Turbo kit for MP5

[Captain KRM P5]

I can't remeber if it was here paul or in another area but he mentioned it is not even being worked on any longer.

huh? FM said this? Last I was told by FM, the fuel management for the Protege was on thier "to do" list, just not in the immediate future. I myself am thinking about Spoolin's unit should I ever decide to run past 8 psi.

 

[LinuxRacr]

Last I heard from Ken@FP is that they have been really busy with their Miata stuff, and will be doing stuff for us Protege folks.

 

[TurboDog's Dad]

We've been very busy with Miata projects, yes. Have explored several ecu solutions for the Protege, including the Microtech. The thing that scared me away from that one was the total lack of closed loop mixture control, which bodes ill for street use. OK for drag use, if you're into that. We tend to build and sell stuff for the street driver, though. Have also researched reprogramming the stock ecu and have gotten nowhere with that. Link is working on a new line of plug-ins, eta unknown. When they come out, we will probably go that way. I think there will be lots of parts breaking out to go sightseeing as people keep cranking the boost up, these engines aren't too robust.

 

[1sty]

I think there will be lots of parts breaking out to go sightseeing as people keep cranking the boost up, these engines aren't too robust.

With allowing for proper reliability, atleast not to miuch lower then stock, what boost level is safe?

General Belief around here seems to be 7-8PSI with a FMU, 10-12 with the MSP and 14 with Stand alone or piggyback system.

 

[TurboDog's Dad]

Having heard of MazdaSpeed ones blowing up on the dyno at stock boost and with our experience with late model Miata rods, I'd have to say those recommendations could be somewhat incendiary. Not wishing blowups on anybody, but it'll be happening.

 

[1sty]

The problem turbo is there is a serious LACK of knowledgable people like yourslef putting out warnings.

IN your opinioin wheere shoudl the boost on a protege MSp be and where shoudl it be on a P5 with a turbo kit of yours, or anyones?

We need as much specific and resposible advice as we can get here.

 

[Keith@FP]

Well, if you look at our site we describe our kit as a "6 psi" kit. That should be a hint We do tend on the side of conservatism.

With different engine management, it could be higher. The ultimate limit is not going to be a simple number, it's going to depend on a lot of factors. Intercooler design, engine management, quality of tuning (this is not related to engine management, but many people falsely consider the equipment to be the most important part), turbo sizing, intake temperatures, fuel quality, spark plug choice and individual engine tolerances come to mind.

Keith

 

[1sty]

Thats just for a P5 runing your kit.
What about a MP3 with that kit, or a MSP for that matter.
everyone and there brother is posthing that they are upping the boost on any and everything but no one is speaking against this that has serious tuning knowlendge like you guys do.

Hints don't work.

Also Is the MSP safe to 10PSI being a smaller turbo and ECu deigned for boost?

Sorry, I'll stop now, I have to many question.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

everyone and there brother is posthing that they are upping the boost on any and everything but no one is speaking against this

I will speak against it then. I ran 9 PSI off and on for about a month with no problems. One fine day at the dragway that EBC knob was cranked a hair or two higher, I'd say 10 to 11 psi, and that was the end of that engine. Now truth be told, I didn't have the additional fuel pump then, or the ECU mod nor had I made any adjustments to the RR AFPR either. Would I run 9 PSI now with all of those factors now known? No way. 14 PSI, even with a standalone - I can't see the stock internals handling that at all considering I had two bent rods from 9 PSI.

The original BEGI prototypes ran at 8 PSI. I recall WShade ran 8 PSI for some time without problems, but the specs were lowered from 8 to 6 PSI some time around then. Corky has said that on 93 octane with all the goodies installed, the car can safely run 8 PSI. I must admit, I'm scared to do it as another $1500 on another engine does not come easily.

I'm patient enough to wait for whatever solution FM/Link can work out. I read that Spoolin's unit eliminates the stock tachometer among other things - thats not my bag, baby. And the Haltech with its zero-USA tech or product support doesn't entice me either.

