War Against IRAQ...FOR or AGAINST

[1sty]

Keep in mind we have bombers that can carry dozens of nuclear bombs that are LARGER in magnitude then those dropped on Heroshima. NK having Nukes isn't an issue for us. We could wipe them off the planet before breakfest. HOWEVER!!!
I do not believe you will ever see the US again use Nuclear weapons. Too many inocent people die and the fall out is cataclismic. Several countries still test the bastards even though its AMAZINGLY illegal according to international UN law. Just another reason the UN needs to be abandoned, atleast by us. If no one fallows the rules becuase there are no consequences if they don't then what the hell is the point.

Like Cuba, NK is just a matter of time. As long as we can keep there threat level donw then we can wait.

 

[Micah]

Yeah, nanotech looks pretty promising. Also there is that new steel which can work as a conductor and a resistor. Looks kinda like a honey-comb/helical structure type thing under a microscope. I forget what it's called, but it was in Popular Science a little while ago.

The space race bores me, I'd rather see us worry about caring for the planet we are on, then moving on to messing up one with a much less hospitable atmosphere. Besides, I'm pretty sure most of that will be long after I'm dead and gone. I'm looking forward to having a Terabyte or so of solid state memory (I'd say flash, but who knows if we will still be using it's current implementation by then) on a wrist watch. I download, archive, and encode mass quantities of video - been doing it for years. One day I'll pass on my collection to someone else. I do the same thing with old games and software, and it's quite a trick keeping updates of roms, and emulators. For now, my friends all know if they need anything - I either have it, or can find it.

 

[servoeyes]

I would never know you're from NH, 1sty....
It's nice to see someone who thinks for themselves about politics though instead of regurjitating rhetoric and conspiricy theories.

And yes....war sucks my german friend, but war is not pointless. If they made s*** up for people to believe then they were just wagging the dog as much as your gov't when they tried to cover the fact that they had a vested interest in Iraq as well. You're poeple are no less corrupt than ours, so please don't assume so. We will finish our work in Iraq as soon as possible, and then be on our merry way to bail somone else's ass out of a jam because no one else has the nut to (and then they hate us for doing it!)

 

[servoeyes]

Micah...the space race bores you!?!? Colonization is the most exciting thing in all of history, to me! You explore, hunt, fight and survive. Mars will begin being colonized before the first half of this century is up, but the moon will probably come first, even though that'll be harder. Besides...this planet can only do better through colonization; we are currently expanding well beyond it's capacity w/o a way to slow beyond mass killing and population control. Move people out, create jobs, push the boundaries of our solar system, then the galaxy, then the universe. The slower we do it the longer we survive. It can't be a boom because it'll flash itself out..."the light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long"

Anywho...I'm just a nut for this stuff if'n you couldn't tell

 

[Micah]

yeah, that's kewl. I used to be into that stuff, just lost interest as I got older. Trust me, between the ages of 18-24, I potentially lost a great deal of brain cells, it might be why I lost interest.

 

[1sty]

I would never know you're from NH, 1sty....
It's nice to see someone who thinks for themselves about politics though instead of regurjitating rhetoric and conspiricy theories.

And yes....war sucks my german friend, but war is not pointless. If they made s*** up for people to believe then they were just wagging the dog as much as your gov't when they tried to cover the fact that they had a vested interest in Iraq as well. You're poeple are no less corrupt than ours, so please don't assume so. We will finish ur work in Iraq as soon as possible, and then be on our merry way to bail somone else's ass out of a jam because no one else has the nut to (and then they hate us for doing it!)

NH has some very interestin people up this way. My foriegh polocy teacher in college was a former assistant Embassodor to the UN during the issues in Bosnia.
He had some VERY eye opening details on that one.
Its amazing how Amercans thinks we run the world sometimes but in many instances we are just someones grunts to go and clean up a situation when they realize rational thinking and human treatment doesn't do a damn thing for Pshyco dictators.

