Speed3 Cp-e Intake Has Arrived!!!!
- Thread starter sixerjdm
- Start date
I'm tired so sorry if this post doesn't clear anything up like I expect it to. lol
The Mazdaspeed CAI is GREEN in Mazda's eye's. That means that it has a 12month/12k mi warranty, separate from anything else. If the Mazdaspeed CAI is found to have caused damage to some other part if your car, your warranty will not cover it, as its still an after market product. So in those terms, its the same as the CP-E intake or any other CAI. As far as warranty goes, the only advantage with the Mazdaspeed CAI is that you have that 12 month warranty on it. I'm pretty sure the after market scene (read CP-E or others) wouldn't leave you on ice if you were shipped a defective CAI though, seeing as how they want your business.
My suggestion?
Call your dealer, see if they care what brand CAI you get, and if they don't, go with whatever you want, as the warranty hardly makes any difference. If they do, then it might save you some trouble to go with what they suggest.
Take all this with a grain of salt, as this is how I see things, and of course I'm prone to the embarrassment that is human error.
The Mazdaspeed CAI is GREEN in Mazda's eye's. That means that it has a 12month/12k mi warranty, separate from anything else. If the Mazdaspeed CAI is found to have caused damage to some other part if your car, your warranty will not cover it, as its still an after market product. So in those terms, its the same as the CP-E intake or any other CAI. As far as warranty goes, the only advantage with the Mazdaspeed CAI is that you have that 12 month warranty on it. I'm pretty sure the after market scene (read CP-E or others) wouldn't leave you on ice if you were shipped a defective CAI though, seeing as how they want your business.
My suggestion?
Call your dealer, see if they care what brand CAI you get, and if they don't, go with whatever you want, as the warranty hardly makes any difference. If they do, then it might save you some trouble to go with what they suggest.
Take all this with a grain of salt, as this is how I see things, and of course I'm prone to the embarrassment that is human error.
The only problem with that is that if you call Fred at your dealer, and he says yes, but then Fred (no, the other Fred) tells you no, then what do you do. There are some things that need to be written. What's written is clear.smoker6 said:
I think its a Gray area, and those that chose the MS CAI are banking on the Grayness. Heck, its a Mazdaspeed car with a Mazdaspeed part. Fix the damn thingy.
I actually went to my dealer and they said buying and installing this product will void my warranty because its supposedly made for "off road use".....and that if i order it and they install it, it will void my warranty but that's the parts manager at the dealership i went to.....
BS flag just went up. Installing after market parts has nothing to do with voiding your warranty. It voids your warranty for that specific part since you don't have the original in anymore, but that's about it (unless they can prove with little doubt that the part caused whatever damage you want repaired).blkMS3 said:
I don't understand the doubt here,
There must be a host of very average and poorly informed dealerships out there.
CASE 1: We are a Hyundai dealership as well, we warranted 90% of the parts and labor involved with fixing a Tiburon that had a dime size hole in one of the pistons due to a wet nitrous system. Once we got the skinny, we covered everything with no questions asked, except by Hyundai, because it was only the third reported internal engine failure on any Hyundai for the last 10 years. Hyundai became aware of the situation and chose to value customer satisfaction on this young man's new car.
CASE 2: We are a Mitsubishi dealership, we do warranty work on many Evo's with various modifications and even clutches within a reasonable time frame. We merely advise as to how much boost and how lean the fuel mixture can be run. In the event that Diamond care inspection asks us a question, we put the car back to stock as much as possible and describe what happened. Once we are awarded with such an extensive repair, our top technician gets a high paying job for a few hours which the customer is not penalized for.
CASE 3: Finally, we are a VW/Audi dealership, and we will honor any work that needs to be done with no relation, or partial relation, to an aftermarket complication. 25% of our customers cars have GIAC chips in them and they are hard to find so nobody is looking.
It is true that the only warranty voided out completely, is the part you are replacing and regardless everyone is talking about their cars in such doubt when what accounts for most modern failures on cars are electrical functions for minor luxury ammenities, ala VW Audi.
PS I am checking out photobucket and thanks.
There must be a host of very average and poorly informed dealerships out there.
