Suing the gun makers......again!

[shinzen]

but my point is this- who gets robbed? The middle class primarily- In history, it is the lower class revolting against oppression- there was not nearly the existence of the middle class that there is today in america- this is unique to america in that we have more middle class than any other time in history.

 

[Mad Ryan]

I would like you to point out where you got that from. I didn't see it in the 2002 reports, but you should post a link if you have seen it. What I DID see is that in 2002 71.1% of homicides (where weapon type was reported) involved a firearm. Of those 71.1% over 76% involved handguns, 5% rifles, and 5% shotguns. I seriously doubt there are that many .22 caliber handguns doing all of that crime, especially with the low damage of impact from a small non-hollow point bullet travelling at such a high rate of speed.

Last year only 225 people were cleared with justifiable homicide out of 14,054 homicides (edit: actually I think you have to add the 225 to the 14,054 so 14,279). You are also about 3 times more likely to die in an argument or other non-felony altercation than you are during a felony act. Of those felony acts you are far more likely to die during a robbery than a burglary (a whopping 96 incidents last year). But hey, if everyone were carrying a gun, at least we could settle those arguments faster when we were on our way to rob someone. I just pulled every single number out of there. Go have a look:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

I was going off of the '99 numbers for the most part which were the most current when I was writing on the subject. Really though, the .22 is the most common of all bullets in emergency rooms. It's an incredibly lethal round, especially from a pistol because of the way th powder burns. In a .22 rimfire the powder is completely burned before the bullet has gone more than 3 or 4 inches down the barrel. What this means is that after that about 3 or 4 inches of barrel the bullet is actually losing velocity. A .22 will penetrate further into the human body (soft tissue) than a .45 Auto ball round. They all hurt.

 

[kc5zom]

I will agree with ryan on one point, we need accountability in this country. Period. Take some personal responsibility for yourselves and realize that you are the reason your kids are failing- take an interest in their lives and help them suceed.
The reason, pingdum that we are the place that has more people immigrating to our country, and we are the most hated in the world, is that we are the most successful. We have our bill of rights, we have the constitution and I believe wholeheartedly in those.
We have a large disparity between the lower and middle class in this country, which is one of the reasons that we have such a disparity in crime rates. Our country has more middle class than anywhere else(just an opinion, no figures this time). In most other countries you have either rich or poor, and the rich are more separated from the poor. Here, we have middle class and poor working side by side which creates jealousy between the lower two classes- the poor want to be middle class- because that's what they see every day. The middle class has health care, 401k's, a house- and it's something you have to live with seeing on a daily basis. In other countries, the difference in monies is different(once again, an opinion) You have more extremes between poor and rich, and the rich are not seen as often as the middle class are here- jealousy is everthing- it creates feelings of entitlement and inferiority which leads to violence- something to think about.

The United States has a fairly high Gini coefficient (>40) which means we have a pretty big disparity between rich and poor in this country. There are countries that are worse off, but we aren't a poster child for equality either.

 

[kc5zom]

I was going off of the '99 numbers for the most part which were the most current when I was writing on the subject. Really though, the .22 is the most common of all bullets in emergency rooms. It's an incredibly lethal round, especially from a pistol because of the way th powder burns. In a .22 rimfire the powder is completely burned before the bullet has gone more than 3 or 4 inches down the barrel. What this means is that after that about 3 or 4 inches of barrel the bullet is actually losing velocity. A .22 will penetrate further into the human body (soft tissue) than a .45 Auto ball round. They all hurt.

A .22 will penetrate further because they (and .223 rounds for that matter, ie. NATO caliber and there is a reason they use them) have an extremely high muzzle velocity. It does very little tissue damage going in or out because it is so small. A bullet fired from a handgun (>.22), or higher caliber rifle for that matter, does not have as much velocity but does more damage since they tend to stay inside the body and move around quite a bit, rather than going for a clean exit. That doesn't even count hollowpoints, which basically destroy everything nearby. One of the reasons NATO uses a solid bullet instead of a hollowpoint, it does not cause as much injury to the person you shoot and it wounds them enough that they are out of action (and a wounded man is paydirt since it takes around 2 extra men to take care of him).

The people who are getting shot with .22 caliber rounds are not the people involved in a violent crime, it is the idiot who shot his brother while they were goofing off in a field or shot his own idiot self in the foot. Last figures I saw said .38 was the most popular for violence. I would imagine it has probably changed to 9mm due to their prevalence.

