P5 NA Build - Target 175whp

LordWorm said:
Youll be right - if the shop knows what they are doing they'll get her started, get a good tune on it, break it in on the dyno and you should be ready to go.

We all want numbers, and sound bites, and videos etc etc ;)
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you guys will get your video and numbers ;) ill make sure your sick of seeing and hearing about the car.


as for a good tune the MT isnt installed yet so initially i will only have the mp3 ecu to keep this baby in control. I have to get some body work done right away before i start ripping the wiring harness apart, and wont be getting to a dyno for another couple months.
 
jimmysuite said:
you guys will get your video and numbers ;) ill make sure your sick of seeing and hearing about the car.


as for a good tune the MT isnt installed yet so initially i will only have the mp3 ecu to keep this baby in control. I have to get some body work done right away before i start ripping the wiring harness apart, and wont be getting to a dyno for another couple months.
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if you've got the microtech waiting to go, it'd be a VERY good idea to put that in before your body work dude.

Engine/tune = more important than cosmetics, especially considering the amount of cash you've dropped into the thing.

Remember, twiggy cams + insane mods will probably push a stock ECU to the point of not having a clue about what to do, and you could end up with some rather undesirable results.......

Having spent all this time and money on the motor so far, i'd def. advise that you go all the way on stand alone before you start driving on it......
 
LordWorm said:
if you've got the microtech waiting to go, it'd be a VERY good idea to put that in before your body work dude.

Engine/tune = more important than cosmetics, especially considering the amount of cash you've dropped into the thing.

Remember, twiggy cams + insane mods will probably push a stock ECU to the point of not having a clue about what to do, and you could end up with some rather undesirable results.......

Having spent all this time and money on the motor so far, i'd def. advise that you go all the way on stand alone before you start driving on it......
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Got the car back today!

It started up first crank and as the engine warmed up the idle slowly dropped. Once it got below 1000rpm it started to lope. At the first couple stop signs the ecu couldnt handle the transitions from an open to closed throttle and it stalled about 4 times. But by the time i got home the ecu had learned to handle the transition and the car idles with a nice steady lope when coming to a stop. I spent the 20 mile drive home on back road varying the idle the whole way. During one acceleration I gave it about half to three quarters throttle. The car sounded very strong and pulled well. The car doesnt feel sluggish at low rpms so im guessing i didnt totally kill my low end torque. I'm not going to make any more butt dyno speculations right now, we will see what the dyno has to say.

I agree totally that the stock ecu is not ideal, but it seems to be handling the changes nicely.

I am still debating weather to install the MT, wideband, and guages in the next few weeks or to wait until the car is done. Once I post a video clip (which will hopefully be soon.... or should i make you guys sweat it out a little ;))hopefully you guys will get a little better picture.

Overall, the car sounds awesome (like a stock car) and I am happy with the results. Its only going to get better from here!

I will be busy making calls tomorrow and make the final decision which route to go first.
 
i think it is very benifical to install the wideband asap! the car is doing things completly differently compared to stock, you want to make sure you not running lean anywhere for a long period of time or your engine is in trouble.

NA cars do have slack for running lean but not too much slack.
 
Name one good reason NOT to install the wideband gauge ASAP? You're foolish for even considering waiting.
 
Thanks for the input guys, I know that stuff needs to get installed very soon. Engine management should have been the first mod.
 
Good to know the car is running and going strong....


get the wideband in, etc...body work can wait (and smashing kiddies when your car looks shocking is extra fun)....



=)
 
^^^i can get the wideband installed in an evening... at least then ill know if i can limp on the stocko ecu until i get time to do a full MT install, but I want to get both done soon


You're right... poeple look at my car and are like piece of sh......whoa... wasn't expecting that!
 
Tom03es said:
Name one good reason NOT to install the wideband gauge ASAP? You're foolish for even considering waiting.
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Wideband is in! Only 72 hours of being foolish, thats pretty good for me! Just got back from taking her out for a little spin.....

at idle gauge reads mid 14s to low 15s (once in a great while i saw a 16.0)
while crusing under low loads got readings of 14 to mid 15s
at half to 3/4 throttle i would see 13-15 while on the gas and dropping down to 11-12 range for a split second, once i took my foot off.
during deceleration it would read 22.4

thats it for now, let me know what you guys think. Install took me about 4 hours but i took my time.


