank. I think you could find plenty MP3 owners that would like to switch out with ya
What you MP3 owners waiting for!!!
