i just noticed that the rms power range for my infinity 10" sub is 50-250watts and the max is 1000watts...it was wired to my kenwood amp at 460watts...is it better to run at the 150watts thats within the power range or at 460watts?
rms power range
- Thread starter fLyPiNoY7
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sine waves are just that...a sine wave...it's a constant note at a certain frequency. Chances are that you're not playing them. The other thing is, you may be wired for 460W, but chances are your gains are not set up for the full 460W, and that would generally be at your full volume if they were set for it. You should be okay...it's actually better to have extra power versus too little. You can always turn things down.
jersey_emt
Member
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- 04 MSM #1089
Yes it is better to overpower than underpower.
I know it costs you cash...but, really, there are other subs out there that would be a better match for your amp.a company like infinity really won't screw u on their numbers. so chances are u could feed it 1000 watts of clean power and it would take it. what your sending it is fine and it won't do any damage as long as your gains are set right. if your gains are improperly set it won't matter if your running 100 watts 500 watt or 1000 watts u could still blow your setup. most people tend to turn the gain up higher then nessicary thinking they will get more power out of the system.
bridge and go 2 ohms (if you have a DVC and if your amp can handle it)
always better to overkill the power than to overpower and better to overpower than to underpower,
abusing your subs are another thing, if you crank it loud nuff to clip don't expect it to last long
always better to overkill the power than to overpower and better to overpower than to underpower,
abusing your subs are another thing, if you crank it loud nuff to clip don't expect it to last long
Note: This post is directed at no-one. I'm just trying to help debunk one of the biggest car audio myths out there (besides my HU puts out 60x4). 
"Underpowering" will never, ever, ever, ever, ever damage a speaker. Do your speakers suddenly blow when you turn down the volume? Of course not. Also, a speaker will just as happily play 100% distortion as a signal with 0% distortion.
There are two things which can kill a speaker:
(1) Exceeding the speaker's mechanical limits. For example, if you put a 20Hz signal into a tweeter you can pop it without much power at all (much less than its rms power rating). For subs, the enclosure type as a great deal to do with its mechanical limits. Given the same sub, smaller sealed boxes will be less prone to over-exursion than ported or infinite baffle setups.
(2) Exceeding the speaker's thermal limits. This is where you put too much power into a speaker and melt the voice coil or damage something else.
The real mystery that most people don't understand is clipping. When you clip an amp (set the gain too high and ask the amp to give all its got), it can actually produce twice its rms power.
For example, I've got an amp rated to produce 100w, and I've got a sub rated to handle 150w. Let's say I turn the gain up to its maximum, turn on the bass boost on the amp, up the bass level on the input signal, and turn the volume up to its maximum. Now, the amp is running a clipped signal and is producing 200w worth of power.
Inevitably, the sub blows either through overexcursion (mechanical limits) or melting (thermal limits) or even a combination of the two. Most people blame it on distortion or "underpowering" not really understanding that their sub blew because it was being overpowered by the amp (200w being sent to a 150w sub).
If you had a sub that was rated to handle 200w, it would play the signal with no problems (provided you aren't maxing its mechanical limits). In most cases, it would sound like absolute crap, tho.
In this particular case of the Infinity sub and KW amp, it depends what voice coil config you've got.
If it's a 4ohm single voice coil (which is what I'm assuming), run it in bridged and turn the gains down. The amp is rated to produce 460w rms while the sub is rated to handle 250w rms. As for what each can "actually" do is a good question.
-Colin
"Underpowering" will never, ever, ever, ever, ever damage a speaker. Do your speakers suddenly blow when you turn down the volume? Of course not. Also, a speaker will just as happily play 100% distortion as a signal with 0% distortion.
There are two things which can kill a speaker:
(1) Exceeding the speaker's mechanical limits. For example, if you put a 20Hz signal into a tweeter you can pop it without much power at all (much less than its rms power rating). For subs, the enclosure type as a great deal to do with its mechanical limits. Given the same sub, smaller sealed boxes will be less prone to over-exursion than ported or infinite baffle setups.
(2) Exceeding the speaker's thermal limits. This is where you put too much power into a speaker and melt the voice coil or damage something else.
The real mystery that most people don't understand is clipping. When you clip an amp (set the gain too high and ask the amp to give all its got), it can actually produce twice its rms power.
For example, I've got an amp rated to produce 100w, and I've got a sub rated to handle 150w. Let's say I turn the gain up to its maximum, turn on the bass boost on the amp, up the bass level on the input signal, and turn the volume up to its maximum. Now, the amp is running a clipped signal and is producing 200w worth of power.
Inevitably, the sub blows either through overexcursion (mechanical limits) or melting (thermal limits) or even a combination of the two. Most people blame it on distortion or "underpowering" not really understanding that their sub blew because it was being overpowered by the amp (200w being sent to a 150w sub).