Good to see FM posting and sharing knowledge!!! I've been getting worried that too many people on this board are throwing caution into the wind when it comes to turning up the boost. It pays to have rational, knowledgable and cautious people to talk to.

 

[Keith@FP]

Well, we've always been available by phone and email. When we're busy, we don't get the chance to read the forums.

MP3s are not as boost-friendly as the P5 due to the more advanced timing in the ECU. Without any timing controls, I'd recommend running less boost than the P5. I would have thought that the popped engines would speak for themselves on the wisdom of running higher boost.

The MSP would be limited more by the strength of the bottom end, but that hasn't proven to be exceptional either. At 10 psi, that tiny turbo would be far outside the efficiency curve that you'd have a very hot intake charge. Before turning up the boost on that car, I'd first do something about a decent intercooler and piping as well as some good instrumentation to ensure everything was running well. I'd probably also install a T28 turbo in place of the baby T25 to move some real air.

Captain, the bent rods are not simply because of the boost level. They're because of an improperly supported boost level. An ECU that's making the engine run at stoich combines to promote detonation, and that's the real rod killer.

Keith

 

[1sty]

Will the addition of the J&S safeguard allow the MP3 to run 8 PSI without worry?

 

[Keith@FP]

A reactive setup that retards timing in response to knock is a good safety net, but the car really should be set up to avoid knock in the first place. Some sort of boost-related retard box would be preferable to do that. I understand the newer J&S boxes can retard based on engine RPM - I'd prefer boost as you're most likely to get knock at the torque peak.

Keith

 

[1sty]

Actualy a few guys have mentioned the J&S can retard timing based on boost pressure, up to 2 degrees per PSI if i remeber correctly. I will try to find the post.

 

[Keith@FP]

If that's the case, then it's a good addition.

Keith

 

[1sty]

Little Beavis posted this:

Some specs for those who care:

Knock retard can be set to max out at 10 or 20 degrees. If the unit detects knock it will pull timing. At the 10 degree setting it will pull timing in 1 degree increments. At the 20 degree setting, it will pull in 2 degree increments.

You can choose to retard all cylinders equally, or individually. Thus if you have knock on cylinder #4 and only on #4, you can retard the timing on that cylinder, while leaving the other 3 at full power (timing). Very cool.

You can set retard based upon boost. You get a dial that allows you to set a value ANYWHERE between 0 and 10 psi. This is when the unit will begin to pull timing. How much timing you ask?

Well, with another dial, you can set how much timing it pulls per psi of boost. In this case, a similar dial allows you to select between 0 and 2 degrees of retard. So, if you want 1/2 degree per psi, turn it a quarter of the way. Want more, turn it more. What 7/10th degree per psi, turn it 35%. You get the idea.

Then a "new" function. So you can turn down timing at boost, so you can retard timing when it senses knock. What about preventing knock at your torque peak? Well, it has a mid-range rpm based retard. You have a programmed (sorry, you can't change it, but you can have it programmed wherever you like) mid-range retard. This is designed to pull timing when the engine is under load (and making boost) and at a predetermined rpm range. In my case, I have it set to ramp up evenly from 3000 to 4000 rpm where it max's out until 4500 when it ramps back down to 5500. This means that I have full timing advance below 3000 and above 5500 when I'm boosting (except for the boost retard and knock retard) and I have full timing any time I'm not making boost. In fact, it also ramps up and down with the amount of boost I'm making, so running "loaded" at 1 psi, does not affect the timing. THUS MORE POWER!

Anyway, I'm sure those of you that took the time to read this novella, can see that I'm excited about this. I know that there are other things out there, and a nice piggy back or standalone could do something similar, but you have to feel good about having three ways to control your timing on a car that we have up until recently had NO control of timing whatsoever!

Anyway, that's my story, time for bed. . .

 

[LinuxRacr]

Yeah, the J&S is the only reason I can accually run 8 PSI. I still have to ease into boost and watch the fuel pressure gauge to make sure enough fuel is added for the amount of boost I am at.