V6 for p5?!?!?!?

[Shane5425]

hehe, i have seen one, its a guy who owns a gas station/resturant, its a rx7 tt.. fast mother right there..

 

[anarchistchiken]

A P5 can be really really fast, you just need forced induction and a built block. P5 is a really nice platform in reality - looks, brakes, suspension -

The protege is an economy car. No matter what model, year, or other iteration, at the end of the day it was designed to be an economy car. Yes, they can handle well, yes they look damn good, and yeah thay have decent brakes, but they are by no means a good platform for a fast daily driver.

In the years that people have been tuning proteges, they've never stopped pouring money into their cars and honestly no one has ever achieved really great results. We look up to Juan for hitting 11's in his P5, and we closely follow people like Focus and TurfBurn to see what their next dyno run will yield, but for the amount of money that you would have to put into a Protege to make it a 500 whp car capable of a 10 second quarter mile and still have the ability to hang with other cars in the turns, AND still be a dependable daily driver, it's just nuts. I mean I love the protege, and I'll keep it for a while and keep tuning it and boosting my power etc, but I accepted the fact a long time ago that I will never have a FAST car with the protege. It will be very quick, and it will be fun to drive, but as those power levels, it will never have the refinement and drivability that a car like an Evo has from the factory.

Just sayin, it's a good platform to have fun on, but you're deluding yourself when you say it's a good base to build off of if you want a fast daily driver.

 

[Shane5425]

The protege is an economy car. No matter what model, year, or other iteration, at the end of the day it was designed to be an economy car. Yes, they can handle well, yes they look damn good, and yeah thay have decent brakes, but they are by no means a good platform for a fast daily driver.

In the years that people have been tuning proteges, they've never stopped pouring money into their cars and honestly no one has ever achieved really great results. We look up to Juan for hitting 11's in his P5, and we closely follow people like Focus and TurfBurn to see what their next dyno run will yield, but for the amount of money that you would have to put into a Protege to make it a 500 whp car capable of a 10 second quarter mile and still have the ability to hang with other cars in the turns, AND still be a dependable daily driver, it's just nuts. I mean I love the protege, and I'll keep it for a while and keep tuning it and boosting my power etc, but I accepted the fact a long time ago that I will never have a FAST car with the protege. It will be very quick, and it will be fun to drive, but as those power levels, it will never have the refinement and drivability that a car like an Evo has from the factory.

Just sayin, it's a good platform to have fun on, but you're deluding yourself when you say it's a good base to build off of if you want a fast daily driver.

(mswerd)
i know when i turbo my car, its not gonna be the fastest thing in the world, but it will be decently quick and good enough for me.

 

[65racecoupe]

I dont really concur. I wasnt talkin 10s, more like 12s or upper 11s in reality.

For power, 300 is my limit, so I will never run 11s or 10s. 400 to 500 is comfortable to different people, so I someday 10s or 11s in a P5 or MP3.

Most V8 owners will never run 12s, so fast is relative to an owner. A REAL 12 sec street car is FAST. I wouldnt race for slips in my P5, but it would take a fast car to beat it (after turbo of course).

Civic - an economy car - can be modded to run 10s by many tuners. Yes, better motors, but still an economy car

You need not dump all your money in a car if you arent able to.

 

[anarchistchiken]

Most V8 owners will never run 12s, so fast is relative to an owner.

I suppose this is true, but if a guy with a trans am put the amount of money into his car that TurfBurn or Focus or any number of other people on this board has, he would run 10's, or faster. I wasn't even talking about v-8's, so I don't know where that popped up from.

A REAL 12 sec street car is FAST. I wouldnt race for slips in my P5, but it would take a fast car to beat it (after turbo of course).

Damn right it would be fast. However, a 12 second protege in street trim is probably not going to last a long time, even with a built motor. Just to put it in perspective, I'm willing to bet that a 12 second streetable IS300 will withstand many, many, many more thousands of miles of street use that a similairly fast protege.

