Buy the 2024 CX-5 NA to avoid cylinder head crack issue?

[mycoy]

Hello, Everyone:
I have a 2019 CX5, ~ 30K miles, going out of warranty by the end of June. So far it is fine.
I was planning to keep it for another 3 ~5 years.

But just a few weeks ago, I suddenly learned the cylinder head crack issues on CX5.
Even the problem doesn't seem to be wide-spread now, I think the situation could also dramatically change after a few years as the machines aging.
Nobody knows whether or when it could happen.
I feel like this is a lottory game. I can try my luck, and it could be fine.
But I'm not a lucky guy, so I have decided to get rid of this vehicle while it is still good.
I've also tried to buy extra warranty from third parties, but after learned the issue they just ignored me...

I've reserved a RAV4 hybrid (XLE, with all packages, no markup).
Then I suddenly noticed the 2024 CX5. For most of the lower trims, e.g. the preferred package, currently there is no CD and i-stop.
Since this CX5 preferred is 8~9K cheaper compared to the RAV4 I reserved, it becomes attractive to me.

Previously I was thinking the cylinder head crack issue primarily comes from the CD. Without the CD, I thought it should be free of the defect.
But then I read a few threads, it seems that my understanding may not be true, the defect may or may not be directly related to the CD.

Now, I get very confused about what to do for the next.
I do not drive much, 6~8K per year. But I do want to keep the vehicle for 10 years or more.

Any suggestion or comment is welcome.
Thank You

 

[yrwei52]

I believe you’ve got confused on cracked cylinder head problems from the 2.5L NA with cylinder deactivation and the 2.5T on CX-5. Both cylinder heads were modified from original SkyActiv-G 2.5L to accommodate turbo and cylinder deactivation. Unfortunate both modified heads could crack and the repair is very expensive.

2.5T suffered the cracked head problem due to heavier exhaust manifold for turbo and caused the coolant leak, and Mazda has issued a TSB and claimed the head and exhaust manifold gasket had been updated since 2021 MY to fight against crack.

2.5L NA with cylinder deactivation comes with modified cylinder head and lock-up clutch in torque converter from original SkyActiv-G 2.5L and 6-speed auto to accommodate added cylinder deactivation since 2018 CX-5. The head could crack due to a 2-mm thin wall at the cracked area. The ATF is easily to get contaminated by the iron powder due to the excessive wear by new single lock-up clutch.

2.5 NA Cracked Cylinder Head with Oil leaking...How common is this?

Cracked Block (2018 CX-5)

2017~2024 CX-5 Chirp Noise from Automatic Transaxle on 3-4 upshift - Bulletin 05-005/23

So if you can find a 2024 CX-5 2.5L NA without cylinder deactivation that should be the way to go getting a CX-5. You want to make sure the car really has no CD which can be verified by VIN、engine and transmission serial numbers. Don’t trust whatever the salesman says.

Honestly if you have allocated a Toyota RAV-4 XLE Hybrid without any markup, that would be a good purchase too. Yes the initial price is higher, but you definitely can get much higher resale value with a Toyota hybrid when it’s time to sell it or trade it in. You really don’t pay more everything considered but can enjoy much better gas mileage.

 

[sm1ke]

First, we don't really know for sure that cylinder deactivation, by itself, has anything to do with the cracks on the N/A 2.5L. What we do know is that those engines that have CD, also have the cylinder head that has a risk of cracking. So there is a correlation, for sure. Thus if you were planning to get a new CX-5, the most reliable one to get would be the N/A 2.5L without CD or i-Stop, as there is less "tech" and fewer components that could potentially need repair/replacement.

Just a word of caution - you should be wary regarding the allocation you got for the RAV4 Hybrid. Even though you allocated it with no markup, when it comes time to sign for it, they could still pull some dealer shenanigans and throw a markup on it last minute. Happened to my cousin when he bought his Tacoma. They care about money first and foremost, and they know someone else will pay the markup if you pass on it. They're a good dealer if they honor your allocation price, but most of the time dealers (in general, across all brands) are only decent at best.