 

[Mad Ryan]

(Snip)...One of the reasons NATO uses a solid bullet instead of a hollowpoint, it does not cause as much injury to the person you shoot and it wounds them enough that they are out of action (and a wounded man is paydirt since it takes around 2 extra men to take care of him). ...(Snip)

The main reason they do is 1) they must pierce armor and 2) the Geneva (sp?) convention prohibits the use of hollowpoint ammunition in warfare.

I used to carry various automatic weapons for a living and I learned a few things about the modern M-16's which I thought were interesting. The first generation of M-16 (the A-1) used a 1 in 12 twist rifling in the barrel which caused the bullet to rotate slower than the 1 in 9 twist in the M-16 A-2 barrel. This meant the bullet isn't as stable over distance but it's much more devastating to get shot with (the slower rotating bullet) because once it hits anything it tumbles end over end. The Russians found out that the AK-74 (5.45X39) did the same thing in Afghanistan in the 80's. Most of the countries that have designed their own 5.56mm rifles (.223) have gone back to the lighter (55gr.) round with the 1 in 12 twist barrel. My Korean K-2 is that way.

 

[70]

....(snip)

Last year only 225 people were cleared with justifiable homicide out of 14,054 homicides (edit: actually I think you have to add the 225 to the 14,054 so 14,279). You are also about 3 times more likely to die in an argument or other non-felony altercation than you are during a felony act. Of those felony acts you are far more likely to die during a robbery than a burglary (a whopping 96 incidents last year). But hey, if everyone were carrying a gun, at least we could settle those arguments faster when we were on our way to rob someone. I just pulled every single number out of there. Go have a look:

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

Do you know why you are more likely to be injured in a robbery?

Because you are there. In a burglary, the only person there is the criminal...Of course it is rare that the criminal is going to be injured in a burglary, and no one else is there.

That is a poor comparrison.

 

[70]

....(snip)

People need to get off their high horse on this issue. Although many people around the world are dying, literally, to get into this country, they represent a small population of their home countries. I would bet there are as many people there who hate the U.S. as want to come here. And saying we are so much better than Ethiopia or Slovenia is not really saying much. Countries like Germany, Canada and England are just as flooded with immigrants as we are. People are just trying to get anywhere than their own bad homeland.

My guess it's the over emphasis on individuality and self-worth. When you believe that you are the most important person in the universe then anyone else's opinions, possessions, or even life becomes non-worthy to you.

On a little side note. Has anyone else noticed that the Christians on this board seem to have the most violent solutions to things?(hmm)

Actual, the US has the most immigrants than the other countries...We have the problem of dealing with a number of non-like minded individuals.

The people going to other countries are like minded with th epopel who live there.

I think you need to get off your high horse. You seem to post in here like you are all mighty and not a part of it. But if you live, you are. Get over yourself.

The fact of the matter still comes down to this, if you don't like the way the system is here, chgange it. If you can't change it then leave. Otherwise, quit you bitchin'.

What does religion have to do with any of this? No one in here has even stated what religion they are. Stop assuming things.

 

[Mad Ryan]

Don't mind Pingdum...

Most of the time he's just trolling and the rest of the time he's just a dumbass.

 

[pingdum]

Actual, the US has the most immigrants than the other countries...We have the problem of dealing with a number of non-like minded individuals.

We have the most immigrants because we have physically have the most space of any free country. Except maybe Russia, and I would bet they're not high on the list of places people are trying to get to.

The people going to other countries are like minded with th epopel who live there.

Since neither of us have statistics to back ourselves, I'm going to go with my gut which says most people seeking freedom will go to whatever free country will take them or where their family is. My wife is a refugee from Laos and she has family that has emigrated to the US, but also to Canada, Japan and Australia.

I think you need to get off your high horse. You seem to post in here like you are all mighty and not a part of it. But if you live, you are. Get over yourself.

I don't get this part.

The fact of the matter still comes down to this, if you don't like the way the system is here, chgange it. If you can't change it then leave. Otherwise, quit you bitchin'.

I'm not sure what you mean, I love it in the US. I love immigration, I think we should have open immigration.
Why do I only get the whole "love it or leave it" routine. The whole point of threads like these is to discuss (b**** about) these issues. And how do you know I'm not involved in working on changing things?

What does religion have to do with any of this? No one in here has even stated what religion they are. Stop assuming things.

I was going on things others have posted before, and I did say it was a "side note".