And the other issue that kind of limits a protege from being called "fast" is the fact that if you push the car really hard, you can ride a little bit above 140mph, riding redline the whole time, and sometimes blowing up while doing that. A car capable of a long distance race with a sustained, stable, and safe top speed of at or below 140 mph just isn't "fast" to me.

Civic - an economy car - can be modded to run 10s by many tuners. Yes, better motors, but still an economy car

Um, yeah I suppose this is true, but it totally has nothing to do with my point. I said the protege is an economy car because that's the way I think of it. But the fact that a car is an economy car does not really have anything to do with the effectiveness of said car as a platform for performance. For example, older Nissan 200sx clones (Infiniti G20t) came with an SR20DET from the factory, one of the most respected and stout engine ever introuduced to the tuner community. This engine is a direct swap (sans new wiring harness) into a 200sx, making them some fast little bastards. The same could be said for a civic. While they are mild natured from the factory, a simple engine swap to an H22 and a small turbo kit later, you can kill just about any other car on the street or highway.

Those are two "econoboxes" that I would consider good platforms for fast cars. That doesn't change the fact that the Protege is NOT.

 

[MikeBlueP5]

When my MSP popped on the dyno I pulled the engine from my 1990 Taurus SHO which is a 3.0L duratec (basically)....it is DIMENSIONALLY the same size as the 2.5L duratec.
It will NOT fit with extensive modification to the frame rails. The engine block IS longer believe it or not. In order to keep the belt system off the frame rail you'd have to cut the right axle and shorten it about 4-5" which would make torquesteer and wheelspin UNcontrolable.
The protege bay is big enough but not without butchering the tranny/axle/mounts/suspension.
I'm the only person I know who's gone this far with it in a 3rd gen.
After getting into totalling up the cost I sold the car and forgot all about it.
Putting an SHO engine/tranny RWD (midengine) would be MUCH easier....and actually quite possible.

-SuperMattyP

I always thought the older SHO's had a 3.2 Yamaha engine, not a 3 liter duratec. The SHO 3.2 is bigger and different than the 3 liter, but you are correct the 2.5 and 3.0 are somewhat similar, the heads ( with slight work) will swap from the 3 liter to 2.5, ah i just ate my words, because the only 3.0 with DOHC would be in the SHO, and the other 3.0s are in the block cam iron. thats what i have in my ranger. But anyways the duratec i believe are iron block v6's because they started using them in the rangers in 95 or 96. I cant think of the name they gave the yamaha SHO engines.

 

[TR3CK]

KL V6 in a Protege? It can be done as you see:

 

[Scotty878]

KL V6 in a Protege? It can be done as you see:

sweet!

 

[Magicjdf]

Because the KL-ZE 2.5L was put in Probes/MX6's that shared the 2.0L engine with us.

Indeed. The 2.0 Probe shares almost the same engine as the Proteges and, thus, has the same engine mount locations on the block, tranny, and frame. The Probe V6 engines (the KLDE or KL03) mount to the same place on the frame as the 2.0s but have a few slightly different brackets that bolt to the block/tranny. If you're swapping in a KL engine in, might as well make it the KLZE, which is almost a DIRECT swap for the KLDE/03. It's a lil under 200 hp with about 160ish tq I think. You won't be making the full 200 hp unless you also have the imported ECU, which changes the RPMs that that activate the VRIS 1 and 2.

All I could see that would need to be swapped over are the engine, tranny, mounting brackets, maybe the halfshafts, and the computer and harness.

The engine itself you can get around 1000 shipped. For the harness, tranny, ECU and such, find someone parting out a 94 or 95 (trust me, the OBDI will be less of a hassle since all KLZEs are OBDI) Probe GT and buy all that s***. I dunno about the rules of this forum but www.probetalk.com is the place to get all that.

Seriously, a Protege with a ZE would be fast as hell. I think it would be well woth it if you wanna stay in the N/A realm and have something reliable.