Also, I do not agree that the initial selling price of a Toyota being higher is "worth it". The "Toyota Tax" is real. A brand new RAV4 Hybrid could be marked up $8k higher - but if you decide to sell it in 5 years, you won't be getting that $8k back because it won't be worth $8k more than other used comparable cars. And it'll only get lower as the years go by. Further, higher resale value doesn't mean anything if you plan to keep the car for a long time. At that point, you're paying the markup for the proposed reliability that the car offers, as well as the fuel economy from the hybrid tech (which again, doesn't pay for itself until you've owned and driven the car for a long time). So you can get more for your trade-in, or you can save money on fuel economy, but you can't reap the benefits of both.

Now, given your use case of 6-8k mi per year and a proposed ownership period of 10 years or more, the 2.5L N/A CX-5 without CD and i-Stop is better suited for you. The value of hybrid fuel economy would not be realized and the slightly higher resale value is moot, especially after 10 or more years. Buy the CX-5.

 

[sm1ke]

Oh and one more thing - people like to say "if you're lucky, you never have the head cracking issue". I understand the sentiment. That said, if you're thinking of it like the lottery, the low chance of getting the cylinder head cracking issue is akin to the low chance of actually winning the lottery.

 

[stickerbush]

@mycoy If you really like the car and can afford to trade it for a 2024 without CD then that's what I would do. I traded my 2020 in January just before the powertrain warranty expired for an essentially identical 2024 (same trim, same color) that did not have CD or iStop. I'm happy with that decision. There are also some significant improvements in the entertainment system between those model years.

 

[ruthrj]

You can’t go wrong with either the hybrid RAV4 or the CX-5 (I own both) if you’re not too picky. I agree with sm1ke: don’t get the hybrid for fuel savings alone in your case because you don’t drive a whole lot. I put 50k miles already on my ‘21 so I save a lot in gas. You won’t as much. Those EPA mpg numbers are also best case scenario in summer time.

My mileage is at least 10% worse in northern Alabama winters vs summer (36 mpg vs 40 mpg). The colder your climate the worse your winter gas mileage will be. I also don’t know if Toyota has improved the hybrid battery cable design to combat salty road conditions if this is a factor for you. Look into that if you need to.

The RAV4 is not very quiet in the interior. You will have a lot more road noise than the CX-5. I don’t mind it but there is a night and day difference with cabin and road noise between my vehicles. I added sound deadening to the rear cargo area of the RAV4 and that helped greatly. One day I’ll do the doors.

Driving characteristics will differ greatly. RAV4 steering is numb. The CX-5 wheel is heavier but reactive. The suspension on the RAV4 XLE will differ greatly vs the CX-5. XLE suspension is soft with a lot of body roll on curves (think highway off-ramps). Pretty sloppy. The XSE suspension is so much better to me, tight without being rough, closer to the CX-5s stiffer but sportier handling.

Resale value can be quite different but that’s based on trim. A NA CX-5 is already lower in price, but the first couple years of depreciation will be different for Toyota vs Mazda. I’m upside down on my CX-5 as I bought my 2.5T new, but that cost a lot more than the NA model. My ‘21 hybrid RAV4 with 50k miles is worth only a few thousand less on the used market vs my nearly new ‘23 turbo with 8k miles (but again the turbo depreciates like crazy the first couple of years but you’re looking at the NA trim, not as big a factor for you).

 

[yrwei52]

⋯ Thus if you were planning to get a new CX-5, the most reliable one to get would be the N/A 2.5L, as there is less "tech" and fewer components that could potentially need repair/replacement.

⋯ the 2.5L N/A CX-5 is better suited for you.

You really want to say the 2.5L NA without CD, as that’s the one with fewer components on engine and transmission.

Remember some 2024 CX-5’s still have the 2.5L NA with CD which may have possibility of major problems on engine and transmission mentioned previously. Buyers be aware and make sure you get a 2.5L NA without CD based on VIN、engine / transmission serial numbers.

 

[yrwei52]

⋯ Resale value can be quite different but that’s based on trim. A NA CX-5 is already lower in price, but the first couple years of depreciation will be different for Toyota vs Mazda. I’m upside down on my CX-5 as I bought my 2.5T new, but that cost a lot more than the NA model. My ‘21 hybrid RAV4 with 50k miles is worth only a few thousand less on the used market vs my nearly new ‘23 turbo with 8k miles (but again the turbo depreciates like crazy the first couple of years but you’re looking at the NA trim, not as big a factor for you).

It’s all supply and demand. Toyota hybrids are in high demand on new car market and also in high demand on used car market, hence there’s huge markup over MSRP and long wait time for a new one and high resale value on used car market as you’ve found out.

