Syncro-mesh problem on a P5
- Thread starter MP5driva03
- Start date
Did you ever think that the grinding noises you hear once in a while is caused by your inexperience?
When you trying to make a quick gear change while accelerating you might not engage the clutch completely or release it too early.
Your hand could be quicker than your foot in those maneuvers and while you think that you are fast and precise during quick shifting aparently your tranny and your clutch don't think so... and hence the grinding noise.
P.S. Notice that you complain during 1 to 2 and 2 to 3... where most accelerated shifting occurs.
When you trying to make a quick gear change while accelerating you might not engage the clutch completely or release it too early.
Your hand could be quicker than your foot in those maneuvers and while you think that you are fast and precise during quick shifting aparently your tranny and your clutch don't think so... and hence the grinding noise.
P.S. Notice that you complain during 1 to 2 and 2 to 3... where most accelerated shifting occurs.
been driving stick shift for 12 years and I really feel that it's an issue with the tranny not the driver. Do a search and you will find hundreds of threads explaining the same problem areas.
I think flat_black and 20ESGUY explained it a little better....
I think flat_black and 20ESGUY explained it a little better....
flat_black
Member
Yeah, I learned on a stick with my first car, an old 1980 RWD Celica, and never had an issue... Have had over eight cars since, all manual, and no issues whatsoever. The Celica needed a clutch after the first 30000 miles of me learning on it, but that's the only item that was transmission related that I've ever needed to replace.
The synchros from 1 to 2 and from 2 to 3 grind, regardless of if I shift under hard acceleration or not, and generally only bring first gear up to about 4500 before shifting if I AM accelerating hard, then 2 I'll do at 5500, and three at 5500. But generally I only bring each gear to around 3500 before shifting. And as I said to the dealer, I babied the car for the first 2500 miles to make sure the clutch didn't wear down, and it still ground once or twice durring that. Uugh. And they're giving me a hellish runaround to try and get it fixed, now. Damnit.
As a side note, too, generally it grinds more frequently under moderate acceleration or undershifting the car, and shifts smoother from 4500 to 5500 RPM. I shift using my fingertips, as that's how I used to drive my Celica and the MR-2, as if you let off the gas, clutch, shifted, or broke too fast in the MR-2, it would death-frisbee on you.
The Celica was just a lot happier shifting slow and smooth, and bringing it around corners lesurely, but fast... I personally beleive it's all finesse that lets a car move fast, not being the first one to mash the gearshift into the next gate. =P Then again, I also dislike drag racing.
The synchros from 1 to 2 and from 2 to 3 grind, regardless of if I shift under hard acceleration or not, and generally only bring first gear up to about 4500 before shifting if I AM accelerating hard, then 2 I'll do at 5500, and three at 5500. But generally I only bring each gear to around 3500 before shifting. And as I said to the dealer, I babied the car for the first 2500 miles to make sure the clutch didn't wear down, and it still ground once or twice durring that. Uugh. And they're giving me a hellish runaround to try and get it fixed, now. Damnit.
As a side note, too, generally it grinds more frequently under moderate acceleration or undershifting the car, and shifts smoother from 4500 to 5500 RPM. I shift using my fingertips, as that's how I used to drive my Celica and the MR-2, as if you let off the gas, clutch, shifted, or broke too fast in the MR-2, it would death-frisbee on you.
The Celica was just a lot happier shifting slow and smooth, and bringing it around corners lesurely, but fast... I personally beleive it's all finesse that lets a car move fast, not being the first one to mash the gearshift into the next gate. =P Then again, I also dislike drag racing.
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Check this out... I had that lil problem with the gears getting grinded into place when I had my SHORT SHIFTER installed... but yesterday I took off my shifter and bushings, and I can't really feel it at all?! I guess it's the short shifter that's making it do that? I'm gonna check again, cause that would suck if it only did it with a short shifter. Any opinions on this?
I've been driving stick for at least 10 years. I only grinded when I was learning. But on the pro manual tranny it takes good concentration when accelerating hard not to grind it. Maybe it's time for a dealer visit.
It did this when it was stock.
It got noticibly worse when I put in a TWM short shifter and kartboy bushing.
Now I have gone back to stock. Except I removed the extension on the shifter and it still does it.
It did this when it was stock.
It got noticibly worse when I put in a TWM short shifter and kartboy bushing.
Now I have gone back to stock. Except I removed the extension on the shifter and it still does it.
