War Against IRAQ...FOR or AGAINST

[TStar]

Your an ASSHOLE not a Nazi!!

yep,but i hope that's not really news for you. let's just say i love "intense conversations" a lot and cannot let people be when i think i discovered something worthy to discuss.

(btw: what is this avatar you were talking about? it's a globe with a cow's head and this cow is holding something in its left hand????? what is this?)

 

[1sty]

it seems your memory is a little short...
you were lied to...about the reasons of the 2 wars and about the "actual threat" for the usa (last one was a real roflmao).. but unfortunately the usa was one of 5 countries which's majority seemed to believed their regime's lies.the rest of the world was a little more clever.

My memory is very sharp actualy. To lie to me they must tell me something that isn't true. Since the only common and certian message is "We will remove Saddam Hussien from power" Then they did indeeed not lie, he isn't there anymore.
Now the reasoning of he has weapons of mass destrcution was never actualy worded that way. For good reason. The common phrases were, "Stop his ability to produce and use WOMD" and "to fund terrosism."Now if you don't think Iraq produced banned chemical and biological weapons, which are illegal for THEM to posses or construct then you are simply blind. These things have already been found not to mentioned previously deployed by Saddam. It doesn't have to be nukes to be a WOMD.
I still love how vaque you have to be becuase you can not site specific fact. Just more common BS.

just a short game of memory:
the reason starting war in afghanistan was to find bin laden/consorts and then beat the supporters of international terrorism. and when there was no proof the reason changed to "freeing those poor people" from the taliban regime...
the reason starting war in iraq was to eliminate saddam hussein's support for muslim terrorists.... and when there was no proof for that the reason changed to the imminent threat coming from saddam hussein's weapons of mass destruction.... and when there was no proof for that the reason changed to "freeing those poor people" from the saddam regime....

WRONG!!!
Damn dood atleast pay atention to some kind of time line if your going to spit up this bulls***. The USA DEMANDED that the Taliban regime give up Bin Laden, his fallowers and any info they had on them. THEY OFFERED NOTHING!!! Hence we said we will come in and take you out for harboring them. Again they did not cooperate, thus they are no more. Bin Laden was not the main objective in that military action. From the start the words multi headed network were used. The main objective was CRUSHING his network. Affganistan was the main home of that network. We crushed it and continue to do so. We also continue to fallow and seek it out.

if it wasn't so cynical & sad it would be really funny... persuading you "patriotic" citizens seems easier than conditioning chimpanzees to munch a piece of sugar.

Ah yes now we come to the true. The European View that all americans are ignorant and willing to except governement lies. Interesting considering there is all but a total 50/50 split of the citizens ideoligy in this country. Yet we are all the same to you.
I love how we can be so easy catagorized as ignorant when you are infact BELIEVEING EXACTLY WHAT YOUR GOVERNEMENT IS TELLING YOU ABOUT US. (thumb)
Heres a news flash, the average American is more sceptical of the US governement then an ass raping proctologist. We all have different minds and ideoligies. To even attempt to rationalize such a large and vast number of people as you are, proves simply how ignorant you are of basic human behavior.

i don't know...maybe it's very american to change the reason for war one day by another but one thing is obvious: if you change your reasons for acting and do not talk about the "old" reasons anymore, you seem to have realized that the old reasons were...wrong. you could also say that changing reasons randomly is a helpless attempt to show others that your actions are justified. i'm pretty sure you defend the last reason (freeing abc of xyz) because it feeds your heroic picture of yourself .
but one thing you haven't even recognized: the freeing of xyz is ultraselective. i wonder why the us govs decides to "free" only countries which fit their geopolitical plans...obviously they don't give a s*** about suffering people if the country is geopolitically uninteresting... and that makes the whole [bunch of reasons] untrustworthy.

Lets see 1st reason, US Security.
2nd reason US security.
3rd Readon, US Security.

