Piasini Engineering Info..

[8.5MS3]

am i reading this right

stock the car put down 260whp/275wtq?
and after the tune 295whp/340wtq...

something doesnt seem right. what kind of dyno was this done on? considering the car makes 263/280 at the crank im a bit suspicious.....

either way a 35whp/65wtq gain is respectable. how much was boost increased?

 

[coyfish]

Oh, I have no doubt that you put your finger on the problem. There have been some major screw ups regarding representation over here in the states. When I started with Piasini, I found all kinds of people who just spit when you mentioned the name. Lots of that stems from the fact the "rep" that first tried to sell these maps was not even a rep! That was a bad deal, pissed lots of folks off, and spit out clone remaps in a "one size fits all" dash for the cash

In fact, the euro ms3 has way stricter emissions than even CA. The German TUV is way harder than you might think. But you are correct, there is no way you can just toss a generic tune on a car an expect it to do as well as it could, or worst case, not explode! Thats way we tune everything on the dyno, here, in my shop. We have a great relationship with Piasini, and we tell them what we want, and thats what we get.

At any rate, I was serious about my offer. If ya want it done to show how good it is, let me know.

Meh I came looking to piasani with an open mind even though many people on these boards were very skeptical. After not being able to get responses from anyone for over a year to the shady way you conduct business . . . . it's just not a very good way to attract customers. Maybe you don't want more customers (cant imagine why) . . . Im not judging.

Then Christian Piasani comes on the boards and writes 3 posts in all the Piasani threads. 1 of the 3 doesn't even make any sense at all. All of them contain SEVERE grammar issues. Maybe hes not american. English isn't my first language either. But if I were looking to attract customers I would at least invest a few minutes to write a coherant sentence.

The tune looks great. But I am just baffled as to why Piasani can't make a reasonable thread with pictures and a full explanation of whats going on. Always seems like Piasani is beating around the bush.Most people aren't just going to throw their ECU's into the hands of anyone.

 

[coyfish]

Oh no that wasn't aimed at you at all. I used "you" meaning piasani in general. Sorry about that. Yes NYPEST was one of the guys I was trying to communicate with about a year ago. Just seems like he would never answer questions directly which got frustrating.

The people on this board that do have piasani seem to be happy with it. I have never seen anything negative related to the tune itself. Its just the lack of communication that frustrated me / many others.

Anyway glad to see piasani has someone willing to clear things up.

 

[shpankey]

jmac36. I'll take you up on your offer. Where do I sign up? Sending a pm...

 

[EwMPS]

A lot of us run the Piasini Flash along with a piggy back, Uni Q. Very happy with the tune.

 

[AllLostThings]

I've been curious about this tune. I'm looking to maybe do this or the Cobb AP sometime in the next few month. It's hard to find info on this and I'm not sure if the AP is the way to go with what I have for mods. I'm trying to look around a bit.

 

[EwMPS]

Believe it or not one of my Forum members imported the Cobb AP and it doesn't work on our ECU's. For some strange reason our ECU's differ from yours :-( our models are also downgraded from yours.. :-(

 

[EwMPS]

Copied this from my Forum, just wanted to share this. We are very fortunate that our Tuner went over to Italy to get trained in doing the Flash for our local race cars. There is no support I know of from them except for our tuner trained by them.

Flash.

- Allows full control of the TB, an additional 1000rpm before the TB starts to close.
- Boost limiter removed, can bump the boost right up without the ECU restricting.
- Steering Angle torgue limiter removed, no loss in torque from ECU intervention at various angles.
- The ECU still has its safety features fully intact.
T### tunes the Race MPS's as well as some of the Class A cars I think Audi. He worked in conjunction with Chrsitian from Piasini in Italy (ECU mods for Ferrari, Lambo etc) to unlock the MPS ECU as nobody could get it right... absolutely fntastic flash. The uni Q can't get nearly the full potential out of the ECU so hence the flash and then the Uni Q on tops of it to fine tune the curves.

 

[08cosmic3]

Buy a used AP for $500, keep it two years and sale it for $500. Buy the flash for ??? and it has zero resale if you want to take it off the car and sale it.

 

[Bravnik]

Again, the issue is that the ECU in the US is different from other countries. The Piasini flash is expensive for what it is. There is no data to backup the flashes that are done in the US. No car in the US that has the Piasini has major mods and data to backup any claim.