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to be quite frank the short shifter is not the problem nor is the bushings. the bushings will make the issue more pronounced because it gets rid of the slop in the stabilizing arm of the shifting linkage. the shifter itself puts no extra strain on the gears or synchros. the only way it could is if it changed the actual linkage geometry which it really doesn't. what it does change is the fulcrum point of the lever which in turn moves the actual gear change linkage since the shifter is not directly connected to the shift forks as in top-loader rwd trannies. you get a shorter shift by just shorting the height and slightly lowering the fulcrum point, which is why it requires more effort to shift. in all actuality the taller stock shifter would do more damage when shifting since it's easier to force the transmission into gear with a taller lever. as far as my inexperience goes....i've been driving stick in one form or another since i was 2 years old pimping massey ferguson tractors around...i've driven non-synchronized cars and know what grinding is...this was not that, which was evidenced by the tech confirming my suspicions when he disassembled the trans.
I have a similar problem with the 5th to 4th downshift, sometimes it feels as if there's something blocking th shifter and I have to use a considerable amount of force to get it into 4th gear, the 3rd to 4th upshift is usually pretty smooth but downshifting from 5th is annoying as hell.
I have the kartboy ss/bushings combo, removed the bushings because I thought they might be the source of the problem and I'm taking the ss out before I take to the dealer to have them check it out, I don't want them to blame it on the ss and refuse to fix it (if there's something wrong) under warranty.
I have the kartboy ss/bushings combo, removed the bushings because I thought they might be the source of the problem and I'm taking the ss out before I take to the dealer to have them check it out, I don't want them to blame it on the ss and refuse to fix it (if there's something wrong) under warranty.
would you guys mind sharing what year your car is, when it started having these problems, your driving style, and what changes you've made since stock? I'm curious to see who's having the problems and perhaps why.
Here's mine:
Year: Canadian 2003.5 (manufactured 04/03)
Problems: None yet, 1800kms
Driving Style: Avg Shift RMP 3000. Avg Max RMP: I try to keep below 5500
Changes: None.
Here's mine:
Year: Canadian 2003.5 (manufactured 04/03)
Problems: None yet, 1800kms
Driving Style: Avg Shift RMP 3000. Avg Max RMP: I try to keep below 5500
Changes: None.
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flat_black
Member
My synchro noise started getting a LOT worse on the drive home today... And above 4k, I thought I heard metal rattling around in the tranny. Great. Just great. I'm going to the Mazda dealership tommorow, and getting them to look at it. With that, hopefully I'll have some resoloution. Damnit. Anyway, something clicked inside my head today, when I was thinking of possible causes for the G15 tearing itself to bits on this car... But I've never heard of the G15 on the MazdaSpeeds developing these problems? Odd. After some deliberation, I think I may have come up with a viable soloution.
These cars come with solid shifter forks, and a mount that runs to the chassis for the shifter. Now, imagine for a moment a solid link traveling from the middle of the car, firmly anchored in place, going foreward to a shifter mechanism atop the transmission. One person even claimed a broken shift fork, quite a feat on such a beefy peice of metal.
Now, on to the engine, or should I say, the motor mounts... These are the biggest hunks of cheddar cheese that's barely hardened up enough to hold the engine more or less from dropping onto the metal frame. But not much more. If you drive the car at ALL, you can feel how sloppy these things are, with everything bouncing all over the place.
Under acceleration, if you're only commuting, or somesuch, you're slowing, and the transmission is all bouncy, slopping around with those crappy motor mounts... Yet the shifter is held ridgedly in place by the forementioned solid shift fork and support assembly... Ah-hah!
If that shift fork is bouncing all over the place, that means the gears are in motion, and rubbing, even when only under light acceleration, braking, and whatnot.
Once I get this issue rectified, I'll be installing a urethane motor mount, perhaps two, one on the front and one on the back, to see if I can rectify the problem. We'll see, I suppose!
Any thoughts on the validity of my logic? It's about all I could think of that was a viable difference between the Pro5 and the Mazdaspeed.
These cars come with solid shifter forks, and a mount that runs to the chassis for the shifter. Now, imagine for a moment a solid link traveling from the middle of the car, firmly anchored in place, going foreward to a shifter mechanism atop the transmission. One person even claimed a broken shift fork, quite a feat on such a beefy peice of metal.
