Question about FS-DE & FS-ZE Engine

[Victor1994]

I have a 2002 Mazda Protege5 and my engine is toast, low compression in cylinder 3 and oil passing though the piston rings. I was given a freakin lemon. Guy didn't tell me the radiator was leaking and patched it so I couldn't see it when inspecting before purchase, later resulting in overheating and a headache of problems all year.
Anyway, I tried looking for a used FS-DE engine and only come up with the FS-ZE version everywhere I go (Black box on intake manifold).
Is the FS-DE not available anymore or something? If I can't find it, I'm going for the FS-ZE. My only questions are, what is some info I need for the swap? I tried looking at other forums but there isn't any straight answers and details included. Just that the ZE has better internals and is the same as the DE. I know there's more to it, and that's why I'm asking.

 

[Victor1994]

Also, the car is an automatic.

 

[tweety2300]

You'd have to swap some stuff over from the USDm motor, a search will show you what. The biggest problem is that they really don't run right without the MP3 ecu and its for manual only.

Have you considered pulling the motor and rebuilding it? Depending on how much of the work you do yourself it's isually cheaper. And will last longer as well, most expensive part would be machine work

 

[Victor1994]

You'd have to swap some stuff over from the USDm motor, a search will show you what. The biggest problem is that they really don't run right without the MP3 ecu and its for manual only.

Have you considered pulling the motor and rebuilding it? Depending on how much of the work you do yourself it's isually cheaper. And will last longer as well, most expensive part would be machine work

I have thought about rebuilding the engine, but since the piston ring in Cylinder #3 and possible Cylinder #2 (It's starting to lose PSI as well but at 110 with the two healthy cylinders at 160psi) is damaged allowing oil to slip pass, I was thinking that maybe the rings have damaged the cylinder walls. I don't want to rebuild the engine and then find it to be completely worthless. I was told that the FS-ZE will run fine on the stock ecu, but won't have its full power without the Japanese ecu.

 

[JDM323J48]

I have thought about rebuilding the engine, but since the piston ring in Cylinder #3 and possible Cylinder #2 (It's starting to lose PSI as well but at 110 with the two healthy cylinders at 160psi) is damaged allowing oil to slip pass, I was thinking that maybe the rings have damaged the cylinder walls. I don't want to rebuild the engine and then find it to be completely worthless. I was told that the FS-ZE will run fine on the stock ecu, but won't have its full power without the Japanese ecu.

Correct, use your original crank pulley and ancillaries(sensors etc) and you're good to go, run a higher octane fuel if possible as the only difference on the bare engine is higher compression.

 

[Victor1994]

And by Bare Engine you're talking about the FS-ZE right? Sorry, I'm still getting to know my car better. I heard the ZE has better internals such as pistons, rods, etc. Btw what is the black resonance box on the manifold for? Sound cancelation?

 

[Victor1994]

And I always use 89 octane. I find that to be the best.

 

[JDM323J48]

And by Bare Engine you're talking about the FS-ZE right? Sorry, I'm still getting to know my car better. I heard the ZE has better internals such as pistons, rods, etc. Btw what is the black resonance box on the manifold for? Sound cancelation?

the engine without manifolds or sensors, pulleys etc, the black box is a vacuum resonance chamber which helps a bit, the fs-ze manifold also has a better butterfly setup.
Is 89 the highest octane fuel available there? I run 98 octane here and it's well suited.

 

[Victor1994]

The highest available is 93 here in Florida, I live in Jacksonville. Is 89 good enough for the car?

 

[Maroon]

Yes, 89 is fine.

Here is a Car-part.com search, there are plenty:

http://www.car-part.com/cgi-bin/sea...048802&userUID=0&userBroker=&userPage=1&iKey=

But now that I know how crappy these engines are, there's no way I would install a used one without essentially doing a rebuild to get to the piston rings and valve seals. And at that point, you could just rebuild your own.

 

[Protege5 Smoke]

I use 89 as well, probably the best cost/performance ratio for gas. The NA engine is actually listed (by the manufacturer) as using regular unleaded, which is 87 octane (US) gasoline, so that would work too. The turbo engine requires premium unleaded, which is 90 octane (US) or higher.