 

[sm1ke]

You really want to say the 2.5L NA without CD, as that’s the one with fewer components on engine and transmission.

Remember some 2024 CX-5’s still have the 2.5L NA with CD which may have possibility of major problems on engine and transmission mentioned previously. Buyers be aware and make sure you get a 2.5L NA without CD based on VIN、engine / transmission serial numbers.

Yes, I'll correct that for clarity.

Just for reference, MazdaUSA.com's disclaimer (as of today) states:

Due to supply shortages, 2024 Mazda CX-5 2.5 S models produced beginning late 2023 will not include Cylinder Deactivation and i-Stop. Upon supply recovery, these features are intended to be reintroduced. Please see your Mazda Dealer for the most up-to-date information.

 

[N7turbo]

Hmm. "supply shortages"

 

[stickerbush]

make sure you get a 2.5L NA without CD based on VIN、engine / transmission serial numbers.

VIN is easy to get but how would one go about getting engine and transmission numbers on a prospective purchase? And once you have these numbers how would they be used to determine whether or not the car has cylinder deactivation?

 

[wlong01]

IF you like the car and it's been good to you just purchase an extended warranty from Mazda, either Powertrain only or B2B. They're pretty reasonable.

 

[ruthrj]

Just a word of caution - you should be wary regarding the allocation you got for the RAV4 Hybrid. Even though you allocated it with no markup, when it comes time to sign for it, they could still pull some dealer shenanigans and throw a markup on it last minute.

100%. I had a good dealer but holy cow that allocation process was on a whim and prayer. The only thing they tried to stick to me on the day of purchase was 5% APR. They verbally agreed to MSRP in 2021 at a time we know markups were insane. I said fine, I’ll do the 5% APR but I’m refinancing the car tomorrow. They begrudgingly agreed to match credit union APR and commented “you know, there is a line of people out the door who would buy this for thousands more at a higher interest rate”. I replied sure, but that doesn’t mean I SHOULD. The rest of the process was handled in silence lol

 

[mycoy]

I believe you’ve got confused on cracked cylinder head problems from the 2.5L NA with cylinder deactivation and the 2.5T on CX-5. Both cylinder heads were modified from original SkyActiv-G 2.5L to accommodate turbo and cylinder deactivation. Unfortunate both modified heads could crack and the repair is very expensive.

2.5T suffered the cracked head problem due to heavier exhaust manifold for turbo and caused the coolant leak, and Mazda has issued a TSB and claimed the head and exhaust manifold gasket had been updated since 2021 MY to fight against crack.

2.5L NA with cylinder deactivation comes with modified cylinder head and lock-up clutch in torque converter from original SkyActiv-G 2.5L and 6-speed auto to accommodate added cylinder deactivation since 2018 CX-5. The head could crack due to a 2-mm thin wall at the cracked area. The ATF is easily to get contaminated by the iron powder due to the excessive wear by new single lock-up clutch.

2.5 NA Cracked Cylinder Head with Oil leaking...How common is this?

Cracked Block (2018 CX-5)

2017~2024 CX-5 Chirp Noise from Automatic Transaxle on 3-4 upshift - Bulletin 05-005/23

So if you can find a 2024 CX-5 2.5L NA without cylinder deactivation that should be the way to go getting a CX-5. You want to make sure the car really has no CD which can be verified by VIN、engine and transmission serial numbers. Don’t trust whatever the salesman says.

Honestly if you have allocated a Toyota RAV-4 XLE Hybrid without any markup, that would be a good purchase too. Yes the initial price is higher, but you definitely can get much higher resale value with a Toyota hybrid when it’s time to sell it or trade it in. You really don’t pay more everything considered but can enjoy much better gas mileage.

Thank you and everyone,
how can I make sure there is no CD inside the engine?

The head could crack due to a 2-mm thin wall at the cracked area.

Do we know if those 24 non-CD NA models still have the 2mm thin structure.

AFAIK, several key components are modified to implement the CD, both the engine and transmission. We don't know what exactly part shortage they are having right now. But to me, if the shortage is inside the transmission, then it makes sense to also exclude the CD components from the engine, after all there will be no CD why not save some cost?

 

[mycoy]

You really want to say the 2.5L NA without CD, as that’s the one with fewer components on engine and transmission.