Oh, check engine light came on during idle warm up, No difference in how car ran tonight, im going to get it scanned tomorrow. (still have both stock O2 sensors hooked up and in the exahust at the same locations so i dont think its that, my hunch is it has something to do with the vtcs or vics vacuum but well see)
 
CEL could be a multitude of things, but think about it, your engine is nothing like the engine the stock ecu is used to seeing.

You've probably got some ping due to higher compression and not enough ability to compensate. You're running huge camshafts (stock ecu guys in the states have reported multi-missfire codes and so forth). You're probably dumping a buttload more fuel in and the stock ecu thinks something is wrong...
the list goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on etc adinfinitum, adnuasium..

Solution to all of these problems is, (and at the risk of sounding like a broken record), installing the microtech. . .
 
after 12 pages of reading..

1. if you think the rods are a problem at 7500RPM ~175-180WHP you do not know what you are talking about. 175WHP is a "MILDLY" modified msp. Intake and exhaust. Now considering many people with turbo pushing 200-260WHP on the stock rods, to 7500RPM daily bouncing the needle off the limiter for fun you should realize that unless you are changing the length of the rod to gain more power there is absolutely no point in you upgrading them with an n/a build. Seriously, I am at 7500RPM daily running 10+psi of boost, you think you are gonna bend a rod with n/a ? I sure dont.

2. I would not be too worried about valve float if you are staying at 7500rpm or lower. If you were thinking 8K redline then maybe. Who told you the stock valve springs needed to be replaced? Its not a bad thing that you did, but I would like to see where they got their data from. Sounds like a quick sale to me. Im there everyday and I have no issues whatsoever. Maybe the cams you added necessitated the springs, you didnt really specify.

3. IMO You are going at this the hard way. Convert the car to E85 (very simple to do) and run shitloads of timing and even higher compression. Keep your 10.4:1 pistons and shave your head to get to the 10.7 you originally wanted or higher. E85 is like sex, you will like it.

4. The biggest problem with the fsde is the oil system. This is the cause of the majority of blown engines. Check out DocBs forum and oil threads for more info.
 
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do you plan on getting the car on a dyno? I am very interested to see numbers. Seems like a great build
 
jeffmsp said:
1. if you think the rods are a problem at 7500RPM ~175-180WHP you do not know what you are talking about. 175WHP is a "MILDLY" modified msp. Intake and exhaust. Now considering many people with turbo pushing 200-260WHP on the stock rods, to 7500RPM daily bouncing the needle off the limiter for fun you should realize that unless you are changing the length of the rod to gain more power there is absolutely no point in you upgrading them with an n/a build. Seriously, I am at 7500RPM daily running 10+psi of boost, you think you are gonna bend a rod with n/a ? I sure dont.
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hmmm....i look forward to the story of you killing a rod any time soon. yes the stock rods can handle a fair bit of power at 6500rpm, but the forces on a rod at 7500rpm NA making 175hp are FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR greater than 6500rpm FI making 300hp

rods and NA are a lot different to rods and FI
 
jeffmsp said:
do you plan on getting the car on a dyno? I am very interested to see numbers. Seems like a great build
Click to expand...

yes, just trying to decide when and where.

Yep, RANDOM misfire code P0300 and got a 2nd o2 sensor code P0140 not working. since i didnt touch it, im wondering if the exhaust shop did something to it.....

If my afr's are good and im just running around on a multi mis-fire (i know its not ideal and i am planning on getting the MT installed very soon,) that is nothing thats gonna kill my engine? I'm guessing the multi misfire is idle related.
 
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hmmm....i look forward to the story of you killing a rod any time soon. yes the stock rods can handle a fair bit of power at 6500rpm, but the forces on a rod at 7500rpm NA making 175hp are FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR greater than 6500rpm FI making 300hp

rods and NA are a lot different to rods and FI
Click to expand...

first engine lasted 100,000kms seeing 14-10psi. Then a rod bearing deteriorated from oil starvation and things went downhill from there. I am still convinced that if I had a aftermarket oil pan it never would have happend, but still I probobly put more stress on the rods in 100,000km of driving then a n/a car would in its lifetime.

New engine hardly sees over 10psi as I am having a hard time getting my homemade controller working again. On a good night 12+psi pulls hard but the car is still running too rich over 10psi so I have some bugs to work out.

i'd be worried about the stock ecu leaning you out and deto.
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I thought he had a microtech?
 
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