Speed3 Cp-e Intake Has Arrived!!!!

[joshj84]

CP-E

Have you guys added up the total amount of HP / TQ your products can do?

As in the Downflow and exhaust and Intake?

 

[joshj84]

I'm currently curious on getting all 3 of those things and then doing the performance tuning to get max hp...

 

[www.cp-e.com]

CP-E

Have you guys added up the total amount of HP / TQ your products can do?

As in the Downflow and exhaust and Intake?

No, we've been asked several times before, and trust me we'd love to take a day and go thrash some cars at a dyno with our products on it. It make for great advertisements, and would be grat fun. But there are two issues.

One, we don't have a 4wd dyno in-house, so any dyno sessions we schedule are paid for by us, just like any other customer. And being a smaller company, we can't really spend a whole lot of money playing around on the dyno.

Second, we're a manufacturing facility. Manufacturing the products we sell keeps our lights on, and anytime we're not working on our products, we're not making money. We're also only four people strong, and we all work pretty much 7 days a week, so finding spare time to go dyno cars is difficult. So we do the next best thing.

We believe that any product we sell should have some justification that it performs the way we say it does. We were frustrated as enthusiasts ourselves, that most aftermarket products don't come with any form of validation. So we put forth the extra effort and at least dyno all the individual products we offer, to prove their effectiveness. That way when you buy from us, you know exactly what you're getting.

So the short answer is that we'd love to, but there isn't enough time or money in the day to do so!


Jordan

 

[joshj84]

Jordan,
PM Sent.

 

[peanutsparts]

Has no advantage? First of all, I think people are getting confused over the meaning of the "green warranty." Here is an exact quote directly from Mazda:

"MAZDASPEED "Green" Performance Accessories must be specifically approved by Mazda for their particular application. These parts are warranted for the first 12-months/12,000 miles from the date of purchase, excluding labor."

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/dis...arameter=mazdaSpeedAccessoriesWarranty&bhcp=1

In no way does it indicate that Mazda has to honor your warranty if your product has a green warranty. It says the product needs to be approved by Mazda. So you need to check with your dealer if they will honor the warranty or NOT. It also says the MS CAI has a 12,000mile/12month warranty, whereas our CAI carries a lifetime warranty.

And regarding the MAF housing. We're all engineers here, and we've all been trained in fluid dynamics. We know that there is a restriction created when you change pipe diameters, but what Mazda did was take a shortcut when they made their pipe. We went through the extra effort of appropriately sizing the MAF housing so that the fuel trims almost exactly matched the stock fuel trims. If you don't do this, like Mazda didn't, then you may inadvertantly change the air/fuel mixture at closed-loop cruise.

Mazda (or whoever designed their intake, more on this later) took the easy way out by using a pipe that is *close* to (but not the same) the diameter of the stock MAF housing. That way, they don't need to machine a dedicated MAF housing, and can save money by keeping the entire pipe one diameter. So that decision wasn't based on flow restriction, it was based on *cost savings.* The people who think this was done for more performance are living in a dream world (sorry). We, on the other hand, know exactly how we altered the fuel trims, and we made sure that they were consistent before we shipped the product. Did Mazda do this? Your guess is as good as mine, but we have the data to prove it.

We also went through the extra effort of machining an airflow straightener out of billet aluminum, to match our billet MAF housings. If you look in your cp-e intake MAF housing, you'll see one. Why did we go through the extra effort to make these? Because if you look at your stock airbox, you'll see the same style airflow straightener. This is to ensure that the MAF samples the air consistently. Without it, the MAF won't measure the incoming air correctly and may result in erratic performance. This is why we call our CAI the "XCel," because we can guarantee no CEL thanks to our properly engineered MAF housing. We spin them on a CNC lathe and machine them to a diameter with a tolerance of about +/- 0.005", or about three times the diameter of a human hair.

Plus, Mazda has not, and will not post a dyno graph for their intake. So their intake could theoretically make 100hp, or -100hp. So until they actually dyno their product to prove it's effectiveness, like we have, how can you compare the performance between our CAI and theirs? You KNOW how much our CAI makes, but if we said our intake made 20hp with no dyno charts, would you believe us?