CASE 1: We are a Hyundai dealership as well, we warranted 90% of the parts and labor involved with fixing a Tiburon that had a dime size hole in one of the pistons due to a wet nitrous system. Once we got the skinny, we covered everything with no questions asked, except by Hyundai, because it was only the third reported internal engine failure on any Hyundai for the last 10 years. Hyundai became aware of the situation and chose to value customer satisfaction on this young man's new car.
CASE 2: We are a Mitsubishi dealership, we do warranty work on many Evo's with various modifications and even clutches within a reasonable time frame. We merely advise as to how much boost and how lean the fuel mixture can be run. In the event that Diamond care inspection asks us a question, we put the car back to stock as much as possible and describe what happened. Once we are awarded with such an extensive repair, our top technician gets a high paying job for a few hours which the customer is not penalized for.
CASE 3: Finally, we are a VW/Audi dealership, and we will honor any work that needs to be done with no relation, or partial relation, to an aftermarket complication. 25% of our customers cars have GIAC chips in them and they are hard to find so nobody is looking.
It is true that the only warranty voided out completely, is the part you are replacing and regardless everyone is talking about their cars in such doubt when what accounts for most modern failures on cars are electrical functions for minor luxury ammenities, ala VW Audi.
PS I am checking out photobucket and thanks.
I think in the end it depends on the dealer to a large degree. We have all heard stories about dealers not willing to do warranty work for stupid reasons (e.g. you have aftermarket shifter bushings, so I'm not going to fix the broken strut on your hatch).
However, I think with a Mazdaspeed green part only the most foolish dealership would not do the warranty work, but of course there are some out there.
I also think that the full car normal warranty continues to apply to everything but the Mazdaspeed CAI. Even if the CAI is suspected to cause a problem in the engine, that problem should be covered. I base this on the following language use to describe the Green warranty:
MAZDASPEED Green Performance Accessories must be specifically
approved by Mazda for their particular application.
To me they put that in to make sure the part is being put on the car it is intended for, and as such should not impact other parts of the vehicle it was designed to be used for.
Adding any CAI will put you at risk for not being covered for something, however I think with a Mazdaspeed part your risk is maybe 15% of having a problem with warranty, with a non-approved Mazda part I would guess your odds of having a problem with warranty are more like 75%.
However, I think with a Mazdaspeed green part only the most foolish dealership would not do the warranty work, but of course there are some out there.
I also think that the full car normal warranty continues to apply to everything but the Mazdaspeed CAI. Even if the CAI is suspected to cause a problem in the engine, that problem should be covered. I base this on the following language use to describe the Green warranty:
MAZDASPEED Green Performance Accessories must be specifically
approved by Mazda for their particular application.
To me they put that in to make sure the part is being put on the car it is intended for, and as such should not impact other parts of the vehicle it was designed to be used for.
Adding any CAI will put you at risk for not being covered for something, however I think with a Mazdaspeed part your risk is maybe 15% of having a problem with warranty, with a non-approved Mazda part I would guess your odds of having a problem with warranty are more like 75%.
The "official" aftermarket parts from auto companies are not necessarily good parts. I wouldn't put any faith in a label alone. Use your heads and examine the intakes without prejudice.
By getting a improperly-sized, Mazda-branded intake, you're sacrificing your car for the warranty. How is that justifiable? If your dealer sucks, remove the intake before going in.
Here's something I wrote on the subject and goes into some details on a Subaru-branded intake for the Legacy:
http://motorist.blogspot.com/2006/08/aftermarket.html
From the article:
You're dealing with an engine that runs high compression and high boost, and will need VERY VERY precise air readings to meter fuel. MAF accuracy is one of the MOST important measurements on the entire car! Compromising it with a questionable intake is ludicrous.
At the same time, the pressure drop along the stock MAF in its housing is rather large, so it makes sense to upgrade it. It seems to me that there are only two ways to do this: a large diameter intake with a custom tune (fuel tuner and dyno time required for this) or a custom machined MAF housing like CPE's XCel intake.
Using a simple aluminum tube intake without tuning is, in the long run, a huge mistake.
By getting a improperly-sized, Mazda-branded intake, you're sacrificing your car for the warranty. How is that justifiable? If your dealer sucks, remove the intake before going in.