Bosnia was a REAL big one for me as much of my family is still over there. To see the European ass clowns demand us leave so they could argue while MILLIONS were slughtered and ***** until they realized they totaly ****** up and there was no words that would stop it. How some Governements can attemp diplomacy with a man that sets up **** camps as a war tactic is beyond me.

For Iraq, I still love these raving retards that say its about oil. Less then 5% of the US oil is form Iraq, so we could give a damn less about it. Suadi Arabia is our friend there. NO to mention we mostly use NON-OPEC states for oil. HOWEVER!!! Look where most of Frances oil comes from. Now consider they knew damn well that the Iraq's would set the wells on fire. Is it any wonder they didn't want us in there.
Also don't forget the arsenals of Frech and Russian weapons found in Iraq that were bannded by THOSE VERY COUNTRIES!!!!

For now I think the US needs to withdraw from the UN as a major participating member. Let them deal with issues. If they refuse to act we are always there and ready to move. Kind of like a watch dog. They dick around to much they have us to worry about. If there rules aren't enforced and we believe they should be then HERE WE COME!!!!!!

(USA)

 

[AGR]

At this point.......

I think we should just turn Iraq into a sheet of glass. **** Em'! We sure as hell don't need to lose any more troops. Their a bunch of ungrateful assholes.

 

[1sty]

I am with Micah on the space push. It needs to be quelled.
Exploration is costing far to much from what it yeilds.
Also Population control has an interesting way of being enforced.
Keep in mind the most populated countries are standing on a powerder KEG. Indai and China have been itching for years to go at it. Considering there aresenals you could see 1/10th the population of th eworld wiped out in a matter of a year. Also These countries are border bound, they can not grow so the populations piles up on itself and kills itself off. The human thing would be to slip steralizers in the water system so these people can't reproduce and cuase more wasted life to poverty and certain death.

 

[servoeyes]

Eh...The problem still continues. The natural resources that can be found during exploration make it more than viable economically...and they open up new livable space to ship the impoverished out to, to get them to work and a better life instead of certain death. If you feel that exploration as NASA does it doesn't yield comprehensive gains, then you're pretty much on the level. Joe Blow will never know what NASA's done for the world, becuase NASA's focus is as a non-profit research organization. However, private industry will lead the way in making the common man relevant, because it needs to.

 

[1sty]

NASA has pioneered MANY useful technologies but I think that same focus can simply be refocused here. For example find a new resource supply, gives us more resource for sure but does nothing to make the use of that resource more efficient. Only haveing to survive with what we have will cause that.

 

[Micah]

'Soylent Green is made of People'

 

[servoeyes]

ha! Good quote!

My other point here is that just because the resources are available to us, it doesn't mean that we will only rely on them. We still have lots of different resources and we're trying to find more effecient uses. Rather, because these resources may be hard to produce initially during colonization and commercialization, the efficiecy rate at which we utilize them must be increased. My view is that a push into space will bring a technological boom much as the colonization of the Americas produced.

SO who's with me???......no one? Hmmm...how about now:

Nana-nana-nana-nana-Leader!

 

[TStar]

[i guess that's what you call thread-jacking... open your own thread for mars colonisation or whatever pls]

@ 1st MP3 in NH
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Who was lied to? They said they wer going to take that POS out of power and I said, "damn! about time go **** his s*** up!!"

it seems your memory is a little short...
you were lied to...about the reasons of the 2 wars and about the "actual threat" for the usa (last one was a real roflmao).. but unfortunately the usa was one of 5 countries which's majority seemed to believed their regime's lies.the rest of the world was a little more clever.

just a short game of memory:
the reason starting war in afghanistan was to find bin laden/consorts and then beat the supporters of international terrorism. and when there was no proof the reason changed to "freeing those poor people" from the taliban regime...
the reason starting war in iraq was to eliminate saddam hussein's support for muslim terrorists.... and when there was no proof for that the reason changed to the imminent threat coming from saddam hussein's weapons of mass destruction.... and when there was no proof for that the reason changed to "freeing those poor people" from the saddam regime....