Unlike your conglomerate of cowardly pussies that rather see situations escilate to all out war and slaughter of millions of innocents before you will even think about NEGOTIATING. The USA realizes when there is a definite threat to ourselves and our allies, as cowardly as they maybe. And we will not allow a MAJOR escalation to procede. This is true of half the BS in Bosnia. Check you records. How long did European nations DEMAND the US stay out of it? YEARSSSSSSSSSS!!! While People were slaughtered, becuase somehow you thought we'd make it worse, ARE YOU ******* INSANE!!! Eventualy you pricks can crying to us to stop it as you could not handle the fallout of your stupidy. IF you think your goverment didn't lie to you about that then simply look at the timeline of events and truth becomes clear.

i'm pretty sure the phrase for threatening countries to stop all economical help which they're dependent on for many years is called "blackmailing", not "bribing".

(rofl)
So typical!
America is evil and terrible and we blackmail by refusing to give aid. What plane of existance are you on? Refusing to give somebody OUR OWN MONEY can not, by definition, be blackmail. ITS OUR MONEY NOT YOURS. Although I love how you think these countries are entilted to our money. Not to mention how YOUR OWN COUNTRY FEELS THEY ARE ASWELL!!!! If a country is solely dependant on US aid then they had damn well better do what we say. ITS OUR MONEY, NOT YOURS OR THERES!
You and them are entilted to NOTHING!!!!

seems you completely missed the whole story... after he was ..let's say "interrogated a little more harshly" (by a commission which was also seen on tv) about him beeing the main informant for the papers concerning the british gov's lies he was found dead in the woods a few days after that hearing...
there is nothing conspirational since nobody believes that somebody murdered him...it really seems he killed himself. his friends and colleagues said he couldn't stand the background pressure by the gov anymore...".

You want to tell the class about his personal life.
How about how he knew all these secrets and lies yet was simply a leak and not a full out opposition. Simple. HE WAS ******* LYING. Can you prove he was't or are you again just listening to your press as being accurate. Or bette yet, "his friends". Do you know how close these people were to him, can you say for certainty they even spoke to one another a month prior to his death!!! NO you can't you believed EXACTLY what the news told you, NIce work.

wrong. you were. but the usa is no more the country it was when 2nd world war was over... you seem to lack all the qualities you once had. freedom of speech, a free press , the rightousness of the american people,a great attitude towards people and many other things... they all seem to have disappeared. neither your motivations nor your methods can be trusted anymore.
you guys here remind me of those young palaestinian children running around in the streets screaming paroles, threatening to kill all the disbelievers and enemies...the next generation of the mentally handicaped stands in line for an everlasting competition of acquired hebetude. i'm afraid you have much more in common with terrorists than you'd like to believe....".

You mean small and unable to act globaly? Your right, we made the mistake of leaving the worlds issue to the europeans to take care of and TWICE they let it brew to all but legandary proportions of being ****** up!!! We were isolationist and we realized that the common European ideoligy of righouesness by lack of action would only cuase more s*** in the future. Guess, what, WE WERE RIGHT.
In the US anyone can say anyhting they want. Rather then be a terrorist these people can easily have voices to stop these so-called horrors we have commited. Yet they chose to kill inocent people. Yep that makes us the same all right. I can't tell you the last time I was mad at someone so I just killed there hole family becuase I didn't like what they said. If you are even close to saying what you think you are you'd better hope we never meet in person. To call a country of millions of different minds and ideoligies, all allowed freedom to vote and live as they chose even close to an organization thats only tactic is to just kill those they don't like, then you have nothing more of any relavent use here as you are simply a fool.

none at all; because (as you might have forgotten) the iraq is under heavy restrictions since 1991 and is intensively watched by officials and nearly any intelligence services... ....".

AND IT DID NOTHING!
So saddams people starved more, DO YOU THINK HE GAVE A s***!!!!
NOt to mention 2 of the countries "watching him" were fully arming him, Russia and France, Germany had dirty hand here too.

rofl, then pray that inspectors never come to the usa lol
....".

They are welcome too as there is no weapon the US is striclty forbiddened to have.

 

[1sty]

you name it... they were once used and've been shut down...and IF you had found something new it would have still been no reason for a war because if you find something: just take it away from them.easy as that.

