Suggestions for P5 stereo setup for a car-audio newbie???

[ggweci]

ok, i'll be picking up my '03 P5 in a month or so and i plan on upgrading the "poor" sounding stock system shortly after, and was looking for some advice...i want something that will sound good while keeping my stock head-unit (this is a MUST, as i am paranoid about attracting thieves...my Civic was broken into 3 times!!! ) will this be a huge problem???...i plan on replacing all the speakers, amping them, and getting a sub...

i've been looking at (and have heard great things about) the Infinity line of speakers and have been eyeing the Reference series in 5.25" components for the fronts and 6.5"s for the rears...can someone recommend a good amp to power all of these?...oh, and are the Kappa line of speakers much better than the Reference ones?

as for the sub, i'm looking and something like the Infinity Basslink or a Bazooka tube, as i don't want to loose too much truck space...i've heard the Basslink in a friend's car and it sounded really good to me...how do these two units compare?

what would be the expected price for all these components, preferably in CDN dollars? how much approx. for the install?

sorry for all the questions, but like i said, i'm a newbie

thanks in advance

 

[1sty]

to Keep the stock headunit just get an amp with speaker level inputs. I would use Alpines V-Power series since they perform well and are relativly inexpensive. The baselink is OK but the Bazooka tubes are junk, many of the ones I have used recently have had turn on pops amoung other issues. Honestly I would use a 10" sub in a box which will take up less room then a tube and about the same as a bass link. A ALpine V-Power 5 channel will work very well and costs, $250 american, sorry I don't know canadian. then I would use a JL Audio 10W3 in a box ruffly .6-.8 cubit ft in airspace. JL has exact recommondations on their site for box size. A custom box will run about $90 bucks and the sub is $99. I have installed this setup numerous times and have always been happy. Additionaly the amp is small enough to be mounted under a seat. And I haven't seen a theif yet bother with an under seet amp, they usualy only go for the ones on the back seat.

 

[ransom]

How will it sound

I am also interested in this, since I would love to keep a stock look. I am a real, real newbie, though, and my question is if I do what 1st MP3 suggests (amp and sub--keep stock HU and speakers), will it actually sound good?

I just picked up my new P5 yesterday (yeah!), and am quite disappointed in the sound of the stereo. I had a 96 Grand Cherokee with the factory "premium" system (Infinity speakers were probably the only thing "premium" about it) and I figured that my P5 with 6 speakers would sound about as good, and I discovered I was very wrong. But I'm so much of a newbie that I don't know if the reason it sounds so crappy is the HU or the speakers--or, like we're talking about here--it just needs an amp and a sub.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Rider69]

keeping the stock Head Unit

I know there many that like the Stock HU for looks or aestetics, but I just replaced my stock HU with a Pioneer 9300 and the diference is night & day between the two. My recommendation is to ditch the stock HU.

 

[1sty]

The signal of a stock radio is actualy very good these days but it lacks power. Running a small 4 channel amp to sock speakers off of a newer stock deck is a great improvement in volume and clarity. I personaly like it over just a head unit replacement. Spealers are deffinitly a good thing to upgrade but I personaly haven't ever hears A set I liked for under $100

 

[ransom]

So, what you're saying is that the problem with our stock stereo in the P5 is that it's just lacking power? I want to make sure I understand. If you add power, does that not just mean you'll have a louder, crappy sounding stereo, or does it somehow add clarity and make the bass actually sound like bass (right now bass sounds like midlevel)? I guess I'm wondering what the technical explanation is for the problem that the stock stereo has. Thanks for your patience with an audio idiot.

 

[1sty]

So, what you're saying is that the problem with our stock stereo in the P5 is that it's just lacking power? I want to make sure I understand. If you add power, does that not just mean you'll have a louder, crappy sounding stereo, or does it somehow add clarity and make the bass actually sound like bass (right now bass sounds like midlevel)? I guess I'm wondering what the technical explanation is for the problem that the stock stereo has. Thanks for your patience with an audio idiot.

Your definitly not an idiot you are actualy asking some very indepth questions for a newbie so good for you (thumb).

I am speaking more generaly in my earlier coments. I have little experience with your stock mazda head unit. However, generaly these days a head unit signal is good except it lacks the power to properly control a speakers giving it a higher level of detail. All a speaker does is vibrate at certain frequencies creating sound. The more power and control that speaker get the quicker and more dramaticly it can change those frequencies and play them acuratly. Amplifiers have saveral other properties other then just power, THD and damping factor are 2 important ones. An out board amp give you far more power and at much lower THD, total harmonic distortion. To most this simpl means tha amp can play louder, this is true but only a small part of it. The amp can also play lower volumes with more control and less distortion creating better sound. Damping factor is usualy summed up as the ability of an amp to properly control a driver. Basicly it how well the amp can distiquish and contol the speakers movements. Higher damping means a better clarity between frequencies and levels.