Now, on to the engine, or should I say, the motor mounts... These are the biggest hunks of cheddar cheese that's barely hardened up enough to hold the engine more or less from dropping onto the metal frame. But not much more. If you drive the car at ALL, you can feel how sloppy these things are, with everything bouncing all over the place.
Under acceleration, if you're only commuting, or somesuch, you're slowing, and the transmission is all bouncy, slopping around with those crappy motor mounts... Yet the shifter is held ridgedly in place by the forementioned solid shift fork and support assembly... Ah-hah!
If that shift fork is bouncing all over the place, that means the gears are in motion, and rubbing, even when only under light acceleration, braking, and whatnot.
Once I get this issue rectified, I'll be installing a urethane motor mount, perhaps two, one on the front and one on the back, to see if I can rectify the problem. We'll see, I suppose!
Any thoughts on the validity of my logic? It's about all I could think of that was a viable difference between the Pro5 and the Mazdaspeed.
flat_black
Member
Oh! I totally missed that other post, too... Here's my info:
Year: American 2002 (manufactured 06/01)
Problems: Clutch judder (Fixed), Cold Engine Noise (Soon Fixed), 2nd to 3rd Synchro Grind (Just got worse)
Driving Style: Avg Shift RPM: 3500, Avg Max RPM: 5500
Changes: Platnum +4 Spark Plugs, Sparkco Plug Wires, Aero Intake, Kartboy Shortshifter and urethane bushings, ceramic coated heat shield and intake tube. Unrelated: grounding kit, painted calipers, Yokohama AVS ES100 tires, and running synthetic tranny oil, changed every 5k miles to keep that stupid grind away, as well as 10W30 changed every 2.5k.
Year: American 2002 (manufactured 06/01)
Problems: Clutch judder (Fixed), Cold Engine Noise (Soon Fixed), 2nd to 3rd Synchro Grind (Just got worse)
Driving Style: Avg Shift RPM: 3500, Avg Max RPM: 5500
Changes: Platnum +4 Spark Plugs, Sparkco Plug Wires, Aero Intake, Kartboy Shortshifter and urethane bushings, ceramic coated heat shield and intake tube. Unrelated: grounding kit, painted calipers, Yokohama AVS ES100 tires, and running synthetic tranny oil, changed every 5k miles to keep that stupid grind away, as well as 10W30 changed every 2.5k.
Hmmm... let me see... well, tell me if whatever I say may help your possible solution. I had the same problem as you. BUT, I did a test and took off my short shifter and bushings that I had on, and behold, the noise is gone. Before, the harder I accelerate, the more it seemed to sound like metal in the tranny. Now, I can accelerate really hard and won't hear the sound at all!
So for ME, I think I figured out that the bushings are making the rattling noise. Someone did a test and put a rubber piece from the tranny to the first bushing, but said that it didn't work, cause there was too much play, just like stock.
Any suggestions for this now?
So for ME, I think I figured out that the bushings are making the rattling noise. Someone did a test and put a rubber piece from the tranny to the first bushing, but said that it didn't work, cause there was too much play, just like stock.
Any suggestions for this now?
flat_black
Member
This actually has been happening, at least in mine, since before I had the short shifter on it.
I just got back from riding with a service mechanic with my 2002.5 MP5. I watched as he jammed into each gear and says: "Feels and sounds great to me." :bs: I'm on the passenger side hearing the gears pop and tell him you're not suppose to jam into each gear. He replies, "I'm not". We I am also having the clutch chatter looked at to so they are going to keep it till the morning and try it out again. He also said he'll have the manager drive it too. I have a feeling they are going to say again they feel nothing. What should I do if this happens? Take it to another dealer or what?
BTW, I got a F'in Neon for a rental. What a piece of s***! So I'm stopped at a light. Waniting to turn left. Light turns green, I go. I had local KUPD playin the new Jane's Addiction (Whole album ROCKS btw) Second I hit the gas pedal the radio goes into a scan and starts hitting ever radio channel. :wtf: Next light I stop and go....Same damn thing. F'in Neon! :mad:
BTW, I got a F'in Neon for a rental. What a piece of s***! So I'm stopped at a light. Waniting to turn left. Light turns green, I go. I had local KUPD playin the new Jane's Addiction (Whole album ROCKS btw) Second I hit the gas pedal the radio goes into a scan and starts hitting ever radio channel. :wtf: Next light I stop and go....Same damn thing. F'in Neon! :mad:
