2017~2024 CX-5 Chirp Noise from Automatic Transaxle on 3-4 upshift - Bulletin 05-005/23

[Kedis82ZE8]

APPLICABLE MODEL(S)/VINS

NOTE: Vehicles with cylinder deaction have a "M" as the 8th digit in the VIN for the 2.5L with cylinder deactivation.
2017-2024 CX-5 (2.5L with cylinder deactivation and 6AT)
2018-2021 Mazda6 (2.5L with cylinder deactivation and 6AT)
2019-2024 Mazda3 (2.5L with cylinder deactivation and 6AT)
2020-2024 CX-30 (2.5L with cylinder deactivation and 6AT)

DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may exhibit a chirp noise (stick-slip noise) from the automatic transaxle (AT) when shifting from 3 to 4 while driving.

This may be caused by the automatic transaxle fluid (ATF) being contaminated by iron powder due to excessive wearing of the lock up clutch in the torque converter.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10244672-0001.pdf

 

[Silly Wabbit]

Wow...

 

[stickerbush]

Interesting, I experienced this problem in my 2020 GT and the fix was to replace the entire transmission. It appears they have narrowed the root cause to the torque converter.

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

Even without symptoms and not under warranty I wonder if an owner would want to pursue AT fluid and filter change sooner than later? or is this simply a design flaw of the lock up clutch that may or may not wear out sooner on some?

I guess time will tell if this is a rare issue or shows up with mileage.

@stickerbush - How many miles on yours when AT was replaced?

EDIT: I am assuming '17 on CX-5 is more related to build year for '18 as IIRC the '17 doesn't have CD

 

[i12drivemyMP5]

crap, this is just wonderful stupid news......yeah, cuz i want dealership tearing apart our brand new car and doing this procedure and having any faith in not having 17 other problems from them hacking this up. i am not happy to hear about this at all.

 

[stickerbush]

@stickerbush - How many miles on yours when AT was replaced?

About 3.5 years, 50K miles. I was hearing chirp on other gear transitions but initially it was 3-4.

Replaced under warranty, dealer provided a new loaner CX5 while they had the car. The new transmission, actually a remanufactured unit, performs great, no issues.

 

[Hylux]

Well that explains a lot. Mine went in on Monday for chirp and bad gear changes. They rang me after mazda Australia told them to replace the gearbox. Replacement will be 1 month. Girl who rang me said if it was turbo replacements not available til Feb 2024.

 

[yrwei52]

APPLICABLE MODEL(S)/VINS

NOTE: Vehicles with cylinder deaction have a "M" as the 8th digit in the VIN for the 2.5L with cylinder deactivation.
2017-2024 CX-5 (2.5L with cylinder deactivation and 6AT)
2018-2021 Mazda6 (2.5L with cylinder deactivation and 6AT)
2019-2024 Mazda3 (2.5L with cylinder deactivation and 6AT)
2020-2024 CX-30 (2.5L with cylinder deactivation and 6AT)

DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may exhibit a chirp noise (stick-slip noise) from the automatic transaxle (AT) when shifting from 3 to 4 while driving.

This may be caused by the automatic transaxle fluid (ATF) being contaminated by iron powder due to excessive wearing of the lock up clutch in the torque converter.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10244672-0001.pdf

View attachment 323848View attachment 323849View attachment 323850View attachment 323851View attachment 323852View attachment 323853

This’s yet another “side effect” exposed after Mazda added the cylinder deactivation to the 2.5L NA! Remember Mazda had to modified the SkyActic-Drive 6-speed auto transmission to fight against vibration caused by CD. And this problem applies only those come with CD.

 

[yrwei52]

Even without symptoms and not under warranty I wonder if an owner would want to pursue AT fluid and filter change sooner than later? or is this simply a design flaw of the lock up clutch that may or may not wear out sooner on some?

I guess time will tell if this is a rare issue or shows up with mileage.

Our CX-5’s don’t have cylinder deactivation, I believe this problem shouldn’t happen to those without cylinder deactivation at least based on the TSB. But no matter, we should change our ATF at certain mileage.

I wonder if the new red Mazda ATF-A7 has anything to do with this, as the Service Alert states that on 2033 ~ 2024 2.5L NA engines the ATF-A7 is used only for those with cylinder deactivation.

Service Alert No.: SA-055/23 New Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF-A7)

EDIT: I am assuming '17 on CX-5 is more related to build year for '18 as IIRC the '17 doesn't have CD

It shouldn’t be. This’s a formal document Mazda submitted to NHTSA. More likely Mazda may have installed some early 2.5L NA with CD on the late 2017 CX-5’s. And officially 2018 CX-5 came out late, not until Jan. or Feb. of the 2018. Only VIN can tell the true story, have a "M" as the 8th digit in the VIN.