Edit: Just so everyone is on the same page, when I said the NA engine, I was referring to the US-spec fs-de

 

[tweety2300]

Do not use 87 in the fsze, it is higher compression and will lead to detonation and end up killing the motor. Run 91 or 93 whichever is available

You don't need the MP3 ecu but the tune on it is way better suited for the fsze, it is not a Japanese ecu a member here will flash your ecu for $150.

The only difference internally is the Pistons and cams. Still have same bad valve seals and oil pump

If you're looking for a little bit more performance get the fsze, if you just want it to run good rebuild it. If you want something fun look into the kl swap

 

[tweety2300]

A lot of the information in this post is wrong though

 

[tweety2300]

Also op didn't see your reason for not rebuilding it. But if you're worried about the cylinder walls being scored, you can easily do a .020 bore, which unless you're doing it on a budget is usually done anyways

But all bs aside most of the time you can get away with new piston rings and a re hone but I don't advise that

 

[JetSkiGuy]

I recently traded for an '02 P5 with auto like yours. Ours has a complete low mile JDM FS-ZE and transaxle swap. It was all done by the previous owner with some bugs left for me to work out. Ours is running the stock American sensors and ECU with JDM exhaust manifold and dual downpipe. We run 91-93 premium and the little thing runs great. I wish somebody could reflash the auto ecu with a nice tune but I have yet to find anything on it.

 

[wolfy53]

How do you know it's the piston rings? I know on mine I had a burnt exhaust valve and it needed valve stem oil seals. No scoring on my cylinders.


Have you looked into it more then just a compression test?

 

[Victor1994]

Do not use 87 in the fsze, it is higher compression and will lead to detonation and end up killing the motor. Run 91 or 93 whichever is available

You don't need the MP3 ecu but the tune on it is way better suited for the fsze, it is not a Japanese ecu a member here will flash your ecu for $150.

The only difference internally is the Pistons and cams. Still have same bad valve seals and oil pump

If you're looking for a little bit more performance get the fsze, if you just want it to run good rebuild it. If you want something fun look into the kl swap

If I was more advanced in my job getting paid per car, I'd definitely put a KL in that bad boy, along with a manual transmission. But sadly, that can't happen lol. I feel a lot better knowing more about the ZE so I might go for it since I need my car for work.

How do you know it's the piston rings? I know on mine I had a burnt exhaust valve and it needed valve stem oil seals. No scoring on my cylinders.


Have you looked into it more then just a compression test?

I honestly feel it's the piston rings because of the oil consumption I'm going through. Burns about a quart every 1000 miles. & also the fact that the engine overheated in march this year, blowing the head gasket which I replaced. Rings can easily be damaged with excessive heat. I maintained that engine until it gave out a few weeks ago. Now it won't start, and the battery is probably dead.

 

[tweety2300]

Quart every 1,000 miles is normal in a mazda. Even my 3 with 55k burns one every 1,500. Or did till it decided to start a leak

 

[Victor1994]

Quart every 1,000 miles is normal in a mazda. Even my 3 with 55k burns one every 1,500. Or did till it decided to start a leak

Really? Cause before this problem rose up, I was only losing a quarter of a quart between every oil change.

 

[Maroon]

Burning oil is typical for the engines in Proteges and 3's at least. Not acceptable and not something to disregard, but typical. It gets worse over time. There was a time when I burned less than 1 qt per 1,000 miles. It's more like 2-3 qts now. Although it leaks an undetermined amount too. Yeah, these are a real disaster of an engine.

You have 2 types of rings on your pistons: compression rings and oil control rings. Bad compression rings = low compression. Bad control rings = oil consumption. But it is possible to have only one type of ring bad and not the other. So it's not safe to assume that because you have both low compression and oil consumption that you have a ring problem.

So why aren't you just repairing your engine? I'm telling you, it would be a really poor decision to just swap in a used engine without replacing valve seals and piston rings. You'd end up right back where you started. One way or another you have to tear down an engine. Unless you just want to swap in an engine and offload the car right away (might be the wisest choice).

I could understand not wanting to rebuild your current engine if it had seized when it overheated or if it started knocking at some point. Then you'd have to get some machine work done and buying another engine to use as a core might be more cost effective and less risky.

But if you do decide on buying a new engine, did you see the link I posted with all the DE engines? If you're not going to turbo, why mess around with the ZE? Buy the direct swap and move on.