If Piasini wants to sell in the US they need to do some work, get some data, show some dyno's. I'm sure the flash will make an almost stock MS3 drive better. Hell any flash will do that. However, once you are fully bolted the issues arise.

There is simply no way any flash can work for every car. It simply can't happen and anyone with any common sense knows this. A flash is a STATIC change to your ECU. The flash can't adapt. The changes made to the ECU can't adapt. Sure you can make basic changes like full throttle control and raise the boost cut limit as well as the boost itself. That makes sense. However, you can't possibly compensate for mods without custom tuning. Again, a FLASH can't Learn.

 

[zx2man]

True, the piasini reflash is not for everyone. It is for those who are serious about performance without loss of drivablity. If you want a great tune, with TOTAL CONTROL over base maping, and you want to make the most TQ with a reflash, Piasini is the way to go.

Just carious what Kind of numbers are we talking about from the Piasini flash??????..pardon me I just stumbled in here..dont know the details..but im making 300 ponies and 322lb of torque with my Cobb AP..on a conservative daily driver map and my car's "drivability" is amazing..no complaints at all..very happy Cobb customer..I just would like to know whats the real advantage here??? Thank you for your time.

 

[zx2man]

298hp 300lb/ft on a load type dyno for a stock ms3 with the reflash

Im assuming thats bhp? not wheel.....pretty decent regardless..stock ms3 263 hp and 280 tq..so 37 hp and 20 tq gain from a reflash? for people wanting to look completly stock then thats a good direction.

 

[Bravnik]

So let me get this straight; you are saying that a remap cannot learn ie adjust for trims, is that correct? If so, could you explain to me how the factory pcm is able to do this, and a remap can't?

BTW, we have remaped several US market MS3s with both bolt ons and internal mods.

As far as expense, I would say that the dpt/piasiani reflash is very competitive with the AP. We tune with both, but prefer the Piasini for accurate tuning.

Look the AP is a good set up if you want to play with your car yourself. Its a safe setup and makes good numbers. Cobb has great marketing, and good customer service, and this is their market.

On the other hand, it really is a case of tomAto/tOmato. Both work just fine in the hands of a good tuner. Both work on the US cars, the Piasini works on the rest of the world, but I'm sure if Cobb wanted to they could fix that, no problem.

And to your question about data; pick someone, send them over, we will strap them down to the dynapack pull some data, dump and flash.

Jmac - In the US there are no tuners for the Piasini. We can't get a custom tune. I'm sure the product would work if we could but we can't. In the past Nypest sold a one size fits all flash which failed because there is simply no way one size can fit all. That's all I'm saying.

You put up an offer to send an ECU to you to flash. Again, what good is that if you can't do a custom tune for your car? You say you tune on a Dyno...great. But if someone with serious mods sent you their ECU the best you could do was to guess at a tune.

Piasini as a company I'm sure is great. But until they can provide shops in the US with the ability to do custom tunes then the US will never be in their market and a Piasini tune in the US is not a good idea unless you are very close to stock.

In the US we really have CPE, Cobb as major players. That's really it. Besides, the Piasini flash was almost as much as an AP. Dollar for Dollar I would rather have something that I can physically see and sell later on.

 

[Bravnik]

I understand what you are saying, however we do indeed do custom remaps using the Piasini software/hardware here in the US. We have been doing it for the past year or so with very good results. We never really went after the ms3 crowd because like you say, the cobb set up is very good for the average tuner.

We have several shops that we are working with who wish to become flashing dealers, however most of them are into the NA Mazda 3's, but can do all of the Mazda line, if they want to.

NYpest is a very sore subject with Piasini. I have had several conversations with Christian about that very topic. He is one of the reasons that the tuning is done the way it is now, to avoid the "onesize fits all" issue.

As far as guessing about a tune, no we do not tune by guess, nor do we tune generic files. We can tune your files based on the same dataloging that is used for AP e type tuning. The only real difference is that we do not allow raw bin files to float around the world, and raw file work is done by one computer.

Hope that clears up some of the mis information thats out there

Yes cleared it up real well. Thanks man. I wish you luck. I wouldn't mind seeing Piasini rise from the Nypest ashes.

 

[Huligan]

If anyone wants to try it, send me a box, I'll remap you for free just so everyone can check out the data and the dyno sheets......dyno

Hey jmac36, I will take you up on that offer... I sent you an email a couple of days ago. Let me know whats up.