And this whole misconception that Mazda designed the CAI just isn't true. Just because it says "Mazdaspeed" on it doesn't mean they made it. If you look at the SPEED6 Mazdaspeed CAI, you'll notice it is IDENTICAL to the AEM CAI. Mazdaspeed bought the design from AEM and put their name on it. I'm not sure who made this particular SPEED3 pipe for them however.

Everything isn't always as it meets the eye. I know everybody on this board isn't familiar with cp-e, as we're new in the SPEED3 community. But what you'll learn, and quickly, is that not only do we engineer our products, instead of just throwing parts together and hoping they work, but we're also straight shooters. We share data with our customers, we love teaching people about the ins-and-outs of the turbocharged MZR, and offer the highest quality parts on the market. I think this will become clearer to people in time.

If you guys every have questions about why we made something the way we did, instead of assuming just ask the makers! I'm almost always on the boards and am happy to answer any questions you guys have. When we say we make the best parts in the business, we're not kidding, and we'll be happy to explain exatly why if you ask us


Jordan

My bad... i didn't mean to open that can of worms.

 

[RonTonkinMazda]

Has no advantage? First of all, I think people are getting confused over the meaning of the "green warranty." Here is an exact quote directly from Mazda:

"MAZDASPEED "Green" Performance Accessories must be specifically approved by Mazda for their particular application. These parts are warranted for the first 12-months/12,000 miles from the date of purchase, excluding labor."

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/dis...arameter=mazdaSpeedAccessoriesWarranty&bhcp=1

In no way does it indicate that Mazda has to honor your warranty if your product has a green warranty. It says the product needs to be approved by Mazda. So you need to check with your dealer if they will honor the warranty or NOT. It also says the MS CAI has a 12,000mile/12month warranty,

Well lets see they say the part has a green warranty and then state the green warranty so by your standards no where does it say you HAVE TO covers your intakes for life. Mazda will cover the part at any dealer for the 12month 12k miles then after that its treated as an oem part so say you get a check engine light or soemthing and your under your base warranty they will not say well you have a intake so go away. Like i have said in other treads on other boards sell your product don't bash others. If your product is so great let it speak for itself and people will see.

 

[www.cp-e.com]

My bad... i didn't mean to open that can of worms.

Oh no, it's fine. It needed to be explained, so I thank you for your post. I appreciate you brining it up because those features we designed in wouldn't have been noticed otherwise


Jordan

 

[joshj84]

I don't see how CP-E Bashed Mazda's product at all he stated the facts.

 

[www.cp-e.com]

Well lets see they say the part has a green warranty and then state the green warranty so by your standards no where does it say you HAVE TO covers your intakes for life. Mazda will cover the part at any dealer for the 12month 12k miles then after that its treated as an oem part so say you get a check engine light or soemthing and your under your base warranty they will not say well you have a intake so go away. Like i have said in other treads on other boards sell your product don't bash others. If your product is so great let it speak for itself and people will see.

I'm just going by what is posted on Mazda's website. If I'm mis-interpreting the information, than I appreciate your input since you work for a dealer. But it sounds like maybe you were just as confused as I am:

"ok i emailed mazda to find out how they treat the intake in referance to the new car warranty like if the CEL comes on and its a MAF will they say no deal cause of the intake or will the car be treated as stock. Also i asked after the 12/12 warranty on the part is up how they treat the rest of the warranty on the car. I should hear back in a day or so."

Also, according to the Magnuson-Moss Act, isn't our intake subject to the same dealer benefits you're touting? I appreciate you chiming in because I'd like to get this cleared up for everybody.


Jordan

 

[desperado-c]

Well lets see they say the part has a green warranty and then state the green warranty so by your standards no where does it say you HAVE TO covers your intakes for life. Mazda will cover the part at any dealer for the 12month 12k miles then after that its treated as an oem part so say you get a check engine light or soemthing and your under your base warranty they will not say well you have a intake so go away. Like i have said in other treads on other boards sell your product don't bash others. If your product is so great let it speak for itself and people will see.