 

[70]

We have the most immigrants because we have physically have the most space of any free country. Except maybe Russia, and I would bet they're not high on the list of places people are trying to get to.

Since neither of us have statistics to back ourselves, I'm going to go with my gut which says most people seeking freedom will go to whatever free country will take them or where their family is. My wife is a refugee from Laos and she has family that has emigrated to the US, but also to Canada, Japan and Australia.

Then why did you make the comment in the first place?

I don't get this part.

You said, "People need to get off their high horse on this issue. Although many people around the world are dying, literally, to get into this country, they represent a small population of their home countries."

To me that seems you are on a "high horse" about the issue yourself.

To which I replied, "I think you need to get off your high horse. You seem to post in here like you are all mighty and not a part of it. But if you live [here], you are. Get over yourself."

I'm not sure what you mean, I love it in the US. I love immigration, I think we should have open immigration.
Why do I only get the whole "love it or leave it" routine. The whole point of threads like these is to discuss (b**** about) these issues. And how do you know I'm not involved in working on changing things?

I was lumping everyone who "bitches" about the issue and who remains uninformed for the most part. So, if that's not you, then don't worry about it.

And I never said you were or were not involved in anything.

I was going on things others have posted before, and I did say it was a "side note".

A "side note" which still has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand...

 

[pingdum]

A "side note" which still has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand...

A side note by definition has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[kc5zom]

The main reason they do is 1) they must pierce armor and 2) the Geneva (sp?) convention prohibits the use of hollowpoint ammunition in warfare.

Check your sources. That is not the Geneva Conventions (not that the United States has ever shown any interest in the parts banning chemical / biological weapons as they pertain to its own actions). That is actually the Hague Convention, which the United States did not sign.

But, I have never expected the pro-gun lobby to be well informed. They mainly just shout about the United Kingdom and cry like little girls whenever any sane gun control measure is proposed.

 

[JDuncan]

But, I have never expected the pro-gun lobby to be well informed. They mainly just shout about the United Kingdom and cry like little girls whenever any sane gun control measure is proposed.

I have yet to read about any sane gun control measures in this thread. Care to enlighten me?

 

[kc5zom]

Sane measure #1 - All firearms require mandatory registration. Unregistered firearms which are seized (regardless of guilt, subject to search and seizure restrictions) are immediately destroyed. Anyone caught with an unregistered/licensed firearm is placed on a list for a period (a year or so) that they cannot purchase firearms. A second violation within that year will result in further penalties, up to and including loss of ability to own a firearm. There would be a waiting period before these restrictions would take effect, to allow citizens to register their weapons and pass a competency exam. All owners are responsible for their firearms (which they pretty much already are), except in cases of proven theft or loss. All thefts must be reported. If my son takes my firearm, and is underage, to go shoot all of his classmates, then not only am I subject to civil remedies but will, after due process, lose my right to ever own a firearm again and will have to turn in every firearm I own for destruction. I may also be subject to further criminal penalties as well.

Sane measure #2 - All firearm owners must pass a minimal competency evaluation before they are allowed to register or purchase firearms. The intent being to make sure you aren't giving some moron a lethal weapon that can't even read or doesn't know which end not to point at his foot. They should pass a brief live fire exercise and prove they can safely handle a weapon (loads it properly, etc). They will also receive a thorough background screening at this point. No guarantee that it will catch everyone, but anyone convicted of a felony or a certain number or type of misdemeanors will be unable to receive a license permitting them to own firearms.

Sane measure #3 - Outlaw the private sale of firearms. Require all firearm purchases to go through an licensed agent who will charge a government specified fee for the service. The agent will be responsible for briefly investigating the past history of the firearm (so maybe someone whose firearm has been stolen years ago can get it back) and filling out the necessary paperwork for the transfer. Selling a firearm outside these channels (or even giving it away for free) will be considered trafficking and based on the circumstances carry weighted fines, firearm ownership penalties, and possibly jail time (for instance if the weapon were being moved for drug related activities).

Sane measure #4 - Every handgun purchase / transfer will be subject to a $5 tax unless the handgun is being purchased by a law enforcement officer for duties of law enforcement. The tax will be used to offset the enormous costs the state and federal governments spend treating gunshot wounds every year. An additional tax will be placed on handgun ammunition as well. Since rifles and shotguns comprise only a small percentage of firearm fatalities they would be exempt from this tax (except in the case of rifles or shotguns that are illegal for hunting in that state, ie a semi-automatic rifle above .22 caliber or a home defender shotgun without a plug).