if it wasn't so cynical & sad it would be really funny... persuading you "patriotic" citizens seems easier than conditioning chimpanzees to munch a piece of sugar.

i don't know...maybe it's very american to change the reason for war one day by another but one thing is obvious: if you change your reasons for acting and do not talk about the "old" reasons anymore, you seem to have realized that the old reasons were...wrong. you could also say that changing reasons randomly is a helpless attempt to show others that your actions are justified. i'm pretty sure you defend the last reason (freeing abc of xyz) because it feeds your heroic picture of yourself .
but one thing you haven't even recognized: the freeing of xyz is ultraselective. i wonder why the us govs decides to "free" only countries which fit their geopolitical plans...obviously they don't give a s*** about suffering people if the country is geopolitically uninteresting... and that makes the whole [bunch of reasons] untrustworthy.

The Phrase is BRIBE

i'm pretty sure the phrase for threatening countries to stop all economical help which they're dependent on for many years is called "blackmailing", not "bribing".

david kelly / Oh thats why he did...

seems you completely missed the whole story... after he was ..let's say "interrogated a little more harshly" (by a commission which was also seen on tv) about him beeing the main informant for the papers concerning the british gov's lies he was found dead in the woods a few days after that hearing...
there is nothing conspirational since nobody believes that somebody murdered him...it really seems he killed himself. his friends and colleagues said he couldn't stand the background pressure by the gov anymore...

We never were trusted!

wrong. you were. but the usa is no more the country it was when 2nd world war was over... you seem to lack all the qualities you once had. freedom of speech, a free press , the rightousness of the american people,a great attitude towards people and many other things... they all seem to have disappeared. neither your motivations nor your methods can be trusted anymore.
you guys here remind me of those young palaestinian children running around in the streets screaming paroles, threatening to kill all the disbelievers and enemies...the next generation of the mentally handicaped stands in line for an everlasting competition of acquired hebetude. i'm afraid you have much more in common with terrorists than you'd like to believe.
[

This one is generaly funny. Lets see how many years did t...

none at all; because (as you might have forgotten) the iraq is under heavy restrictions since 1991 and is intensively watched by officials and nearly any intelligence services...

Not to mention we have uncovered an array of illegal and banned weapons

rofl, then pray that inspectors never come to the usa lol

not to mention the factories used and stocked to creat biolocical and chemical weapons

you name it... they were once used and've been shut down...and IF you had found something new it would have still been no reason for a war because if you find something: just take it away from them.easy as that.

**** WITH THE USA AND DIE

yep,and that's exactly what i meant: citizens parish in the streets under your fire and you have nothing but mockery. do not not expect anyone to respect you for your bloodthirst.

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@micah:

While I have no doubts that the US armed forces would win in a war against NK; I am sure the losses would be great, not to mention the possibility of nukes being used

The principles of nuclear deterrence is certainly frightening, but it seems it's the only possibilty to be safe from you maniacs...btw: there is a certain probability that china will step in if communist NK is attacked. Do yourself a big favor and do not let that happen.Please do not be so arrogant to believe you would win such a war // and you don't know who else might use the chance to jump in.
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@servoeyes:

It's nice to see someone who thinks for themselves about politics ...

man,be thankful i'm talking so straight about my thoughts because you're obviously defenceless against insidious rhetorics.

If they made s*** up for people to believe then they were just wagging the dog as much as your gov...

as i wrote in one of the older threads: i believe there's a big difference between europe and usa. since 2nd ww we all know what governments and the manipulation of people can cause...whenever the gov or massmedia comes up with stuff about "moral duties" and "why to do this and that" we get very cautious, no matter if in germany,france,britain or elsewhere (except italy and former eastern europe). for most people here it does not matter at all what the gov says..and following that tradition we do have a different attitude towards govs/massmedia...

