Vendor and Consumer Protection Guidelines

[insanoman2005]

This thread and Linuxs' reply to shadows post has made me ask myself if it's really worth it to continue with my endeavors. I spent a shitload of my own money and time (and others donated as well) to see that I could offer something to this community that NO'ONE else has. This isn't a decal kit or ground kit that can be had anywhere. Hell there are even multiple turbo kits to choose from. I went out on a limb and invested over a year of my life into this project....and NOT just for myself. If I was building a blower for my own personal use it would've been done about 8 months ago with different hardware.

My point is this:
I made a product because I was told it couldn't be done and people were asking for it. However, based on personal skirmishes I've been branded the worst vendor on the internet even though I've had nothing but praise spoken about me, my GB's , and my stuff. When I looked into selling the SC kit Ken and I got together and decided we would sell everything through Protegegarage (supporting a vendor) and he would be the middle man selling MY product. This is not anyone else's stuff but my own. I'm the manufacturer I guess you could say. Ken is the vendor. Ken can't answer all of the questions about MY product in a timely manner so in my browsing I try to give updates or answer questions. How many current manufacturers actually answer tech questions on here? I know of about 3 in total. This should be encouraged not condimned.

The countless crap thrown my way by the mods/admin give me NO reason to continue to create product for this group. I've given some thought to only selling to people from other forums as a way to protest but in the end it dawned on me. You guys treat me (other vendors) like s*** and we'll go somewhere else. I'm working on 4 kits right now for people that I'm selling at my cost....that means I'll have made 5 custom kits out of my pocket and made $0.00 on it. I'm also looking to now make blowers for the miata and NA rx7's possibly even the rx8....notice I quickly dropped blower for the 2.3L engine I was going to work on next. There's no incentive for me or anyone else for this matter to put up with the kind of bulls*** I have to put up with on here.

All I asked for was to be treated fairly and I'd do what I needed to do (when the time came) to follow all of the guidlines of this forums AV status. Instead of being treated fairly I was ignored and subsequently banned or purgatoried or whatever.

Seems like if you people in charge want to attract more vendors you should start by not screwing with the ones you have.

p.s. nowhere EVER will you be able to find anyone who says I'm a bad vendor or gave bad service.

 

[UnNaturalinc]

That's very unfortunate, Insanoman.....

I have not had anything to near that degree. I've had an overall good experience here on this board I would say. I did have a similar situation when I was trying to produce an intercooler kit however. Very little positive feedback from people. I was told I better not be ripping off/knocking off other product on the small Mazda community. I took offense to that because I've been a direct part of the Mazda community for over 5 years now. I've developed, R&D, tested, etc a number of products on the market today. Most of the time that stuff takes is not paid for... it's all for "fun" so to speak. If it's no longer fun for me I'm not going to waste my time doing it. That's unfortunate for the people who do want product and appreciate the time involved.

I do appreciate all my faithful supporters (for lack of a better term) on this board however. There's some great people on here!

 

[Antoine]

This thread and Linuxs' reply to shadows post has made me ask myself if it's really worth it to continue with my endeavors. I spent a shitload of my own money and time (and others donated as well) to see that I could offer something to this community that NO'ONE else has. This isn't a decal kit or ground kit that can be had anywhere. Hell there are even multiple turbo kits to choose from. I went out on a limb and invested over a year of my life into this project....and NOT just for myself. If I was building a blower for my own personal use it would've been done about 8 months ago with different hardware.

My point is this:
I made a product because I was told it couldn't be done and people were asking for it. However, based on personal skirmishes I've been branded the worst vendor on the internet even though I've had nothing but praise spoken about me, my GB's , and my stuff. When I looked into selling the SC kit Ken and I got together and decided we would sell everything through Protegegarage (supporting a vendor) and he would be the middle man selling MY product. This is not anyone else's stuff but my own. I'm the manufacturer I guess you could say. Ken is the vendor. Ken can't answer all of the questions about MY product in a timely manner so in my browsing I try to give updates or answer questions. How many current manufacturers actually answer tech questions on here? I know of about 3 in total. This should be encouraged not condimned.

The countless crap thrown my way by the mods/admin give me NO reason to continue to create product for this group. I've given some thought to only selling to people from other forums as a way to protest but in the end it dawned on me. You guys treat me (other vendors) like s*** and we'll go somewhere else. I'm working on 4 kits right now for people that I'm selling at my cost....that means I'll have made 5 custom kits out of my pocket and made $0.00 on it. I'm also looking to now make blowers for the miata and NA rx7's possibly even the rx8....notice I quickly dropped blower for the 2.3L engine I was going to work on next. There's no incentive for me or anyone else for this matter to put up with the kind of bulls*** I have to put up with on here.