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. If what you're saying is true, you'd actually start off with less coverage in the first 12 mos, (since the green warranty is really a very limited warranty offering only a replacement w/o labor) and then after 12 mos. you'd get an increase in coverage since you're saying it's treated as OEM. That would be like the blue warranty but with a 12 mo. delay. Again, just doesn't make any sense.

Also, is this OEM treatment after 12 mos. in writing anywhere? The only place I've seen any suggestion that green warranty parts are treated as OEM at any time is when they are installed by the dealer before the purchaser takes delivery of the car. That's on the Mazdaspeed Accessories section of the website, but nowhere else. Some guy on mazda 6 club claimed that the new MS Catalog says dealer installed parts are treated as OEM, but I haven't seen any follow up on that. I really wanted the MS parts to be covered by the blue warranty at a reasonable price, but it seems to me that Mazda decided it wouldn't work for them and backed out when they lowered the MSRP's.

Also, I am not taking a position on which is functionally better b/c I saw that with the MS6 anyway, there wasn't much difference. Perhaps like a lot of other people, I'm buying CPE b/c I like to support their elegant David vs. Goliath engineering efforts and RPM Store is offering it in red.

 

[sixerjdm]

Ditto for the AEM/Mazdaspeed relationship,

For what its worth, I have done 30 to 40 AEM intake installs and they are great kits, but the welds, sizing, fit and finish, filter choice, and bends on the CP-E intake are of the highest quality I can remember seeing even on common applications that have been in the market for years. When you get your CP-E kit, you WILL spend time staring at the welds on the pipe. Very nice execution with disregard for sales volume is what you will sense like a factory race team would treat its partners to.

I tried uploading my photos, but I may have inadvertently erased the program I needed to make that seemingly simple task easy. Advice would be great and again sorry for the delay. Also if anyone could let me know how to post a video in an efficient fashion it would be much appreciated.

PS anyone in the Appleton, WI area in here?

 

[JimmyMac]

Sign up for photobucket. I did not to long ago. Very easy to use and sign up for. And it's free. You can even upload video as well.

I'm still waiting for my CAI. But I'm sure I won't be disappointed in the quality. I'll take pics as well and post them up as soon as I do.

 

[WagonMan]

There seems to be a lot of confusion on what the green warranty means, here is my take on it. This understanding was confirmed by my dealership.

The CAI covered by a 12mo, 12k mile warranty. If anything goes wrong with the CAI after that it is not covered. The CAI has no impact on the original warranty that came with your car. Thus if something other then the intake goes bad it is covered under your regular warranty. From my understanding the warranty on the CAI and your new car warranty are treated separately and are not interelated.

The blue warranty on the other hand is different. It effectively transfers your new car warranty remaining over to the Mazdaspeed part you put on. So if you have 3 years left of new car warranty, the new mazdaspeed part will have a 3 year warranty. However, if you have less then 12 months remaining on your new car warranty, the Mazdaspeed part will have a 12 month warranty, and will be warrantied for a period after your new car warranty expires.


I think the above explanation of the green warranty is what Rontonkinmazda was trying to explain, hopefully I made it a bit clearer, or way less clear, who knows.

 

[nondual]

There seems to be a lot of confusion on what the green warranty means, here is my take on it. This understanding was confirmed by my dealership.

The CAI covered by a 12mo, 12k mile warranty. If anything goes wrong with the CAI after that it is not covered. The CAI has no impact on the original warranty that came with your car. Thus if something other then the intake goes bad it is covered under your regular warranty. From my understanding the warranty on the CAI and your new car warranty are treated separately and are not interelated.

The blue warranty on the other hand is different. It effectively transfers your new car warranty remaining over to the Mazdaspeed part you put on. So if you have 3 years left of new car warranty, the new mazdaspeed part will have a 3 year warranty. However, if you have less then 12 months remaining on your new car warranty, the Mazdaspeed part will have a 12 month warranty, and will be warrantied for a period after your new car warranty expires.


I think the above explanation of the green warranty is what Rontonkinmazda was trying to explain, hopefully I made it a bit clearer, or way less clear, who knows.