Sane measure #5 - Mandatory supplemental prosecution when an illegal weapon is used in a crime. If an unregistered (or illegally modified) firearm is used in a criminal act (no matter how trivial) there will be mandatory supplemental prosecution for using an illegal firearm. The excess sentence will depend on the severity of the crime, all criminals charged and convicted under the supplementary prosecution automatically lose their rights to purchase firearms for life. Penalties will rise each incident, we can let the more harmless drug users / dealers out for all I care to fit these people in jail.

Sane measure #6 - punish the hell out of agents who violate these laws or forge documentation.

Sane measure #7 - Revoke firearm ownership privileges for anyone caught carrying a concealed firearm without a concealed weapon permit for it. And destroy every single firearm they have.

 

[kc5zom]

Do you know why you are more likely to be injured in a robbery?

Because you are there. In a burglary, the only person there is the criminal...Of course it is rare that the criminal is going to be injured in a burglary, and no one else is there.

That is a poor comparrison.

More I was laughing because everyone seems to think they can use them for home defense. Yet 225 out of 250 million is only 0.0000009% chance a year that an individual in the United States will get to use their gun in a justifiable homicide. Besides the fact most robberies occur during the day and on houses that are unoccupied, most criminals aren't idiots. Paydirt for a burglar are firearms, jewelry, and electronics. Valuable by weight and difficult to trace unless the owner kept good records and gets lucky when the criminal sells it. So basically you are more likely to have the gun stolen out from under your bed while you are at work during the day than you are to ever get to use it on someone. So you are giving the criminal a freebie and basically adding more weapons to the underground everytime you purchase a firearm.

 

[JDuncan]

Sane measure #1 - All firearms require mandatory registration. Unregistered firearms which are seized (regardless of guilt, subject to search and seizure restrictions) are immediately destroyed. Anyone caught with an unregistered/licensed firearm is placed on a list for a period (a year or so) that they cannot purchase firearms. A second violation within that year will result in further penalties, up to and including loss of ability to own a firearm. There would be a waiting period before these restrictions would take effect, to allow citizens to register their weapons and pass a competency exam. All owners are responsible for their firearms (which they pretty much already are), except in cases of proven theft or loss. All thefts must be reported. If my son takes my firearm, and is underage, to go shoot all of his classmates, then not only am I subject to civil remedies but will, after due process, lose my right to ever own a firearm again and will have to turn in every firearm I own for destruction. I may also be subject to further criminal penalties as well.

Firearms registrations are in use today in several countries and even states in this nation. They make NO difference to the bottom line with regards to crimes committed with guns. You can register guns til you are blue in the face. As long as there are criminals, they will have guns, and their guns won't be registered. Unless you reduce the number of criminals, you will not reduce gun crimes.

Sane measure #2 - All firearm owners must pass a minimal competency evaluation before they are allowed to register or purchase firearms. The intent being to make sure you aren't giving some moron a lethal weapon that can't even read or doesn't know which end not to point at his foot. They should pass a brief live fire exercise and prove they can safely handle a weapon (loads it properly, etc). They will also receive a thorough background screening at this point. No guarantee that it will catch everyone, but anyone convicted of a felony or a certain number or type of misdemeanors will be unable to receive a license permitting them to own firearms.

FFL holders are already responsible to determine if someone is competent to own a firearm. All FFL holders have the ability and the responsibility to deny a firearms transaction if they don't feel it is on the level or up to par. Background checks are already required in all 50 states to buy guns. The above will have NO effect on crime rates, as criminals don't go to gun stores to purchase guns. They hit up johnnie on the street.

Sane measure #3 - Outlaw the private sale of firearms. Require all firearm purchases to go through an licensed agent who will charge a government specified fee for the service. The agent will be responsible for briefly investigating the past history of the firearm (so maybe someone whose firearm has been stolen years ago can get it back) and filling out the necessary paperwork for the transfer. Selling a firearm outside these channels (or even giving it away for free) will be considered trafficking and based on the circumstances carry weighted fines, firearm ownership penalties, and possibly jail time (for instance if the weapon were being moved for drug related activities).

While you are at it, outlaw all private sales of anything. Cars, Alcohol, Cigarettes, and anything else that can kill or is bad for you. Makes the same difference on the crime rate. This inititave would be great except for the fact that criminals won't use it. You have just made law abiding citizens lives harder without ANY reduction in crime rates. Remember, the number of criminals has not gone down.