All I asked for was to be treated fairly and I'd do what I needed to do (when the time came) to follow all of the guidlines of this forums AV status. Instead of being treated fairly I was ignored and subsequently banned or purgatoried or whatever.

Seems like if you people in charge want to attract more vendors you should start by not screwing with the ones you have.

p.s. nowhere EVER will you be able to find anyone who says I'm a bad vendor or gave bad service.

What's up Matty...We had let you back in after being banished for being a GRADE A ASSHOLE...I let you develop/expose your WOMP system with the help of this community and gave you a chance to market it with Ken...you didn't end up in Purgatory (a sort of holding forum for trouble makers) out of spite...No one is "out to get you"...The problem is not with the Admin/Mods...it's with you...your incapable of conducting your self in a non offensive manner...I thought you finally were and I was very interested in seeing your WOMP project come to life...I still am...

The bottom line is...people love to b**** about anything and everything...IF you let them...It's time to listen to what your Mother always said...if you don't have anything nice (or CONSTRUCTIVE) to say...THEN DON'T F'in SAY IT! or use PM!!!

I'm going to work on a questionnaire for the vendors to get some real feedback on this problem...I'll post the rough draft here...less talk more action people!

 

[insanoman2005]

I let you develop/expose your WOMP system with the help of this community and gave you a chance to market it with Ken.

oh, you LET me do this...how ******* gracious of you. You've been SUPER-supportive during the process.

..you didn't end up in Purgatory out of spite......your incapable of conducting your self in a non offensive manner...

ok so why am I being "punished" after months of smooth sailing?? Tell me again how you're being fair or treating me like someone that you want some respect from. Give respect if you want to get it in return. Treat me like a child or piece of s*** and I'm going to dish it back 10 fold...

I'm going to work on a questionnaire for the vendors to get some real feedback on this problem...

So you don't think my issues are legit? I'm not considered a "real" vendor so my problems aren't real. The fact still stands that I've gathered a lot of steam, more than you'd probably like to admit, and those who are looking forward to my stuff are going to have no'one to blame but the current admins on this forum if I pack my bag and leave. You have some serious thinking to do about what it's worth to you to try to prove a point. Do you wanna be the one to tell your members that you ran off a vendor with a one-of-a-kind product that people are craving?? If so, I don't think you have ANY right to create these threads crying about members running off vendors. Whatever your personal beef is with me there's never been a problem with my sales or customer service. All of these issues with are old and being brought up by only a few people...the masses want me to sell stuff. Balls in your court. How do you wanna play it?

 

[Matthew]

he doesnt really car ein the end matt. in the end, he isnt profitting from you staying or leaving. we can speculate as to such and such amount of people leaving, but nothing that someone else searching google isnt going to replace.

 

[Kooldino]

So you don't think my issues are legit? I'm not considered a "real" vendor so my problems aren't real. The fact still stands that I've gathered a lot of steam, more than you'd probably like to admit,

A lot of steam? You sold 5 kits. Come back down to reality.

and those who are looking forward to my stuff are going to have no'one to blame but the current admins on this forum if I pack my bag and leave.

No, you'll be to blame because you're not holding up your end of the bargain. Admitted, you've been better than in the past, but you bring it on yourself, dude. If you don't like it, go ahead. Leave. But you won't leave, because your forum doesn't have the user base that ours does.

You have some serious thinking to do about what it's worth to you to try to prove a point. Do you wanna be the one to tell your members that you ran off a vendor with a one-of-a-kind product that people are craving??

YOU are to blame. Not US. YOU are running off real vendors who actually have more than a one off product and sell more than 5.

If so, I don't think you have ANY right to create these threads crying about members running off vendors. Whatever your personal beef is with me there's never been a problem with my sales or customer service.

Last I heard, people were waiting longer than expected for their WOMP kits. You've had yours running for months, so what's the hold up?

Sorry if I seem harsh, but cut the bulls***...don't put the blame on us. There's a reason you're in the position you're in...and it's not because we all decided to gang up on you after picking your name out of a hat.

 

[Antoine]

YOU are to blame. Not US. YOU are running off real vendors who actually have more than a one off product and sell more than 5.