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@AGR #11#26#27

Their a bunch of ungrateful assholes.

what did you expect? they didn't call for you, you bomb them, you shoot civilians, you occupy their country and expect thankfulness for getting rid of saddam (which you didn't manage to until today!) ? if yes=you're absurd...

one thing i'd like to ask you guys:
if you watch tv and see mr. bush or mr. bumsfeld (lol,just a wordplay) talking to the people.... don't you (i really mean it) see that he's lying to you? that he's hiding so many things from you? don't you at least feel it ? are you NOT CAPABLE of that ???


whow..took me over 1,5hours to write..i should really enlarge my active vocabulary *PFUH*

 

[TStar]

and before i forget... some little list for you lovable "peacekeepers" out there

here comes a list of military "interventions" the usa started/took part in since ww2

----------------------------
Korea-Krieg: 27. Juni 1950 bis 27. Juli 1953
Suez-Krise: gypten, 26. Juli 1956 bis 15. November 1956
Operation "Blue Bat": Libanon, 15. Juli 1958 bis 20. Oktober 1958
Taiwan-Strae: 23. August 1958 bis 1. Juni 1963
Kongo: 14. Juli 1960 bis 1. September 1962
Operation "Tailwind": Laos, 1970
Operation "Ivory Coast/Kingoin": Nordvietnam, 21. November 1970
Operation "Endweep": Nordvietnam, 27. Januar 1972 bis 27. Juli 1973
Operation "Linebacker I": Nordvietnam, 10. Mai 1972 bis 23. Oktober 1972
Operation "Linebacker II": Nordvietnam, 18. Dezember 1972 bis 29. Dezember 1972
Operation "Pocket Money": Nordvietnam, 9. Mai 1972 bis 23. Oktober 1972
Operation "Freedom Train": Nordvietnam, 6. April 1972 bis 10. Mai 1972
Operation "Arc Light": Sdostasien, 18. Juni 1965 bis April 1970
Operation "Rolling Thunder": Sdvietnam, 24. Februar 1965 bis Oktober 1968
Operation "Ranch Hand": Sdvietnam, Januar 1962 bis Januar 1971
Kuba-Krise: weltweit, 24. Oktober 1962 bis 1. Juni 1963
Operation "Powerpack": Dominikanische Republik, 28. April 1965 bis 21. September 1966
Sechs-Tage-Krieg: Mittlerer Osten, 13. Mai 1967 bis 10. Juni 1967
Operation "Nickel Grass": Mittlerer Osten, 6. Oktober 1973 bis 17. November 1973
Operation "Eagle Pull": Kambodscha, 11. April 1975 bis 13. April 1975
Operation "Freequent Wind": Evakuierung in Sdvietnam, 26. April 1975
bis 30. April 1975
Operation "Mayaguez": Kambodscha, 15. Mai 1975
Operationen "Eagle Claw/Desert One": Iran, 25. April 1980
El Salvador, Nikaragua: 1. Januar 1981 bis 1. Februar 1992
Operation "Golf von Sidra": Libyen, 18. August 1981
US-Multinational Force: Libanon, 25. August 1982 bis 11. Dezember 1987
Operation "Urgent Fury": Grenada, 23. Oktober 1982 bis 21. November 1983
Operation "Attain Document": Libyen, 26. Januar 1986 bis 29. Mrz 1986
Operation "El Dorado Canyon": Libyen, 12. April 1986 bis 17. April 1986
Operation "Blast Furnace": Bolivien, Juli 1986 bis November 1986
Operation "Ernest Will": Persischer Golf, 24. Juli 1987 bis 2. August 1990
Operation "Praying Mantis": Persischer Golf, 17. April 1988 bis 19. April 1988
Operation "Just Cause": Panama, 20. Dezember 1989 bis 31. Januar 1990
Operation "Nimrod Dancer": Panama, Mai 1989 bis 20. Dezember 1989
Operation "Promote Liberty": Panama, 31. Januar 1990
Operation "Ghost Zone": Bolivien, Mrz 1990 bis 1993
Operation "Sharp Edge": Liberia, Mai 1990 bis 8. Januar 1991
Operation "Desert Farewell": Sdwest-Asien, 1. Januar 1992 bis 1992
Operation "Desert Calm": "Sdwest-Asien, 1. Mrz 1991 bis 1. Januar 1992
Operation "Desert Shield": 2. August 1990 bis 17. Januar 1991
Operation "Desert Storm": Irak, 17. Januar 1991 bis 28. Februar 1991
Operation "Eastern Exit": Somalia, 2. Januar 1991 bis 11. Januar 1991
Operation "Productiv Effort/Sea Angel": Bangladesh, Mai 1991 bis Juni 1991
Operation "Fiery Vigil": Philippinen, 1. bis 30. Juni 1991
Operation "Victor Squared": Haiti, 1. bis 30. September 1991
Operation "Quick Lift": Zaire, 24. September 1991 bis 7. Oktober 1991
Operation "Silver Anvil": Sierra Leone, 2. Mai 1992 bis 5. Mai 1992