 

[Magicjdf]

It's a doable swap but yes the ECU will have to be changed. Best bet would be to go stand alone engine management and interface it to the ECU. There are a few people who have cracked the ECU coding for the KL series ECU so it is possible to get the coding and modify it. As for mounting you would need all the V6 motor mounts adn would possibly have to fab up some perches for one or two of them. Weight wise both engines are very close so you'll only be a little heavier in the front, but the engine compartment will be really tight. If you think getting acces to the enigne bay sucks on your Protege right now wait until you have to deal with a variable intake V6 in there, it's not fun. As for engine you are better of doing a built KL-03 rather than a KL-ZE as that 200 hp spec is only with the Japanese ECU and running 102 octance gas. Just not something you can get hold of every day. Thankfully there are both turbo and supercharger options for the KL series engine so added power is easy to make. The bottom half of the KL is built like a Chevy 350, 4 bolt mains and cross braced, the top end can really net some nice gains from port and polish work, knife edging everything and doing a 3-5 angle valve job. The internals on the other hand can handle nothing past 9 PSI max, so you would need to replace the rods and pistons if you were to go force induction with anything over that.
There is a lot of informantion out there for building up the KL series motors but there are not a lot of parts for it, all in all you are goingt o spenda fair amount of money getting power out of it. I would only do the swap if I had a pare motor or could get one for almost nothing as the 30 horsepower you would get with just a straight swap wouldn't be worth the money of having to buy the enigne. If you decided to build it up the only advantage it would have over the 2.0 4 is that it is a non-interference engine so if you slip the timing belt you don't destroy the internals like the 4 bagner would.
One last note if anyone does do this the best year engine to get is the 94-95 ones as the 93 was a first production year and they have some issues and the 96-up has OBD-II with the twin cats and all the extra enigne management associated with OBD-II.

Hah, wow I posted before I saw all this. I'll go back to my trolling now.

 

[Prodigy]

eBay! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAZD...33615QQitemZ7990895241QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

[Nightmare]

KL V6 in a Protege? It can be done as you see:

Who's car is this?? i would love to see/hear more info!

 

[Mike R]

I always thought the older SHO's had a 3.2 Yamaha engine, not a 3 liter duratec. The SHO 3.2 is bigger and different than the 3 liter, but you are correct the 2.5 and 3.0 are somewhat similar, the heads ( with slight work) will swap from the 3 liter to 2.5, ah i just ate my words, because the only 3.0 with DOHC would be in the SHO, and the other 3.0s are in the block cam iron. thats what i have in my ranger. But anyways the duratec i believe are iron block v6's because they started using them in the rangers in 95 or 96. I cant think of the name they gave the yamaha SHO engines.

Auto SHO=3.2L manual 3.0L


I could be wrong, but I think the OHV 3.0 (vulcan) is the same bottom end used in the SHO, but Yamaha did the heads/DOHC/Intake...

 

[AznXstazy]

those motors are kind of cheap. some places have them for like 500 or so, just have to look around. but for real those v6 fit in a protege? wtf lol

 

[boo-boo]

hmmm if i ever blow my motor....(something that wont happen for a long time though) this could be somethin worth looking at........

 

[AZDriftR]

how much heavier is the k series over the FS? would this not horrible destroy whatever weight dist. that we have and make the car way front heavy?

 

[Magicjdf]

how much heavier is the k series over the FS? would this not horrible destroy whatever weight dist. that we have and make the car way front heavy?

There's really not that much of a difference. It's an iron block with aluminum heads just like the FS. I'm using Sprint springs in my Probe like a friend of mine with the ZE. On the same size tires, he's only like a fourth to maybe half an inch lower than me in the front. I don't remember the spring rates, but that would be what? maybe 75 lbs. or so? It's probably no different than the weight a full intercooled turbo kit would add.

If you want NA with a very nice sounding V6 that loves to rev, this would be the way to go.

 

[Shane5425]

thats cool that the tranny will bolt right up.. the only thing i could see giving you a problem is stuff like power steering and ac, u would have to get custom lines made..

btw who is that black protege for??

 

[Shane5425]

KL V6 in a Protege? It can be done as you see:

Whos car is that and is it finished??

 

[InFlames]

Whos car is that and is it finished??

I second that.