Sane measure #4 - Every handgun purchase / transfer will be subject to a $5 tax unless the handgun is being purchased by a law enforcement officer for duties of law enforcement. The tax will be used to offset the enormous costs the state and federal governments spend treating gunshot wounds every year. An additional tax will be placed on handgun ammunition as well. Since rifles and shotguns comprise only a small percentage of firearm fatalities they would be exempt from this tax (except in the case of rifles or shotguns that are illegal for hunting in that state, ie a semi-automatic rifle above .22 caliber or a home defender shotgun without a plug).

I agree, we all need to pay more taxes. Especially since we all are responsible for the gunshot wounds inflicted by criminals on the street that are having to be paid for by the government. There just isn't enough money to go around, what with having to pay for the criminals education in our prisons, his food and healthcare, his cable tv and internet access, and his welfare for his 10 kids from 5 different crackwhore mothers. I am so glad to know that the money I work my ass off for every day of the week goes to such honorable causes and I am sure that more tax dollars thrown at all of these things will continue to make life better for someone. I mean, afterall, its all our faults that these people are criminals in the first place... The only benefit that this measure would have would be if ALL money collected was channeled into Law Enforcement, but since it would end up in the general fund like all the rest, it would have ZERO effect on crime rates while costing lawabiding citizens more money for nothing. Johnnie on the corner doesn't collect taxes for his guns.

Sane measure #5 - Mandatory supplemental prosecution when an illegal weapon is used in a crime. If an unregistered (or illegally modified) firearm is used in a criminal act (no matter how trivial) there will be mandatory supplemental prosecution for using an illegal firearm. The excess sentence will depend on the severity of the crime, all criminals charged and convicted under the supplementary prosecution automatically lose their rights to purchase firearms for life. Penalties will rise each incident, we can let the more harmless drug users / dealers out for all I care to fit these people in jail.

There is already a law against using a firearm in the commission of a crime which can be charged separately. Anyone who has committed a felony or misdemeanor that could be punishable for more than one year has already lost their right to purchase firearms for life. It is there and it does NOTHING to the existing crime rates. Have criminals... Have crime... What part of that do you not understand? You seem to like the drug dealers an awful lot. Maybe you have sampled to much of their wares and that is why these ideas seem so good to you.

Sane measure #6 - punish the hell out of agents who violate these laws or forge documentation.

Again, already against the law to forge documents and break laws. Duh. Has how much effect?

Sane measure #7 - Revoke firearm ownership privileges for anyone caught carrying a concealed firearm without a concealed weapon permit for it. And destroy every single firearm they have.

People found carrying concealed without a permit DO lose that firearm and ARE prosecuted. Depends on where you are at, but in several states, it does make it where you can no longer own a firearm. Incidentally, those states have the highest gun crime rates.

I dunno, I still don't see any truly sane suggestions here. All I see is limitations on me, a law abiding citizen, from owning the very weapons that could save my life while my tax dollars keep going to help keep criminals fit and healthy until they are unleashed back on me. Capital punishment needs to be used swiftly and judiciously now that DNA evidence is available. Prison does need to be work camp and not a holiday. Criminals need REAL motivation to go straight. Then, AND ONLY THEN, will you see a reduction of crime in this country, gun or otherwise.

 

[70]

A side note by definition has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Actually it does. It is a part of the arguement that supports the overall view.

Which, in this case, religion has nothing to do with gun control IMHO...

 

[loj68]

Sane measure #1 - All firearms require mandatory registration. Unregistered firearms which are seized (regardless of guilt, subject to search and seizure restrictions) are immediately destroyed. Anyone caught with an unregistered/licensed firearm is placed on a list for a period (a year or so) that they cannot purchase firearms. A second violation within that year will result in further penalties, up to and including loss of ability to own a firearm. There would be a waiting period before these restrictions would take effect, to allow citizens to register their weapons and pass a competency exam. All owners are responsible for their firearms (which they pretty much already are), except in cases of proven theft or loss. All thefts must be reported. If my son takes my firearm, and is underage, to go shoot all of his classmates, then not only am I subject to civil remedies but will, after due process, lose my right to ever own a firearm again and will have to turn in every firearm I own for destruction. I may also be subject to further criminal penalties as well.