If you had a sub that was rated to handle 200w, it would play the signal with no problems (provided you aren't maxing its mechanical limits). In most cases, it would sound like absolute crap, tho.
In this particular case of the Infinity sub and KW amp, it depends what voice coil config you've got.
If it's a 4ohm single voice coil (which is what I'm assuming), run it in bridged and turn the gains down. The amp is rated to produce 460w rms while the sub is rated to handle 250w rms. As for what each can "actually" do is a good question.
-Colin
Whilst I agree, that the true problem is clipping...clipping distorts a signal. So technically...it *is* distortion. But that's one of those a square is just a special rectangle deals...it's all symantics. Basically you're asking too much from the speaker when you clip it. Even if you're underpowering it...because, if the signal is massively clipped, even if it's near what the peak power handling is due to clipping, then you start building up heat and putting excessive forces on the surround of the speaker. So...even underpowering and sending a clipped signal, can pop a speaker.cthomp21 said:Note: This post is directed at no-one. I'm just trying to help debunk one of the biggest car audio myths out there (besides my HU puts out 60x4).
"Underpowering" will never, ever, ever, ever, ever damage a speaker. Do your speakers suddenly blow when you turn down the volume? Of course not. Also, a speaker will just as happily play 100% distortion as a signal with 0% distortion.
There are two things which can kill a speaker:
(1) Exceeding the speaker's mechanical limits. For example, if you put a 20Hz signal into a tweeter you can pop it without much power at all (much less than its rms power rating). For subs, the enclosure type as a great deal to do with its mechanical limits. Given the same sub, smaller sealed boxes will be less prone to over-exursion than ported or infinite baffle setups.
(2) Exceeding the speaker's thermal limits. This is where you put too much power into a speaker and melt the voice coil or damage something else.
The real mystery that most people don't understand is clipping. When you clip an amp (set the gain too high and ask the amp to give all its got), it can actually produce twice its rms power.
For example, I've got an amp rated to produce 100w, and I've got a sub rated to handle 150w. Let's say I turn the gain up to its maximum, turn on the bass boost on the amp, up the bass level on the input signal, and turn the volume up to its maximum. Now, the amp is running a clipped signal and is producing 200w worth of power.
Inevitably, the sub blows either through overexcursion (mechanical limits) or melting (thermal limits) or even a combination of the two. Most people blame it on distortion or "underpowering" not really understanding that their sub blew because it was being overpowered by the amp (200w being sent to a 150w sub).
If you had a sub that was rated to handle 200w, it would play the signal with no problems (provided you aren't maxing its mechanical limits). In most cases, it would sound like absolute crap, tho.
In this particular case of the Infinity sub and KW amp, it depends what voice coil config you've got.
If it's a 4ohm single voice coil (which is what I'm assuming), run it in bridged and turn the gains down. The amp is rated to produce 460w rms while the sub is rated to handle 250w rms. As for what each can "actually" do is a good question.
-Colin
Here's a little info page I found: http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t20
Let's take a look at the article:
Alright, he's described clipping and has given an example how clipping can blow a speaker - Overpowering (Too much energy is flowing through the speaker's motor structure)
He's describing how a low powered amp can blow a speaker through clipping - Overpowering Remember, clipping makes an amp produce much more than its rated power.
As long as the power being put to the speaker is within its thermal limits and the frequencies which the speaker is producing are within its mechanical limits, the speaker won't fail. Even a "deadly square wave" being sent to a speaker alternates. It's not direct current. The failure he's describing is thermal failure which I mentioned in my previous post due to Overpowering .
What you're describing is also overpowering a speaker with a clipped signal causing thermal failure.
-C
Alright, he's described clipping and has given an example how clipping can blow a speaker - Overpowering (Too much energy is flowing through the speaker's motor structure)
He's describing how a low powered amp can blow a speaker through clipping - Overpowering Remember, clipping makes an amp produce much more than its rated power.
As long as the power being put to the speaker is within its thermal limits and the frequencies which the speaker is producing are within its mechanical limits, the speaker won't fail. Even a "deadly square wave" being sent to a speaker alternates. It's not direct current. The failure he's describing is thermal failure which I mentioned in my previous post due to Overpowering .
What you're describing is also overpowering a speaker with a clipped signal causing thermal failure.
-C
Ok...I'd quote that but this would all get muddled.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that overpowering is good with a clean undistorted signal. All too often, when you use an *underpowered* amp not matched to the speaker well, and push it to clipping to attempt to get the sound you want from it (thus overpowering the speaker) is when you blow the speaker.
Like I said...it's all symantics...we're getting to the same point, but describing it differently (causing confusion).