Operation "Distant Runner": Ruanda, 9. April 1994 bis 15. April 1994
Operationen "Quiet Resolve"/"Support Hope": Ruanda, 22. Juli 1994 bis 30. September 1994
Operation "Uphold/Restore Democracy": Haiti, 19. September 1994 bis 31. Mrz 1995
Operation "United Shield": Somalia, 22. Januar 1995 bis 25. Mrz 1995
Operation "Assured Response": Liberia, April 1996 bis August 1996
Operation "Quick Response": Zentralafrikanische Republik, Mai 1996 bis August 1996
Operation "Guardian Assistance": Zaire/Ruanda/Uganda, 15. November 1996 bis 27. Dezember 1996
Operation "Pacific Haven/Quick Transit": Irak - Guam, 15. September 1996 bis 16. Dezember 1996
Operation "Guardian Retrieval": Kongo, Mrz 1997 bis Juni 1997
Operation "Noble Obelisk": Sierra Leone, Mai 1997 bis Juni 1997
Operation "Bevel Edge": Kambodscha, Juli 1997
Operation "Noble Response": Kenia, 21. Januar 1998 bis 25. Mrz 1998
Operation "Shepherd Venture": Guinea-Bissau, 10. Juni 1998 bis 17. Juni 1998
Operation "Infinite Reach": Sudan/Afghanistan, 20. bis 30. August 1998
Operation "Golden Pheasant": Honduras, ab Mrz 1988
Operation "Safe Border": Peru/Ekuador, ab 1995
Operation "Laser Strike": Sdafrika, ab 1. April 1996
Operation "Steady State": Sdamerika, 1994 bis April 1996
Operation "Support Justice": Sdamerika, 1991 bis 1994
Operation "Wipeout": Hawaii, ab 1990
Operation "Coronet Oak": Zentral- und Sdamerika, Oktober 1977 bis 17. Februar 1999
Operation "Coronet Nighthawk": Zentral- und Sdamerika, ab 1991
Operation "Desert Falcon": Saudi Arabien, ab 31. Mrz 1991
Operation "Northern Watch": Kurdistan, ab 31. Dezember 1996
Operation "Provide Comfort": Kurdistan, 5. April 1991 bis Dezember 1994
Operation "Provide Comfort II": Kurdistan, 24. Juli 1991 bis 31. Dezember 1996
Operation "Vigilant Sentine I": Kuwait, ab August 1995
Operation "Vigilant Warrior": Kuwait, Oktober 1994 bis November 1994
Operation "Desert Focus": Saudi Arabien, ab Juli 1996
Operation "Phoenix Scorpion I": Irak, ab November 1997
Operation "Phoenix Scorpion II": Irak, ab Februar 1998
Operation "Phoenix Scorpion III": Irak, ab November 1998
Operation "Phoenix Scorpion IV": Irak, ab Dezember 1998
Operation "Desert Strike": Irak, 3. September 1996; Cruise Missile-Angriffe: Irak, 26. Juni 1993, 17. Januar 1993, Bombardements: Irak, 13. Januar 1993
Operation "Desert Fox": Irak, 16. Dezember 1998 bis 20. Dezember 1998
Operation "Provide Promise": Bosnien, 3. Juli 1992 bis 31. Mrz 1996
Operation "Decisive Enhancement": Adria, 1. Dezember 1995 bis 19. Juni 1996
Operation "Sharp Guard": Adria, 15. Juni 1993 bis Dezember 1995
Operation "Maritime Guard": Adria, 22. November 1992 bis 15. Juni 1993
Operation "Maritime Monitor": Adria, 16. Juli 1992 bis 22. November 1992
Operation "Sky Monitor": Bosnien-Herzegowina, ab 16. Oktober 1992
Operation "Deliberate Forke": Bosnien-Herzegowina, ab 20. Juni 1998
Operation "Decisive Edeavor/Decisive Edge": Bosnien-Herzegowina, Januar 1996 bis Dezember 1996
Operation "Deny Flight": Bosnien, 12. April 1993 bis 20. Dezember 1995
Operation "Able Sentry": Serbien-Mazedonien, ab 5. Juli 1994
Operation "Nomad Edeavor": Taszar, Ungarn, ab Mrz 1996
Operation "Nomad Vigil": Albanien, 1. Juli 1995 bis 5. November 1996
Operation "Quick Lift": Kroatien, Juli 1995
Operation "Deliberate Force": Republika Srpska, 29. August 1995 bis 21. September 1995
Operation "Joint Forge": ab 20. Juni 1998
Operation "Joint Guard": Bosnien-Herzegowina, 20. Juni 1998
Operation "Joint Edeavor": Bosnien-Herzegowina, Dezember 1995 bis Dezember 1996
Operation "Determined Effort": Bosnien, Juli 1995 bis Dezember 1995
Operation "Determined Falcon": Kosovo/Albanien, 15. Juni 1998 bis 16. Juni 1998
Operation "Eagle Eye": Kosovo, 16. Oktober 1998 bis 24. Mrz 1999
Operation "Sustain Hope/Allied Harbour": Kosovo, ab 5. April 1999
Operation "Shining Hope": Kosovo, ab 5. April 1999
Operation "Cobalt Flash": Kosovo, ab 23. Mrz 1999
Operation "Determined Force": Kosovo, 8. Oktober 1998 bis 23. Mrz 1999
----------------------------