Here's something I wrote on the subject and goes into some details on a Subaru-branded intake for the Legacy:
http://motorist.blogspot.com/2006/08/aftermarket.html
From the article:
Now, the Mazdaspeed intake doesn't look as embarrassing as the Subaru SPT one, but this still goes to show how lousy official products can be. Besides, Mazdas are generally much, much more sensitive to MAF readings than older-tech cars. Any inaccuracy is going to be a huge deal.
You're dealing with an engine that runs high compression and high boost, and will need VERY VERY precise air readings to meter fuel. MAF accuracy is one of the MOST important measurements on the entire car! Compromising it with a questionable intake is ludicrous.
At the same time, the pressure drop along the stock MAF in its housing is rather large, so it makes sense to upgrade it. It seems to me that there are only two ways to do this: a large diameter intake with a custom tune (fuel tuner and dyno time required for this) or a custom machined MAF housing like CPE's XCel intake.
Using a simple aluminum tube intake without tuning is, in the long run, a huge mistake.
Last edited:
knowledge007
Banned
You know what I say screw the damn warranty. The warranty we have is such crap that is will be up before the year is over b/c I know as an owner of the gt that I can not stop driving this car. I have purchased and awaiting to receive the 3" turbo back with cat and will not hesitate on installing this item. I have the HKS BOV and the cp-e CAI installed also. If you think about it you are not really changing the way the car functions. You are just modifying your BOV and intake along with your exhaust.
Lets face it the stealerships will try anything to screw you...(moon)
Yep I said it.(shocked)
Just do whatever mods you want to your car, but be prepaired to pay out of your own pocket if your stealership doesn't warranty it.
I think with todays cars you are safe with the basic's intake, exhaust etc.
This motor has been out in the speed6 for awhile so I would think any problems would have already turned up.
Now back to my Margarita(cheers)
Yep I said it.(shocked)
Just do whatever mods you want to your car, but be prepaired to pay out of your own pocket if your stealership doesn't warranty it.
I think with todays cars you are safe with the basic's intake, exhaust etc.
This motor has been out in the speed6 for awhile so I would think any problems would have already turned up.
Now back to my Margarita(cheers)
stock it if you head to dealer
With all the points that everyone is debating about...
1st : know your dealer, strike a conversation with them .. there is surely one guy that share the same value(mod, jdm, tuning) as you and let him know what he thinks or how this dealer office works!
2nd : if you think they gonna give you BS, change your DP and CAI if you need to get them to fix it .. ! IF you dun want to , i am sure an average joe could change your brake pad and change your oil .....!
3rd : Dun think about it, there is alwiz another dealership nearby and please MOD your car.... Its a free country , U are missing out... !
With all the points that everyone is debating about...
1st : know your dealer, strike a conversation with them .. there is surely one guy that share the same value(mod, jdm, tuning) as you and let him know what he thinks or how this dealer office works!
2nd : if you think they gonna give you BS, change your DP and CAI if you need to get them to fix it .. ! IF you dun want to , i am sure an average joe could change your brake pad and change your oil .....!
3rd : Dun think about it, there is alwiz another dealership nearby and please MOD your car.... Its a free country , U are missing out... !
knowledge007 said:
I agree as well. I knew when I bought this car.. I would not care about the warranty because I knew I was gonna mod it to hell and back. As they say.. "gotta pay to play". On the other hand.. before this car I had the MZ3. I got the extended warranty. I knew I wasn't gonna mod it up or nothing. And I was having the local dealer take care of all the tune ups and oil changes, etc. So it really depends what your intentions are here. I talked to the service manager about the warranty and mods/aftermarket stuff. And he said it may void the warranty on that part. But it would not necessarily void out the car warranty unless if that part caused a failure or breakdown of the car. But he said he would not turn me down for any service or work. He would gladly take my money!! hehe..
Besides what I posted earlier about the SPT intake? Are you not paying attention in this thread?RonTonkinMazda said:
Hell, there's tons of proof out there- Injen released an intake for the Mazda6 that threw the fuel trims off off by 15%! AEM saw this, posted on the Mazda6 forums and said, "We'll make a properly engineered intake and will not throw CEL's." They didn't, and it did- the fuel trims were still off by several percent. I should also mention that for the Mazda6, the Mazdaspeed intake was just a rebranded AEM intake!