So...conclusion:
underpowering = ok...conditionally.*
overpowering w/ clean signal = ok
overpowering through clipping = bad
* = if you have a motor structure that wants power (BA pros) and don't give them enough power, then they still won't sound great.
We agreed on zeez points?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that overpowering is good with a clean undistorted signal. All too often, when you use an *underpowered* amp not matched to the speaker well, and push it to clipping to attempt to get the sound you want from it (thus overpowering the speaker) is when you blow the speaker.
Like I said...it's all symantics...we're getting to the same point, but describing it differently (causing confusion).
So...conclusion:
underpowering = ok...conditionally.*
overpowering w/ clean signal = ok
overpowering through clipping = bad
* = if you have a motor structure that wants power (BA pros) and don't give them enough power, then they still won't sound great.
We agreed on zeez points?
servoeyes said:Ok...I'd quote that but this would all get muddled.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that overpowering is good with a clean undistorted signal. All too often, when you use an *underpowered* amp not matched to the speaker well, and push it to clipping to attempt to get the sound you want from it (thus overpowering the speaker) is when you blow the speaker.
Like I said...it's all symantics...we're getting to the same point, but describing it differently (causing confusion).
So...conclusion:
underpowering = ok...conditionally.*
overpowering w/ clean signal = ok
overpowering through clipping = bad
* = if you have a motor structure that wants power (BA pros) and don't give them enough power, then they still won't sound great.
We agreed on zeez points?
I'd almost agree. Point #2 s/b - overpowering w/clean signal = bad (or boom!) (boom05)
Sending a speaker more power than its capable of handling, even if it has no clipping at all, will still damage the speaker.
I think it's really more of a perception. Most people don't understand that an amplifier can produce clipped signals which can be much higher than the amp's power rating. They blow a 150w sub with a 100w amp, so they think it blew due to the distortion that was playing through the sub when it blew. But, it was actually the amp sending the sub 200w when it could only handle 150w.
Not giving a speaker enough power may make it sound like poop, but it'll never damage it. (drive)
cthomp, its glad to see someone else that realises there is nothing soever wrong with people underpowering a speaker. when people tell me that i always ask them how much power they are running, they'll come back with like 500 watts. so i say go out to the car turn your stereo on so you can barely hear it so like your sub is now getting maybe 30 watts. and tell me how long before u blow it. lol. they never have a come back for that.
as for wich does the most damage it is sort of getting into semantics. i prefer to say its the clipping that causes the speaker to blow. one for the fact you tell a kid u just sent the speaker to much power and it couldn't handle it could easily be confusing for some people. as far as overpowering you can't just make a blanket statement that overpowering without a distorted or clipped signal is fine, because it really all comes down to the speaker and amp your dealing with. some quality speakers can be overpowered so to say. this is because they design the speaker to hold up to more power then what they rate it at. kind of like the same thing for amps where they will undderate their amps. but not cheaper manufacturers u problaby can't get away with this because they are more then likely quote their max at a point that will damage the speaker if u reach it, this all comes back to a lack of standards in the industry. this is all kind of like what caused the flat tire, was is the nail, or was it the hole that the nail put in the tire?
as for wich does the most damage it is sort of getting into semantics. i prefer to say its the clipping that causes the speaker to blow. one for the fact you tell a kid u just sent the speaker to much power and it couldn't handle it could easily be confusing for some people. as far as overpowering you can't just make a blanket statement that overpowering without a distorted or clipped signal is fine, because it really all comes down to the speaker and amp your dealing with. some quality speakers can be overpowered so to say. this is because they design the speaker to hold up to more power then what they rate it at. kind of like the same thing for amps where they will undderate their amps. but not cheaper manufacturers u problaby can't get away with this because they are more then likely quote their max at a point that will damage the speaker if u reach it, this all comes back to a lack of standards in the industry. this is all kind of like what caused the flat tire, was is the nail, or was it the hole that the nail put in the tire?
I wholly agree.
With overpowering I meant actual amounts (not what the manufacturer rates the components at). If you're sending an actual 673w to a sub that only handle an actual 502w, then thermal meltdown.
But, I see what you're getting at with the ratings. The lack of industry standards for rating components is probably the biggest thing wrong with car stereo today!
I mean come on! You see a Pyramid sub that has a 4mm Xmax with 1000w stamped on the cone?!?! Pure lunacy! (rofl)
With overpowering I meant actual amounts (not what the manufacturer rates the components at). If you're sending an actual 673w to a sub that only handle an actual 502w, then thermal meltdown.
But, I see what you're getting at with the ratings. The lack of industry standards for rating components is probably the biggest thing wrong with car stereo today!
I mean come on! You see a Pyramid sub that has a 4mm Xmax with 1000w stamped on the cone?!?! Pure lunacy! (rofl)
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