What warranty covers the Mazdaspeed intake?

 

[smoker6]

Green.

 

[www.cp-e.com]

There seems to be a lot of confusion on what the green warranty means, here is my take on it. This understanding was confirmed by my dealership.

The CAI covered by a 12mo, 12k mile warranty. If anything goes wrong with the CAI after that it is not covered. The CAI has no impact on the original warranty that came with your car. Thus if something other then the intake goes bad it is covered under your regular warranty. From my understanding the warranty on the CAI and your new car warranty are treated separately and are not interelated.

The blue warranty on the other hand is different. It effectively transfers your new car warranty remaining over to the Mazdaspeed part you put on. So if you have 3 years left of new car warranty, the new mazdaspeed part will have a 3 year warranty. However, if you have less then 12 months remaining on your new car warranty, the Mazdaspeed part will have a 12 month warranty, and will be warrantied for a period after your new car warranty expires.


I think the above explanation of the green warranty is what Rontonkinmazda was trying to explain, hopefully I made it a bit clearer, or way less clear, who knows.

Thanks for checking with your dealer on their interpretation of the green warranty. I'm going to make some calls tomorrow too to see if I can corroborate your dealer's interpretation of the warranty.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is exactly what the green warranty offers over your legal rights automatically granted by the Magnuson-Moss Act, which states:

Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.

http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-2669.html

The M-M Act clearly states that a dealer does not have the right to void a warranty based on the addition of an aftermarket product unless the aftermarket product *caused* the warranty claim. So isn't the green warranty basically a 12-month/12,000 mile warranty for the CAI?


Jordan

 

[smoker6]

Thanks for checking with your dealer on their interpretation of the green warranty. I'm going to make some calls tomorrow too to see if I can corroborate your dealer's interpretation of the warranty.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is exactly what the green warranty offers over your legal rights automatically granted by the Magnuson-Moss Act, which states:



http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-2669.html

The M-M Act clearly states that a dealer does not have the right to void a warranty based on the addition of an aftermarket product unless the aftermarket product *caused* the warranty claim. So isn't the green warranty basically a 12-month/12,000 mile warranty for the CAI?


Jordan

That's exactly correct. Green warranty simply means the CAI itself is warrantied for 12months/12k miles. Has nothing to do with whatever other warranty you may have on your car.

 

[Rotus8]

That's exactly correct. Green warranty simply means the CAI itself is warrantied for 12months/12k miles. Has nothing to do with whatever other warranty you may have on your car.

It seems to me that if for example you have a CV joint go out, if you have the Mazdaspeed CAI they fix it, if you have a different CAI they could claim that the extra power from the CAI caused the premature failure of the joint so it is not covered.

 

[RonTonkinMazda]

Thanks for checking with your dealer on their interpretation of the green warranty. I'm going to make some calls tomorrow too to see if I can corroborate your dealer's interpretation of the warranty.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is exactly what the green warranty offers over your legal rights automatically granted by the Magnuson-Moss Act, which states:



http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/id-2669.html

The M-M Act clearly states that a dealer does not have the right to void a warranty based on the addition of an aftermarket product unless the aftermarket product *caused* the warranty claim. So isn't the green warranty basically a 12-month/12,000 mile warranty for the CAI?


Jordan

a dealer can choose not to work on your car if it has aftermarket parts its differant from voiding your warranty. so you bring a car in with a check engine light and a aftermarket intake they can say bring it back when its stock and we will look at it. Also in your mazda warranty book it says aftermarket parts will void your warranty which is within the M-M act. So the M-M act does not stop a dealer from sending you away to return your car to stock before they work on it so with mazdaspeed parts you don't have to mess with it.

 

[smoker6]

It seems to me that if for example you have a CV joint go out, if you have the Mazdaspeed CAI they fix it, if you have a different CAI they could claim that the extra power from the CAI caused the premature failure of the joint so it is not covered.

It depends on the dealer. Some dealers will look at the Mazdaspeed CAI as just another aftermarket product, and may still decline work on your car. I would call your dealer beforehand and ask to see if they have a preference, as it will make your life easier later on.