I currently drive an STI that I bought with an AEM intake, and the fuel trims on it were off by just 2%. That 2% caused a plethora of problems including hesitation (I presume from alternating between too rich and too lean), overboosting, and of course a CEL for running lean- not good while overboosting!
The problem, as was said earlier, is that every big company I've seen builds their intakes from off-the-shelf aluminum tubing. That tubing does not come in specific enough sizes to match the stock housing. Furthermore, even if the tubing diameter does match, rarely does a company spend the time matching the depth in which the MAF is mounted or the specific direction of flow through the tube. That takes R&D and money, and to be honest, the quality control on china parts isn't good enough that the intakes would all be made to the same tolerances anyway.
Didn't I read that the Mazdaspeed intake is just a 2.75" tube with a MAF flange on it? If so, it only takes a little deductive reasoning to predict what will happen. You're better off with the stock part if you care about the health of your engine. The stock piece may not flow well, but it's accurate, and accuracy is the most important part of an intake.
Custom Performance Engineering CNC's a very intricately shaped and sized part in their for the MAF housing from a solid piece of aluminum. Nobody else does this. Since it is CNC'd, the process is very repeatable and precise. This is why their intakes are better than everyone elses and why they can guarantee no CEL's (which is really a zero fuel trim guarantee).
Don't take my word for it- ask someone with a cheap "MAF on tube" intake to look at their fuel trims throughout the rev range.
Last edited:
knowledge007
Banned
What Bashing???
CP-E did NOT bash the manufacturer of the mazdaspeed3 CAI. Learn how to read and follow. He simply stated the facts. And yes, Mazda could say "warranty as been voided". The dealer can do w/e they please unless you have it in writing. All I can say is the CP-E is doing the job right by covering every little detail with their products so your car can run not only more powerful but also efficiently.
RonTonkinMazda said:
CP-E did NOT bash the manufacturer of the mazdaspeed3 CAI. Learn how to read and follow. He simply stated the facts. And yes, Mazda could say "warranty as been voided". The dealer can do w/e they please unless you have it in writing. All I can say is the CP-E is doing the job right by covering every little detail with their products so your car can run not only more powerful but also efficiently.
www.cp-e.com said:You do realize that you're arguing about the effectiveness of the Mazdaspeed CAI with the designer of a competing .....
.....You told me to take your results with a grain of salt, and that's exactly what I'm doing
Jordan
I'm not trying to downplay your product. I got a little excited and posted my results on all the CAI threads, but didn't pay close enough attention to the title of this one, sorry. This is your thread and I should use the MS CAI thread.
As for my analysis, I agree there are errors in my approach. I just wanted other MS3 owners to get a glimpse of what I found. I did make the conditions clear except for the fact that I have stock test results on a car with 7k miles and the air filter may reflect that in lower airflow. What I will do to make amends is purchase a new stock air filter, re-attach the stock airbox and take 6 runs in 3rd gear on dry pavement. Then I will redo the test with the MS CAI re-installed (6 runs in 3rd gear). This is no problem for me because I want to know what gains this CAI provides. I will then post my results under one thread.
Given time, I will try to schedule a dyno on the stock configuration and then another in the MS CAI configuration.
By the way, I agree that Mazda lacks technical supporting data for their equipment. They even used Car and Driver's test results on their MazdaUSA website, which seems specious to me.
One last thing, I read everything you wrote; you failed to recognize that I'm not using a G-meter device. this is purely through the OBDII. This SW must be using a discrete differential equation to calculate the power because they are using parasitic drag in the setup file. As you know, parasitic drag increases at a rate proportional to the square of the velocity. This is not an easy problem to solve numericaly with out a constant acceleration. What I would like find out from Auterra is how they do their calculations. Sounds like another action item for me (poke).
Again, sorry to use your thread.
Perro del Sol
Member
- :
- 2003 MSP, Spicy Orange, 2004 Mazda 6 Hatch, 2004 Mazda 6 Wagon
stretch said:
Stretch, you should have event taken this further, as CPE has made the only intake, its MAFci that has not thrown a CEL and by far has produced the biggest gains on our NA 6S's!