Remember some 2024 CX-5’s still have the 2.5L NA with CD which may have possibility of major problems on engine and transmission mentioned previously. Buyers be aware and make sure you get a 2.5L NA without CD based on VIN、engine / transmission serial numbers.

an 'L' in position 8 of the VIN, is this what I should looking for 2.5L NA models?
thank you

 

[mycoy]

@mycoy If you really like the car and can afford to trade it for a 2024 without CD then that's what I would do. I traded my 2020 in January just before the powertrain warranty expired for an essentially identical 2024 (same trim, same color) that did not have CD or iStop. I'm happy with that decision. There are also some significant improvements in the entertainment system between those model years.

Thank you,
how much worse fuel economy do you get?

Do you feel the 2024 model becomes quieter?

 

[mycoy]

First, we don't really know for sure that cylinder deactivation, by itself, has anything to do with the cracks on the N/A 2.5L. What we do know is that those engines that have CD, also have the cylinder head that has a risk of cracking. So there is a correlation, for sure. Thus if you were planning to get a new CX-5, the most reliable one to get would be the N/A 2.5L without CD or i-Stop, as there is less "tech" and fewer components that could potentially need repair/replacement.

Just a word of caution - you should be wary regarding the allocation you got for the RAV4 Hybrid. Even though you allocated it with no markup, when it comes time to sign for it, they could still pull some dealer shenanigans and throw a markup on it last minute. Happened to my cousin when he bought his Tacoma. They care about money first and foremost, and they know someone else will pay the markup if you pass on it. They're a good dealer if they honor your allocation price, but most of the time dealers (in general, across all brands) are only decent at best.

Also, I do not agree that the initial selling price of a Toyota being higher is "worth it". The "Toyota Tax" is real. A brand new RAV4 Hybrid could be marked up $8k higher - but if you decide to sell it in 5 years, you won't be getting that $8k back because it won't be worth $8k more than other used comparable cars. And it'll only get lower as the years go by. Further, higher resale value doesn't mean anything if you plan to keep the car for a long time. At that point, you're paying the markup for the proposed reliability that the car offers, as well as the fuel economy from the hybrid tech (which again, doesn't pay for itself until you've owned and driven the car for a long time). So you can get more for your trade-in, or you can save money on fuel economy, but you can't reap the benefits of both.

Now, given your use case of 6-8k mi per year and a proposed ownership period of 10 years or more, the 2.5L N/A CX-5 without CD and i-Stop is better suited for you. The value of hybrid fuel economy would not be realized and the slightly higher resale value is moot, especially after 10 or more years. Buy the CX-5.

Thank You.
I tend to agree with you about the pricing part.
For Mazda, since I've already fully paid off the loan for my current cx5, I should be able to get 0 APR.
For Toyata, I guess the best APR i can get is 4.75%.
For 30K 5 years loan, this will add another 3000$+ cost, more than enough to pay the gas gap for the 2024 CX5

 

[stickerbush]

Thank you,
how much worse fuel economy do you get?

Do you feel the 2024 model becomes quieter?

I haven't noticed much difference in fuel economy, I'm getting 25.5 since I got the car in January and that's mostly short trips. I've not noticed any difference in quietness. All in all it seems like the same car as 2020 with the exception of entertainment system. The screen is a bit larger and has better resolution and has a lot of the bugs fixed. Car Play integration is mostly seamless now, though still not wireless except on the top trim level. The backup camera is a lot better, brighter with better resolution.

 

[mycoy]

IF you like the car and it's been good to you just purchase an extended warranty from Mazda, either Powertrain only or B2B. They're pretty reasonable.

Warranty is not good enough.
I drive little in the city, most of my drive is long road trips, vacations.

Since this is a defect, not natural wearing, it can suddenly happen, it could just ruin my trip.
I know the change is not high now, but I guess it will go high as the machine ages, I don't like this kind of feeling.

 

[AL Cx5]

X2 on getting 0% financing will pay for A LOT of gas and have more fun driving.

Does anyone factor in the cost of replacing batteries on the Yotas? A battery will wipe out all the gas savings, PLUS a lot more. My Prius friends have had to deal with replacement batteries...

We bought our 24 because of the 0% over 5 years.

Our dealer included an extended, unlimited, drive train warranty at no extra cost. They were a few dollars less than any other deal I could find. Med Center Mazda.