Exactly...Thanks for chiming in KD because you know frankly I can't be bothered to deal with you anymore matty...and I feel there a lot of people that are just tired of you and your antics...good or bad...or whatever...BS is still BS...no matter how you word it...

Leave. But you won't leave, because your forum doesn't have the user base that ours does.

and you know it...

Anyway...no more wasting time on matty (I will delete any further off-topic posts)...back to the topic at hand...I'll try to get that questionnaire going sometime this week.

 

[TurfBurn]

It's also a major issue for this forum for vendors offering competing products to be able to so in a non-confrontational manner. It is also pretty much impossible to ever say why your product is "better" or not without getting accused of vendor bashing or having "groupies" jump in on threads and go nuts. I've seen way too many threads of that nature and way too much of it from nearly all of our major vendors. Even when the threads and the comments are well intended much of it goes downhill very quickly. If I ever posted a thread saying that Microtech was better than the others because of X and Y then I'll have 15 people in that thread in 20 minutes saying I'm an ass and that I'm bashing other vendors etc. THAT is inappropriate. however I do believe that it is necessary and important for the vendor be able to rep their product against a claim I'd make. I'd want to be able to do the same. The problem we have in many ways is a lot of "groupie" mentality and over loyalty by members of the forums. If NSN, MPI, HiBoost, MAM and HPFreks are all marketing a +20hp carbon fiber sticker there WILL be vendor bashing by groupies about how one of the above +20 carbon stickers is far superior to the others and how could you dare ever claim otherwise... I've seen that to be the single biggest cancer to vendors on this forum. And while many would like to claim that it is only one vendor or anothers groupies... I think all of the vendors on here have a degree of groupies and it happens at all levels and all sides...

I do agree that the idea mentioned earlier in the thread about having the forum member fill out a complaint to lodge with the moderators before they are allowed to go public it would be great. I fully support and welcome that idea. Ideally if communication is good between the customer and vendor it will never get to that... If it does come to that hopefully the vendor and the customer both have enough records to show what happened... so definitely.. formalize the complaint airing process!

 

[jurgs01]

Turfburn,

I personally think you should promote your products more often. You are a nice guy, almost too nice it seems to be a vendor. You are one of the few people who I read every word of your posts because I know there is thought and substance in every word. Some vendors need to take lessons from the way you avoid flamewars. You have definately been involved in a ton of discussions or debates, but all of those that I have seen have been civilized. I can't say that for myself and neither can 90% of the members or the mods. I appreciate the advice and help you give to the community. I also wouldn't think twice about buying products from you. I know I would get a good product (because you know what you are doing) and receive great customer support. If I didn't already have the MPI I would be in line for the Microtech. PROMOTE YOUR PRODUCT AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE TROLL GROUPIES!

On the topic of vendor bashing. I have been guilty of battling with a vendor as have many other members here. I really like DSM's idea of having a moderator to regulate group buys. As a consumer I can say it's really frusterating when you are dealing with a vendor for the first time, you are weeks past the deadline for receiving the part, and you don't know whether you should post about the problem or just keep waiting in faith. A simple vendor contacting his customers and explaining the situation would solve everything, but sometimes these vendors are so busy (most aren't big companies with secretaries to make their calls) that they forget. If we had a moderator who could get the vendor's and customer's contact number's at the start of the GB, then keep up when the expected deadlines are due, there would be less problems overall. Even my favorite vendors have customers getting impatient when a quick e-mail or phone call to update people would really solve everything and give the customer a "warm and fuzzy."

 

[DSMConvert]

antoine if you end up taking my idea let me know if I can help in any way...Turfburn i think something as vendors we all need to do is to not support "groupies" who bash other vendors and to also familiarize ourselves with other vendor products. I try to lead by example by making sure that i do not make unwarranted claims about my own as well as others products and my customers well know that though I fully appreciate the support and word of mouth advertising, i don't condone bashing others products to make mine look good. Lets face it as vendors we have a fair amount of clout over regular members so the best thing we can do to help with the recent problems is to communicate between eachother if we have a disagreement and to remind our customers that there is a difference between supporting a product and bashing one.