THEY WERE NOT CHILDREN WITH A TOYs!
They would have to make these weapons, take them away and guess what, THEY MAKE MORE!!!!
OMFG what a concept!
Once they are intent on making them considering how heavily they were already watched on top of those developements being BANNED, then you can take away the produced weapons indeffinitly as they will only make more. Shut down a weapons plant and they will build another.
Once someone has decide to kill you, you have few options. Your only good one is to ensure they do not have the ability to do so.

yep,and that's exactly what i meant: citizens parish in the streets under your fire and you have nothing but mockery. do not not expect anyone to respect you for your bloodthirst.

These people you speak of are being held infront of soilders with guns at there back so they can be used as shields.
My friend in the original Gulf war had to kill a 5 year old girl becuase the iraq's gave her a live granade to give to our troops. THEY USED A BABY AS A BOMB!
And we are the ones with blood thirst.
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@micah:

The principles of nuclear deterrence is certainly frightening, but it seems it's the only possibilty to be safe from you maniacs...btw: there is a certain probability that china will step in if communist NK is attacked. Do yourself a big favor and do not let that happen.Please do not be so arrogant to believe you would win such a war // and you don't know who else might use the chance to jump in.

We are the maniacs!
WE PROTECT YOUR UNGRATEFUL ASS.
Why do you think the other half of you country is free, OR ANY OF IT FOR THAT MATTER!
China and NK are not exactly allies so likely any conlfict with the US and NK is on there own. Not to mention we can erase a country form our own which is something NK still can not.
Agian, the US will not ever engage in Nuckear war again. We have no need. If Korea grows as a threat then action will be taken, you should know this. However, as stated before, we are simply waiting them out at this point. Capitolism and democracy are stronger waepons then any bombs.

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@servoeyes:

man,be thankful i'm talking so straight about my thoughts because you're obviously defenceless against insidious rhetorics.

as i wrote in one of the older threads: i believe there's a big difference between europe and usa. since 2nd ww we all know what governments and the manipulation of people can cause...whenever the gov or massmedia comes up with stuff about "moral duties" and "why to do this and that" we get very cautious, no matter if in germany,france,britain or elsewhere (except italy and former eastern europe). for most people here it does not matter at all what the gov says..and following that tradition we do have a different attitude towards govs/massmedia...

You just spend 2 hours writing complete European media bulls***. This can be found anywhere in your media's. You are simply listening to them.
The US is the most diverse country in the world, PERIOD. More free thought flows here then any where esle. There is no limit to the level a idividual can achive. To say we are all to excepting is again idiotic at best. Look in the mirrior if you want exceptance.
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@AGR #11#26#27

what did you expect? they didn't call for you, you bomb them, you shoot civilians, you occupy their country and expect thankfulness for getting rid of saddam (which you didn't manage to until today!) ? if yes=you're absurd...

one thing i'd like to ask you guys:
if you watch tv and see mr. bush or mr. bumsfeld (lol,just a wordplay) talking to the people.... don't you (i really mean it) see that he's lying to you? that he's hiding so many things from you? don't you at least feel it ? are you NOT CAPABLE of that ???


whow..took me over 1,5hours to write..i should really enlarge my active vocabulary *PFUH* [/B][/QUOTE]

ABOUT WHAT!
Site one exactly spoken phrase that was a lie!


The simple fundamental thing you have yet to understand about america is we are one of the few countries left with a survival instinct. We will not be passive nor face the results of our inactions so millions can die. These people continualy attacked the US and were gearing up for more. They have been drasticly handicaped from being able to do that.
Since our 1st bomb dropped Saddam has been hidding. He was out of there that night. With in a week we had the country. If you forget the news reals, the US troops were out numbered 10/1 by Iraq's that were ripping down Saddam statues. Unlike that **** we did not hire peopel to protest for us, we did not threaten people for there believes. We did not kill people becuase of there difference of opinon. We only retaliated to ensure our lives, our family, friends and even ungrateful allies were safer.