 

[Huligan]

will you be around this weekend? I have an autox event in a few weeks and would like to see how the tune is

 

[Huligan]

Great. I'll give you a call tomorrow!

 

[starscream2k1]

Well I might as well chime in:

My MS3 PSI/Piasini Reflash Tune Impressions

Here were the stock numbers: 240whp/253wtq
Here are the reflashed numbers: 276whp/316wtq
As seen as a increase: 36whp/63wtq

There were all done on a Dynapack Dyno, and from what I know it reads lower then a Dynojet, but higher
then a Mustang dyno. Its more of a happy medium. I prefer it because 1) I dont waste tires on the dyno,
2) no slipping 3) no loading the suspension, strapping it down and having the wiggles and 4) its more
accurate in the sense that the reading it taken from the hub rather then transitioning from the tires. In
either case there are gains to be seen.

The dynos were taken with the hood up, and a few pulls were with the fan on however the blasted thing was
too loud and strong (never seen a dyno fan like that), it could blow Dorothy out of Kansas so we had it
off most of the time.

The only engine-type mod on the car is the CPe CBE, and the CPe RMM (if that counts). So a relatively
speaking stock MS3.

The car drives amazingly! The powerband has been shifted up a bit, which I personally prefer as the peak
torque isnt in the 3000rpm range anymore. Shes smoother all round, just driving the car feels well
balanced and smooth on the pedal. When I romp on it (WOT) shes a different beast, I can see the traction
control freaking out in the upper RPMS and when I take off the DSC its amazing what the car feels like
now. Theres power all over in the map sorta speak, and its much less jerky when I am driving compared to
before.

The torque/boost limiters are gone in 1st and 2nd gear, as is the steering input limiters. I can tell you
when taking a turn and throttling it, its fun, much more fun then before with the car bogging or feeling
like your hitting a wall on power.

Boost has been increased to 18psi so about a 3psi increase, however the car ****en rips. Plain and simple
I need better tires now LOL. Driving the car around the city and on highways I feel comfortable in
every gear to press the gas a bit to get going, and if I need more power I downshift and WOT it. Power is
on instantly and boost rampup is nice. The throttle control on the car is much more responsive.
All in all, I am happy with the flash and it was totally worth it. I have been monitoring with my
dashhawk to see if theres any changes or worries to be watched (namely watching KR) and there has not
been. If I had known about this earlier, I woulda done the flash sooner/earlier. I would recommend the
flash and PSI Tuning to anyone. However it is important to note that this flash changes the stock ECU,
but the beauty is that the ECU will still learn and increase if you do mods, meaning that it reacts like
the stock ECU but better. BUT note that IS IT NOT for a BIG Turbo setup or for someone doing everything
under the sun. I am more of a set-it-and-forget-it type of person and I dont want to have the hassle of
separate tunes, or retuning constantly and more to point I would rather trust a tuner who has tuned
hundreds of cars and as well as a dozen MS3s then myself as I am no expert in tuning even though I grasp
what needs to be done. The ECU kept learning as the dyno pulls went on, each pull gave us an increase to
the point where we were getting consistent numbers.

I had gone recently to Quys for the informal MS3 meeting, and some of the members there were with me and I took them for a spin. I am sure they can vouch for how the car drives and reacts.

The dynos printer wasnt working so he took a screenshot for us and emailed it. I am still waiting for the
before and after on 1 graph shot, however I can give you the Final Dyno screenshot in the meantime

Dyno Video (before and after):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RfZqGDyvWA

Note: From what I understand the dyno calculates hub tq a different way and then you switch it to actual
wheel registered tq then the numbers make sense (you'll see 11xx wtq then the proper number) and as well
the bottom number is changed once the system processes the number after the pull. Incase you were
wondering why the number shows up after.

Dyno Screenshot

 

[starscream2k1]

Star, man I'm glad your happy with it! I assume this is the car my buddy Michael was tuning this last week?

Great numbers, looks good!

Yeppers! This was the one he was tuning

I keep hearing about these people that have the Piasini tune and have Zoom Zoom Boomed...who are they?! LOL I keep trying to go out and find them seems like when I do, they arent there.

 

[Sergius64]

I gotta say, that looks like a very safe torque curve:

155 lb-ft @ 2500 rpms
165 lb-ft @ 2750 rpms
210 lb-ft @ 3000 rpms
245 lb-ft @ 3500 rpms
315 lb-ft @ 4450 rpms

I'ld love to see that kinda stuff reproduced with AP or Standback.