 

[TurfBurn]

Yeah, good point... I communicate directly with my sponsored guys so they know what is going on and what not to say or do... it's some of the ones that I don't know about or people who are more loyal to you than you may know that I worry more about and I see more problems with. It's hard for a vendor to keep tabs on that stuff. I have to run weekly searches for NSN and Microtech and so forth to keep tabs on threads we come up in that I know nothing about.... and that's a pain! I don't ever condone negative approaches with products. I also try to not get into the "better than" mode or anything just simply state "Hey, my product does this... that ones does that... " and leave it to the customer to decide if that is "better" or not. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

There is enough misinformation and misconception with some products as well that it takes a lot to clear things up. I have a pretty good relationship with Beau and with Nick so it makes it easier to communicate between us on competing products so that we don't have friction. And any other vendor I encourage to talk to me and I'll talk to them too any time we overlap. I want to make sure that customers get what they want and need, and not what I want to sell them necessarily... One reason why i recommend the MPI to some people even though I sell engine management too... it's what they need... not a Microtech in some cases... It's a different approach than some take... but we aren't a "money making" company... mostly just doing what I can to stay alive as far as our bills and development... and enjoy doing it and hopefully time will make us profitable. So I have slightly different interests I guess which affects my views, approach and philosophy on here... this doesn't change what is in my pockets...

 

[MPNick]

I think the vendor should have section on some of the members on this forum. The ones that bust your balls all day and night about dumb stuff. Only in the end to find out that they scewed something up and now it is fixed. Or about how they need it right away so you make all kinds of changes or go out of your way for them only to have their credit card declined or to have them do a charge back because they feel that they no longer want to keep the product.

The problem is most of the members are young[ so they do not know how to deal with problems] and some have no respect for anything,[the way they were brought up by their parents]. They have a credit card and the Home Depot mentality. Buy it now, use it for a while and then send it back. Or the have a problem come on this forum and blast a vendor because they did not kiss their the way they liked and so they have the right to do so. The forum had allowed this to go on without and checks. I do not see the fair way for the forum to police this problem. If you let one guy b**** then you cannot say no to the next. But if it gone unchecked you have war. Glad I do not own this forum. You are between a rock and an ass member lot of times. Thats why I handle my problems with forum members as I do.

So a section where the vendor can post about a forum members to stay away from or tell about the type of customer they would be. This way you do not have vendor leaving the forum. You only have vendor that will not sell an forum member that will only be a problem.

 

[Antoine]

I think the vendor should have section on some of the members on this forum. The ones that bust your balls all day and night about dumb stuff. Only in the end to find out that they scewed something up and now it is fixed. Or about how they need it right away so you make all kinds of changes or go out of your way for them only to have their credit card declined or to have them do a charge back because they feel that they no longer want to keep the product.

The problem is most of the members are young[ so they do not know how to deal with problems] and some have no respect for anything,[the way they were brought up by their parents]. They have a credit card and the Home Depot mentality. Buy it now, use it for a while and then send it back. Or the have a problem come on this forum and blast a vendor because they did not kiss their the way they liked and so they have the right to do so. The forum had allowed this to go on without and checks. I do not see the fair way for the forum to police this problem. If you let one guy b**** then you cannot say no to the next. But if it gone unchecked you have war. Glad I do not own this forum. You are between a rock and an ass member lot of times. Thats why I handle my problems with forum members as I do.

So a section where the vendor can post about a forum members to stay away from or tell about the type of customer they would be. This way you do not have vendor leaving the forum. You only have vendor that will not sell an forum member that will only be a problem.

How about a hidden AV/AMM Forum...only visible to active AVs and AMMs. You can post about problem members, keep communication lines open amongst other vendors as well as with me and the staff...?

 

[Captain KRM P5]

How about a hidden AV/AMM Forum...only visible to active AVs and AMMs. You can post about problem members, keep communication lines open amongst other vendors as well as with me and the staff...?

I support this idea 110%

 

[Antoine]

I support this idea 110%

Sweet...I'd like to hear from our other AVs/AMMs as well...If you guys support this idea I will definitely make it happen!

 

[TurfBurn]

Ditto.. but there should be an agreement/statement that nothing leaves that forum.

 

[jurgs01]

Ditto.. but there should be an agreement/statement that nothing leaves that forum.

What happens in the forum stays in the forum(butthump)

Sorry, I had to.

 

[MPNick]

How about a hidden AV/AMM Forum...only visible to active AVs and AMMs. You can post about problem members, keep communication lines open amongst other vendors as well as with me and the staff...?

I am 100% for this.

 

[Kooldino]

I support this idea 110%

Well I support this idea 120%.

 

[MPNick]

Well I support this idea 120%.

I make it 125%