you're one peace loving country...really.

 

[servoeyes]

1) Did you start this thread? No! So why does it matter if I hijacked it for a couple seconds?

2) What has your country and your people done for peace if the last century other than disturbed it? You do not hold a vital role in the UN, and you couldn't even get out from under communism until the 80's. Your political and social landscapes will change over the next century becuase you are a new democracy.

3) Don't be so righteous...You seem to feel that your opinion is the only one that counts on here, and that anyone who disagrees is wrong. Well you haven't presented me with any evidence to prove well enough to my satisfaction that I'm wrong. That is freedom of opinion.

4) Of the above listed interventions, tell me how many were humanitarian and sactioned by the "world governing body", or the UN. Then tell me how many of these interventions your contry also supported.

5) Several of these older "interventions" were results of the geopolitical climate at the time. Today we deal with a brash, guerilla-style, fight-dirty, kill anyone that isn't us - type of enemy (any yes they hate you too, Yuri) and we can look at the past to relate those previous errors/misjudgments/successes to our current situation. We HAVE learned, but there is always a long way to go...because something new will always be there. Someone will always hate america for what it is. Someone will always hate britain, germany, france, italy, south africa, japan, korea....name your country. Someone will always hate you. Just look at Africa; seemed pretty peaceful through the 80's except for S. Africa (which was unstable thanks to german and dutch "settlers"!). Now look: they can't get along from country to country...warlords have overrun political parties, overpopulation strains and stretches borders. But in time, with effort and help from the GLOBAL community (not just the US...where's the UN in liberia????) it will pass.

