Oil Burning Plea

[Eugeosyncline]

Hey folks!

I'm in the process of looking for a used car and have come across a 1990 Geo Prizm GSI, which is inexpensive (that's why I'm considering it).

The GSI's of that time came equipped with Toyota's 4A-GE (130 HP) engines, the A series being quite an excellent and reliable line.

Maintenance on this car appears to have been excellent, with new brakes, clutch, emissions, etc.. The engine has also been well cared for, overall.

That said, it IS a high milage car at 107,000. As such, the engine uses some oil; apparently about a quart every interval of 3000 miles (which is being burnt-- There are apparently NO leaks from the engine itself). The current owner has kept his eye on it and made sure the level never dropped too low, and I believe he's being totally honest about that. Except at immediate startup, he says the exhaust isn't smokey. I expect the startup smoke has to do with somewhat worn piston rings(?).

I need a temporary car to get me by for about a year until I save up enough for a brand new one, and wanted to ask all of your thoughts on whether you think it sounds like a car like described above might serve its purpose for that long. It wouldn't get used a lot, as I walk to work everyday-- It would mainly get used for errands around town, and probably several extended road trips totalling maybe 4000 miles this coming summer.

Might I ask your experiences, and whether you think it sounds like this Geo might work out okay?

Thanks very much for your help, guys. I've run a clean CarFax on this vehicle, which looks excellent, and it indeed does sound like the car has been well cared for. I just haven't any experience with cars that use oil (yet), and wanted to learn more about what your experiences have been (good or bad). I just need a car that I can trust and am a little concerned about that oil issue...

Cheers!

 

[Gbourdon]

I'm no mechanic but I would say valve guides? Dunno?

 

[Mazdaspeedgirl]

It should be okay for a year. (dunno) It's just that you have to beware a car that apparently hasn't been well cared for. The engine *shouldn't* be using oil already, but you never know why. That brings up the questions of what else has been neglected? Timing belt? brake bleeding? ect...

But it should be okay for a year.

 

[norman]

Typically oil smoke on startup is the valve seals. There are rubber mushroom like rings that sit on the valve stem to prevent oil from flowing into the combustion chamber when the engine is shut off. These crack over time and let the oil pass by. And by the way, 107,000 is a lot of miles but look at the age of the car, 14 years old averages to 7643 miles per year...still way under average. My brother had a prizm and his flex pipe broke twice. They are not cheap to replace, I believe about 175 and are available only at GM dealers. This was about 5 or so years ago. This was about the only problem he had with the car as I can recall.

 

[norman]

Diane has a good point, ask about the timing belt. This should be the first thing you replace if it has not yet been done. If it breaks, can you say bent valves and an expensive head repair...I knew you could.

This leak could be where the oil usage is. The milage seems to indicate city driving which will wear all parts faster. After 14 years I would expect to see these seals failing and need replaced, especially if it was city driving or even if the car sat for years. You can try a product called restore, I have heard that it really helps with oil usage on old engines.

 

[Eugeosyncline]

Thanks for your comments thus far, all!

The timing belt and a host of other maintenance, including valve adjustment, was done last year, so that shouldn't be a concern. That said, I'm pretty sure the 4A-GE is a non-interference design anyway, so a lost timing belt shouldn't be met with catastrophic engine damage, even if it was to fail (as in, valves/piston heads should not be damaged).

I've heard of the early 90's Toyota Tercel having common issues with valve stem seals needing replacement, and wonder if by chance it's similar with this Corolla (Prizm) engine-- You might be right, Norman!

Okay, so if it was valve seals, anyone have any thoughts as to how long a car can go with this kind of problem before total failure (if you make sure to watch your engine oil level and keep it at normal)? As said, I just need a little over a year with it.

Except for the engine using oil, the cooling system, transmission (clutch was replaced last year, according to the current owner), tires, exhaust, CV joints, are all good.

As said, it's just that oil burning issue that I'm worried about (unless I find other issues when I look at the car in person tomorrow morning).

Although I haven't done something like it before, I am mechanically literate, and wonder if a valve seal is something you can do yourself with a good manual. ???

Thanks again for your help, guys-- I need a car soon and hope to learn as much as I can before making a decision.

 

[Gbourdon]

I drove an 88 astro van with completely shot valve seals for a while. A long while. I just carried a case of Wal-Mart Brand 20W50 and kept pumping it in there. My cats were hatin life but that thing ran strong until I gave it away. Eventually I got some knock on one of the cylinders I think one of the lifters was compressed or something. Whatever I made it through college with it driving some long distances. 3 quarts per tank of gas (shocked) I went through a whole case in 1000 miles going to canada and back.

 

[jersey_emt]

I drove an 88 astro van with completely shot valve seals for a while. A long while. I just carried a case of Wal-Mart Brand 20W50 and kept pumping it in there. My cats were hatin life but that thing ran strong until I gave it away. Eventually I got some knock on one of the cylinders I think one of the lifters was compressed or something. Whatever I made it through college with it driving some long distances. 3 quarts per tank of gas (shocked) I went through a whole case in 1000 miles going to canada and back.

Christ man....that's ridiculous!

 

[Gbourdon]

The only reason it died is because the guy I gave it to ran it out of oil and seized. Lesson being If your car burns oil just check it often and ALWAYS keep some in the car in case it gets dangerously low.

 

[norman]

Speaking from and american V8 standpoint, valve seals are not that difficult to replace. Doing it with the head on you need to raise the piston to top dead center on the compression stroke. You can either pressureize the cylender with compressed air or hild the valve up with a tool...bent coathanger works. Holding the valve up, remove the valve retainer, valve spring then the valve seal. Replace the seal and reassemble in reverse. Move to the next valve and repeat. There is more to it than that but that is the basic principle. OHV engines are a bit more complex having to remove the timing belt and cam(s), some may require special tools to remove them. You should be able to rent these tools if needed.

 

[Eugeosyncline]

Valve Stem Seals

Yeah, some time ago I was reading a good write-up of some fellow's experience replacing the valve stem seals on his Toyota Tercel (3E-E engine). It sounded doable, but still pretty involved (you have to remove timing belt, head, cams, etc.). I fully expect the 4A-GE requirements to be similar.

Given that I've never done anything like that before I'd of course rather not, but if the Geo otherwise looks good and I went for it, it might be that that job needed to get done before I had the ability to buy my new car. The more I research the issue the more it looks like that's the nature of this Prizm's oil burning problem-- The valve stem seals. And that means the spark plugs are probably getting pretty fouled up with oil and crap.

I swear, dammit, it's impossible to find a car in the mid $2k range that doesn't have problems. Every single car I've looked at has had an oil leak of some kind; some worse than others, but all had them. Then I finally find one without an oil leak, but it's burning oil instead.

What a pisser.

 

[hi-perf]

get a domestic instead

the chrysler v6's arent that bad, and can be had relatively cheap.

just dont get a 4 speed automatic and you will be good.

 

[charles]

I'm sure it'll be fine as a "beater." It'll probably run forever anyway.