 

[servoeyes]

To address some of your responses first:

I am Polish so I know the history of europe well. Listen to my language...it is a mutt conglomerate of Czech, Russian, and German. My family's homeland has been everyone's b****...it's impossible for me to even track my own geneology past my great grandparents. Also, I didn't mean to insinuate that germany did not exist before the wall came down. What I meant rather, is that, though Germany has a longstanding and beautiful culture and heritage, it is recovering from the it's past times of turmoil well...but still recovering I think. The nation IS a fairly young democracy and now it is being swallowed up by the EU. I feel that this will rather stifle the growth of the political establishment as a German democracy. Instead it will become a power struggle in the EU between the strongest members, and the little ones like Poland, Czech Rep., Moldova, etc. will be quited or bribed as they are in the UN today (by all the powerful member states) In other words, state politicing will become of less importance in the grand scheme. Look at what the french did to the Polish when they chose American jets over French ones just this past year...they cancel accounts/contracts and close industries. Is that a good way to play nice with your neighbors? Perhaps this is what Europe needs, a true ruling body uniting all of it's smaller states, but it just seems like it could get really messy.

In other news:
We do kick ass and we can and that because for the first time in relative history there is a unipolar power structure militarily. No one wants to take our place, no one wants to be on the opposite end. Control by fear or power is the way of the future. A French veto in the UN opposing a US action is a power struggle. Had all of the countries stood together and said "yes, saddam, you've waited too long...now is the time" then perhaps a peaceful resolution might have come. However, as we americans say, united we stand, divided we fall. It applies to the whole world community.

As for the dark part in us...listen...I don't like to think of anyone dying. I'd sure love to be a pacifist, but that would mean EVERYONE else would have to be, too. It's like marxism...unless you are completely self sufficient and there is no true ruling class then it just won't work. It is a model, a simulation. I am willing to stand up in a time of action, when talking has failed, when warning has failed. It doesn't mean that I thirst for blood to flow like wine from my lips...rather it means that I have exhausted the logical paths and am unwilling to surrender ground that has been gained. I don't know all the answers, and I never claim to. Rather, I simply disagree with portions of your point of view. (yes just portions. And I am always trying to be a better man, but I can assure you that I'm never going to be and neither will you...just like with cars, there's always somebody better.

 

[Smilin Marty]

Wow, I've been away too long. I just stumbled across this thread and there are some very good comments made on this topic. I applaud all of you, er...almost all, for backing up your thoughts. This has been some of the best reading on this topic i've seen on the web anywhere.

As for me...OOHRAH!! SEMPER FI(usa)

Oh yeah, I don't know if it's been pointed out yet, but didn't the Germans give the Marines the nickname of "DEVIL DOGS"? Hmm, I wonder why!!

 

[ghost]

OOOORAHHHH!!!! to that Marti! And a yut!yut! to the Coprs!(usa)

 

[Matthew]

damn you marines are you guys in or were in?

 

[ghost]

IN!!!!!!

 

[Micah]

it's a losing battle

 

[Micah]

from a blog - http://dearraed.blogspot.com/

:: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 ::

Remember the days when every time you hear an Iraqi talk on TV you had to remember that they are talking with a Mukhabarat minder looking at them noting every word? We are back to that place.

You have to be careful about what you say about al-Sadir. Their hands reach every where and you don't want to be on their s*** list. Every body, even the GC is very careful how they formulate their sentences and how they describe Sadir's Militias. They are thugs, thugs thugs. There you have it.

I was listening to a representative of al-sadir on TV saying that the officers at police stations come to offer their help and swear allegiance. Habibi, if they don't they will get killed and their police station "liberated". Have we forgotten the threat al-Sadir issued that Iraqi security forces should not attack their revolutionary brothers, or they will have to suffer the consequences.

Dear US administration,
Welcome to the next level. Please don't act surprised and what sort of timing is that: planning to go on a huge attack on the west of Iraq and provoking a group you know very well (I pray to god you knew) that they are trouble makers.

Oh and before I forget.........Help please.
:: salam 4:04 PM [+] ::
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