Sane measure #2 - All firearm owners must pass a minimal competency evaluation before they are allowed to register or purchase firearms. The intent being to make sure you aren't giving some moron a lethal weapon that can't even read or doesn't know which end not to point at his foot. They should pass a brief live fire exercise and prove they can safely handle a weapon (loads it properly, etc). They will also receive a thorough background screening at this point. No guarantee that it will catch everyone, but anyone convicted of a felony or a certain number or type of misdemeanors will be unable to receive a license permitting them to own firearms.

Sane measure #3 - Outlaw the private sale of firearms. Require all firearm purchases to go through an licensed agent who will charge a government specified fee for the service. The agent will be responsible for briefly investigating the past history of the firearm (so maybe someone whose firearm has been stolen years ago can get it back) and filling out the necessary paperwork for the transfer. Selling a firearm outside these channels (or even giving it away for free) will be considered trafficking and based on the circumstances carry weighted fines, firearm ownership penalties, and possibly jail time (for instance if the weapon were being moved for drug related activities).

Sane measure #4 - Every handgun purchase / transfer will be subject to a $5 tax unless the handgun is being purchased by a law enforcement officer for duties of law enforcement. The tax will be used to offset the enormous costs the state and federal governments spend treating gunshot wounds every year. An additional tax will be placed on handgun ammunition as well. Since rifles and shotguns comprise only a small percentage of firearm fatalities they would be exempt from this tax (except in the case of rifles or shotguns that are illegal for hunting in that state, ie a semi-automatic rifle above .22 caliber or a home defender shotgun without a plug).

Sane measure #5 - Mandatory supplemental prosecution when an illegal weapon is used in a crime. If an unregistered (or illegally modified) firearm is used in a criminal act (no matter how trivial) there will be mandatory supplemental prosecution for using an illegal firearm. The excess sentence will depend on the severity of the crime, all criminals charged and convicted under the supplementary prosecution automatically lose their rights to purchase firearms for life. Penalties will rise each incident, we can let the more harmless drug users / dealers out for all I care to fit these people in jail.

Sane measure #6 - punish the hell out of agents who violate these laws or forge documentation.

Sane measure #7 - Revoke firearm ownership privileges for anyone caught carrying a concealed firearm without a concealed weapon permit for it. And destroy every single firearm they have.

yeah, I second the "no flippin' way" on these measures. This just makes it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns. Stats already show a large portion of gun crimes are done with stolen guns.........these restrictions only restrict the people that aren't the problem.

 

[kc5zom]

I agree, you are riding the short bus. It is all really simple. If a firearm is used in a crime and then destroyed it does not exist anymore. If the guy who pulled a handgun robbing a convenience store spends 5 extra years in jail because he did it, then (guess what) he is not out there committing more crimes.

The pro-gun lobby is just a bunch of whiny bitches. Don't place restrictions on me because I am a law abiding person. Hey buddy, welcome to the ******* real world (and they all say they are law abiding). There are a lot of non-law abiding people. IF you punish them it is a disincentive for them not to commit that crime. If you were really a law abiding citizen then you would not mind registering your weapons because you would have nothing to hide. But you are stuck in your fantasy I want to rebel against the government world and think that guns, because of the 2nd amendment to make sure that this nation had resources to defend itself (ie a militia) when the regular army was weak, have this special little place and they should be subject to absolutely no regulation whatsoever. As to whether the laws in place prevent crime or not, nobody knows. Neither side has any ******* idea if they work in the United States, and if they tell you that they do they are full of s***. The gun laws we have right now are so watered down and useless that I doubt they have any effect at all.

 

[70]

More I was laughing because everyone seems to think they can use them for home defense. Yet 225 out of 250 million is only 0.0000009% chance a year that an individual in the United States will get to use their gun in a justifiable homicide. Besides the fact most robberies occur during the day and on houses that are unoccupied, most criminals aren't idiots. Paydirt for a burglar are firearms, jewelry, and electronics. Valuable by weight and difficult to trace unless the owner kept good records and gets lucky when the criminal sells it. So basically you are more likely to have the gun stolen out from under your bed while you are at work during the day than you are to ever get to use it on someone. So you are giving the criminal a freebie and basically adding more weapons to the underground everytime you purchase a firearm.

That is a burglary not a robbery. A robbery is where the victim is present and is theatened with force or violence or force or violence is actually used.

A burglary is hwere no one is home.

I don't see the sense in making more gun control laws in the case you state. A gun safe is more likely to keep the gun out of a burglars hand than more laws...

And it is a whole new crime if a burglar has a weapon, such as a gun, when he leaves a premises. At least it is in Colorado