Both of these will increase if you use an aftermarket head unit but in no way as much. For example look at the size of even the smallest 25 x 4 amplifier of decent build. It costs close to $200 and is about 10" x 10" x 3". How can a CD player that at most is 7" x 7" x 3", be a reciever, tuner, cd player amplifier and processor for the same price and spec and still deliver the same quality. Simply put it can't. An out board amplifier contains cleaner circuitry period.

This is the first step in audio I like since I feel it gives you the most return per dollar. Therews no set order you have to do As long as you get to your goal without wasting alot of money.

 

[ransom]

Wow, thanks for the help 1st MP3. Okay, you've convinced me (I'm easily convinced). So, what I think I'd like to do is start off with just an amp and maybe a subwoofer (is a sub really necessary for good bass--I'm not talking about bass that thumps everyone's windows at stop lights--just good sounding low bass?).

I think I've seen you recommend this in a post: "ALpine V-Power 5 channel will work very well and costs, $250 american, sorry I don't know canadian. then I would use a JL Audio 10W3 in a box ruffly .6-.8 cubit ft in airspace. JL has exact recommondations on their site for box size. A custom box will run about $90 bucks and the sub is $99."

Which Alpine amp are you specifically recommending? Can I install the amp and sub myself, or do I need to let a professional handle it? (keep in mind I've never installed anything audio in a car) I've also seen people say we need line output converters--does this complicate matters dramatically? Finally, where would I order all this--the amp, the sub (installed in a box?), and the line output converters?

Thanks!!

 

[1sty]

The protege is actualy easy to install equipment into so you may be able to handle it. The alpine V power amp doesn't need a converter becuase it has speaker level input that you attach the speaker wires into. You will need a wire harness adapter though to reference which wires are which for getting remote turn on and speaker leads. ALso the V power alpine doesn't have enough power to drive a W3 JL but it is good for a W0 and you won't be able to hear the difference.

Whats your budget for all this?

A sub woofer is neccassary for good sub bass, below 80 Hz. but a single JL 10W0 in a well built properly sized sealed or ported box with the 5 channel alpine amp will be fine in the P5. You'll get good bass and it will be nice and accurate.

 

[blynzoo]

The protege is actualy easy to install equipment into so you may be able to handle it. The alpine V power amp doesn't need a converter becuase it has speaker level input that you attach the speaker wires into. You will need a wire harness adapter though to reference which wires are which for getting remote turn on and speaker leads. ALso the V power alpine doesn't have enough power to drive a W3 JL but it is good for a W0 and you won't be able to hear the difference.

Whats your budget for all this?

A sub woofer is neccassary for good sub bass, below 80 Hz. but a single JL 10W0 in a well built properly sized sealed or ported box with the 5 channel alpine amp will be fine in the P5. You'll get good bass and it will be nice and accurate.

damn it's good to have you here

 

[ransom]

Budget is about $500 total. I'm not sure I know what a wire harness adapter is. Can I get all that for $500. If I did get this professionally installed, what would I expect to pay for installation? Should I order the pieces over the internet, and then take them to an installer (cheaper this way?)?

Thanks again.

 

[1sty]

I never reccomend buying over the internet. It just to much of a hassle if something goes wrong.

Amp - $250
wiring kit - $40
speaker wire 200 ft of 18 guage - $20
Wire harness - $15
sub JL 10W0 - $99
Box - $90

total is just over $500

The amp will cost $75 installed at a tweeter or hifibuys and the sub they should mount free if you get the box and sub from them also ask them to use 12 guage wire for the sub other wise they'll use 16 or double 18. Also if you do go to a store they will try to sell you what they have instock and frankly will tell a million lies to get you to buy things they have so they don't have to order anything. If they convince you of another product thats fine but if you want you can always ask me first to make sure their not screwing you over. Also these componenets, other then the Jl sub can all be bought from crutchfield and you can use a Qlogic box but I don't reccomend it. Also Jl sells prebuilt boxes with subs already installed in them. The boxes are great and match the subs well. you would be looking at the JL CS110R-W0. its one 4 ohm 10W0
already in a JL build specific box and is around $150

 

[1sty]

damn it's good to have you here

Much appreciated
(yippy)

Just so you guys know I have worked on a P5 before And I have dismantled my entire interior twice now. I ran speaker wire into each fron door and have dynamated everything other then floor and roof. If anyone needs some info just ask.

 

[ransom]

Very very helpful. One final question: is this such a no-brainer operation that just about any car stereo place can do it, or do I need to find a shop that is already familiar with working on my car or working with these recommended products? In other words, do I need to be on guard about someone screwing up my car as badly as I would if I tried to install it myself?

 

[1sty]

I would say more so in that there are alot of hacks out there. Any shop with an install bay is capable but I would only go to an installer you know is reputable. You can check on a shops reputation from the BBB in your area. also if you have had any friend that have a system that looks and sounds good that they haven't had problems with. If you have a tweeter near buy I'd say let them do it. Even if they screw up our company will step up and not only admit mistake but fix it quickly for no cost.