 

[sinistriel@]

This has been an issue for a little bit. The CD cars do not have the same lockup wet clutch set as the regular skyactivs do. They use a more traditional single clutch with a more aggressive material to survive early lockup. Many oems that have tried early lockup with this style of clutch experience significant issues and early wear. GM with the 6L80/90 family are the most notorious for this. The clutch set that turns on going into 4th is a more aggressive friction material that is already high metal content. The iron contaminates that set and is similar to what happens with a brake pad that becomes contaminated and makes a squealing sound.

 

[yrwei52]

This has been an issue for a little bit. The CD cars do not have the same lockup wet clutch set as the regular skyactivs do. They use a more traditional single clutch with a more aggressive material to survive early lockup. Many oems that have tried early lockup with this style of clutch experience significant issues and early wear. GM with the 6L80/90 family are the most notorious for this. The clutch set that turns on going into 4th is a more aggressive friction material that is already high metal content. The iron contaminates that set and is similar to what happens with a brake pad that becomes contaminated and makes a squealing sound.

Glad you responded and answered some questions I have. Do you think the reman torque converter and new production transmission by Mazda still use the same meterial on the clutch? Looks like it is as the TSB covers the 2024 MY. That means the same problem would happen again even with the reman converter replacement?

And is there anything to do on this problem with Mazda’s new ATF-A7?

 

[i12drivemyMP5]

i'm wondering about just living with the chirp......if and when it happens

 

[sinistriel@]

Glad you responded and answered some questions I have. Do you think the reman torque converter and new production transmission by Mazda still use the same meterial on the clutch? Looks like it is as the TSB covers the 2024 MY. That means the same problem would happen again even with the reman converter replacement?

And is there anything to do on this problem with Mazda’s new ATF-A7?

I don't know what changed in the convereter yet or if there was just a defective material provided to Mazda. A7 is likely not to effect anything, it's very high quality and this also effects FZ cars.

 

[i12drivemyMP5]

So if driving in manual mode with paddle shifters deactivates cd, would it prevent the chirp from happening or sidestep the problem if it was already chirping?

 

[cadcamjim]

What I find odd is that they are saying that this is caused by iron powder contaminating the transmission fluid yet I see no mention of changing the transmission filter.

 

[CX5Nut]

and if you are past your 5-year power warrantee looks like the repair is not covered.

 

[edmaz]

About 3.5 years, 50K miles. I was hearing chirp on other gear transitions but initially it was 3-4.

Replaced under warranty, dealer provided a new loaner CX5 while they had the car. The new transmission, actually a remanufactured unit, performs great, no issues.

Can you post what your normal driving pattern was with this vehicle, prior to getting the tranny replaced? In particular, the amount of stop/go driving, or perhaps even slowing down/speeding up, if you have lots of that where you live. And also how often you did manual shifting. I'm not implying anything with these questions, just looking for information related to the issue.

 

[stickerbush]

Can you post what your normal driving pattern was with this vehicle, prior to getting the tranny replaced? In particular, the amount of stop/go driving, or perhaps even slowing down/speeding up, if you have lots of that where you live. And also how often you did manual shifting. I'm not implying anything with these questions, just looking for information related to the issue.

Daily driving pattern is short trips, less than 10 miles round trip, on secondary roads with 35mph limit. Not much stop/go/slow/fast, just drive to destination and return home.

Twice annually we take vacation, 3000-4000 miles round trip. 60% of that mileage is on interstate with 75-80mph limit, the rest is on state highways with 60mph limit. There's a fair number of mountain passes but nothing particularly extreme.

Once, in 2020, I pulled lightweight trailer with one motorcycle (less than 1000lb gross), approximately 2000 miles.

I don't use manual shifting much, when I do it's usually a downshift to get a little engine braking going down a long hill.

 

[edmaz]

.....
Once, in 2020, I pulled lightweight trailer with one motorcycle (less than 1000lb gross), approximately 2000 miles. ,,,,

Interesting, and thanks for including it. The rest of your driving certainly seems to have been on the benign side. Can't help thinking that driving pattern and habits probably play a factor in this issue. However, I'd also totally agree that people should be able to drive their vehicles any reasonably way they want to, and not have the torque converter fail

 

[madar]

This’s yet another “side effect” exposed after Mazda added the cylinder deactivation to the 2.5L NA! Remember Mazda had to modified the SkyActic-Drive 6-speed auto transmission to fight against vibration caused by CD. And this problem applies only those come with CD.

took the words right out of my mouth.....I guess it's what they call progress.