That's all I can really say. If you hate me and my country then I'll just add you to the list, Yuri. Honestly...it's water off my back. I know where I am, I know what my freedoms are, and I *do* think for myself.

 

[Matthew]

well everyone who frequents this board knows im in the US Army, so im gonna try to not get involved in this convo because ill start swearing at the asshole from germany, but thanks to those of you that supported us over there.

 

[TStar]

servoeyes:

Did you start this thread? No! So why does it matter if I hijacked it for a couple seconds?

it matters to me since it's one of the very few serious subjects on this board...

What has your country and your people done for peace if the last century other than disturbed it? You do not hold a vital role in the UN, and you couldn't even get out from under communism until the 80's.

the UN was founded right after 2nd ww because it was the best proof that single countries couldnt get together and solve their problems peacefully besides the fact there is a lot of inequity in the correlation between the countries/continents which have to be worked on....this institution is based on communication and agreement because that's the only way you can achieve those goals and sometimes they have to make hard decisions when there is no other way than military intervention.
the UN is no playground and it's not a big multimediashow with celebs and bigmouths... if you don't take want to take notice or understand what people work on there then don't try to judge them by your scales...

you couldn't even get out from under communism until the 80's

that's impertinent...look at the past proplery.it was NOT the germans who said "yes" when the russians claimed the eastern part of germany as their territory after ww2... and do you think we wouldn't have fought for unification if we were allowed to???...west germany got its autonomy back in the very late 80s...until that time the french,the british,the americans and the russians decided everything essential that this country could do or could not do...

Your political and social landscapes will change over the next century because you are a new democracy

that kind of wicked nescience about european countries makes me a little sad, but from that i can at least try to understand how you see the europeans. do you think that germany started to exist in 1945? what do you guys think we've done over the last 1600 years? we've had it all...the country you know as germany was a protectorate of the roman empire, it was a kingdom,it was an empire itself ,it was a conjunction of princedoms, it was a federation of free states a.s.o... in 1945 we did not start democracy as some kind of first trial, we just continued what was interrupted in 1933 by hitler. ask the italians about mussolini or ask the spanish about franco, both fascistic dictators in the beginning/middle of the 20th century but don't you believe that their democracies are just 50 years old or something...
and of course the "landscape" will change in european countries, but almost 2000 years of serious cultural development offer an excellent backup for this journey and it provides us a deeper sensivity about where certain actions will lead us to...don't worry about the european countries or their community. it might sound strange but several wars, mixed/connected dynasties and national migrations have ended up in the federation of states you know as "the european union", and despite of dissensions it's much more stable than you might think... and now it's time expand to the east. it's time we get nations like the polish and the czechs back into the club.

Don't be so righteous...You seem to feel that your opinion is

this is not a "you have your opinion and i have mine" game... those questions already decided over so many thousand lives in the last years and they will decide over many lives in the future... i'm so angry because supporters of such "politics" make the killing possible. that's why i see them as complices of those 18-25y old whippersnapper soldiers who do nothing else but to laugh viciously while their victims peg out in the streets. so from my point of view there is no reason to be indulging towards those people. they belong to the worst beeings on earth i can imagine.

Of the above listed interventions, tell me how many were humanitarian....

well, if you understand "humanitarian" in a narrow sense: i can remember two locations where the us forces' main intention was to help: ruanda and kosovo/albania...as far as i can remember: that's it. german soldiers were in ruanda/kongo, they were spread in former yugoslavia and they're still in afghanistan (unfortunately).