 

[ransom]

Okay, 1st MP3, I've got a couple more questions since I've now called up a couple audio shops and asked them about their ability to do this (HiFi Buys and Cartronics).

First, one of them (HFB) said he basically wouldn't do this for me because he said I'd be really unhappy with the results. That the quality of the stock hu would sound crappy no matter what you did to amplify it. I really didn't have a comeback for him.

Second, the one who said that they do do these things from time to time, said that in order to get "clean" sound out of my unit I'd have to not only go the line out converter route, but I'd have to not just get the cheap $20 line out converters, but that I'd need the higher quality $90 LOCs (and I think I need multiple ones, right?). Is he full of bull?

Everyone wants to sell me a different head unit, but I really don't want to do that (due to the theft factor, and the fact that I hate all the tiny buttons on the hus they're selling these days--our factory unit is easy to use and it flows with the look of the rest of the interior) if I don't have to.

Any thoughts? (sorry I'm being such a pain about this--I just want to make sure that I'm doing this right). Thanks

 

[1sty]

Working in the industry I know the bullhit. You just got two examples of it. There some truth that the signal won't be as good as it can be with RCAs but as long as you run power down one side of the car and the speaker wires down the other it will be fine. Then just get a clean ground and set the gain right and it will sound fine.

And the bulls*** on the line converter is a classic the onse that cost 90 bucks make a difference but for that price your better off getting a new head unit.

I realy wish I had a P5 so I good get some pics of how to install in it.

If your not going to do it yourself the best advice I an give is to have the shop start the job by running the speaker leads to the amp and let you hear it then if it isn't to your liking use the $20 converter. Remember every thing they sell you they get comission on. I will check in with one of my guys tomarrow to see if he know anyone around you.
So you know all you need to do this install is a pair of strippers, tape, assorted screw drives a set of crimpers and the supplies/ hardware.
Also if anyone is in my area and want a free install like this in there 2001 or up Protege, P5 preferably let me know so I can get some good pics of a basic install.

 

[ransom]

I think you're exactly right, 1st MP3, about the incredible amount of BS in the car audio industry. I went to another audio place today and got still a different story from a salesman. This guy tells me that speakers are what's really going to make a difference. !!! He said that an amp will do no good, nor will a head unit. That's it's the speakers that make stock stereos sound bad. I'm starting to think that they know nothing more than I do about this stuff and that they just say whatever comes to mind.

I really wish I could just give the install I try myself. I know that if you order equipment from Crutchfield they supposedly give you a lot of install technical assistance. Perhaps that's the route to go???. Pictures, as you say, would be great. I really appreciate your willingness to help.

 

[Sir Nuke]

1st in NH....as you are all to aware this is the EXACT install that WE talked about this past summer when I was up there visitintg....I really wish I was closer than 1800 miles away or we would be doing this install in my P-5 now......I too want to do the exact same thing.

the one question I have is this.....do you suggest running NEW speaker wires to the speakers in the doors? and if so....I hear its virturally imposible to run it there with out drilling new holes, which I REALLY do not want to do. What size wire did you run to your door speakers and how did you get it there without drilling new holes in the door and the jam.

 

[1sty]

If the amp your going to use is more then 35 watts rms at 12 volt and not a BS brand that inflates rating then yes. Mobileaudio.com has some interesting info on the subjest of running wires. An Alpine Vpower would not require new wires. An Xtant 4004 or Alpine MRV-F540 would definitly need it. I actualy had an older amp that did 50 x 4 running over stock wires with no problems at all.

You might want to sticky this for everyone.


Just as help to other. It is possible to run new speaker wires into our doors trough the molex so no drilling of metal is neccassary.

I ran 14 guage monster cable wire into mine. Basicly I ran wires directrly from the amp. At the molex, plastic white clips in the door jam, remove the rubber boot and use a pick to depress the rounded areas of the molex ot relaease it, Basiclty the 1,5,7,11 o'clock positions and the molex will come out. Their are 2 side of each molex so pull up a the top release tab and thay will come apart. In the left door their is a nice open area of 4 pins that are unused, drill them out I tok out 2 at a time with a 1/4 drill bit. untill the speaker wires fit throught. then in the same posistion on the cars side molex drill out the same area. Slap the clipps back together and make sure the wire fits through. When it fits runthe wire inside of the car up thought the hole of the molex in the sheet metal then trought the molex then the rubber boot into the door. Replace the boot on the molex and slap the molex back in the door. DONE!

On the passanger side do the same except their is a wire from the cars side in the clip that goes no where on the doors side, I ut it back and taped it off to be safe. then just do the same as the drivers side door.

This was done on my MP3 and on a Protege 5 I worked on, Some cars may be different so if their is a wire on both side of the clip, DONT DRILL IT OUT! Also don't drill throught the center the retaining clips has to go through there to hold the two sides together.