Several of these older "interventions" were results of the geopolitical climate at the time

that's no justification and no excuse and i'd really prefer to translate "intervention" to "war strike"..seems more honest to me.

Today we deal with a brash, guerilla-style, fight-dirty, kill anyone that isn't us type of enemy

veto! war always was and always will be dirty by any available methods. i've never seen or heard of a "clean" war... (unless you listen to politicians, but the truth hurts like a stab in the back)

Someone will always hate britain, germany, france, italy, south africa, japan, korea....name your country. someone will always hate you

it's not as easy as that. we're not talking about this "dislike" kind of hate which is uneasy but not dangerous to anyone. actually it is those (we would say) "unpaid bills" from the past that makes a really dangerous relation between countries/people... like spain has to suffer from the ETA because spain's still not willing to make up for the raiding, the humiliation and the killing in the basque region. and as long there is no excuse and this injustice is defended stubbornly,there will be no peace. same with england and the IRA. but within europe, it's just those 2 countries who still have these problems...the rest of us got even. we really get along with each other even we do not really love one another...we don't even hate the turks for trying to run over europe in 1680 but we're still cautious about their potential membership in the EU.

and as it seems the usa has quite a lot those unpaid bills... don't you say you don't know about the reasons for that (just look at the examples above). 911 didn't hit the usa for nothing and [no!], it won't happen to us as long as we try to treat other countries/people with the respect they earn. and if the english or the spanish (what coincidence, look above again) join you in this unjustified war, then they will have to face the consequences...that's the whole deal.

Just look at Africa; seemed pretty peaceful through the 80's...

as long as i can remember africa (except the very nothern part) was a mess (yes,and except the "apartheid" RSA). and all of the former european conqueror countries and the usa are guilty of what's happening there. africa is drowning in civil wars, famines and aids and i don't have the slightest idea where to start to solve these problems. seems nobody else does either.... frequently exempting african countries from their debts and carting over food and medicine never helped... can't say anything more, no clue.

That's all I can really say. If you hate me and my country then I'll just add you to the list, Yuri. Honestly...it's water off my back. I know where I am, I know what my freedoms are, and I *do* think for myself.

don't you still get the point??? i do not hate america, i don't hate the people and i don't hate you....but i do hate the dark part in you all which says "YES!" to violence,humiliation and the belief in omnipotence so willingly; and i cannot understand why you don't take this one step forward and get away from this attitude to try to become a better man, that's all.

@razor:

because ill start swearing at the asshole from germany

(uhm) somewhere between annoying and a compliment ...you could at least address me directly if you try to insult me but i guess verbal communication is not really a soldier's skill (see?that was a decent but direct insult!)
and if you don't wanna get involved...just don't make such half-baked comments from the outside..i will pull you in immediately.

but maybe you're lucky and you can come back one day because there's a good reason to start a war against us europeans...then you will be able to fullfil your needs and kill me.

 

[ghost]

Hey Brandon, Its time to kill this thread b4 I ride to Germany and give this asshole a Colombian Necktie for good notice. Any way, Ill tell you the truth. We are not peace loving people, we are people that do not take s*** from anyone. We go around the world ank kick ass! If you dont like it tough! If you look at my avatar there are four letters, these leters bring fear to our enemies around the world. Nobody kills as many fucktars as we do for a living year round. Oh well, when it comes to terrorists,NAZI's,comunists and so on, Violence is the answer!!
And keep them coming, who else will we shoot at if they are gone?

God Bless the USA!
Semper fi!

 

[TStar]

thanx for the straight talk.

btw: do you really believe you could annoy me with this "NAAAAAZIIII" allusions? gladly it's the past and we skipped that : it's over. we're immune.

 

[ghost]

Man, I wasnt talking about you. I would not go that low and call you that. Asshole , yes. But no one deserves to be compared to the closest thing to the devil that has ever been on earth. If you think that was ment for you, I apologize. Your an ASSHOLE not a Nazi!!