twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
tiwing you are correct.
and reducing the glazing increase pad bite.
and reducing the glazing increase pad bite.
Note: Cross-drilling nor slotting provide any benefits
- Thread starter charles
- Start date
7
70
jared said:i got pics too...
Corvette C5R = no slots or drilled holes. This car has won LeMans.
On a street car, crossdrilled or slotted rotors will not benifit you.
Just a stickler for detail here, the C5R won it's class at Le Mans, not the whole dang sha-bang. And last year it got beat out by a Ferrari.
Back your your regularly scheduled arguement...
7
70
I'm reading that thread on the Nissan forum.
It's pretty funny.
Anyhoot, just to show what they are talking about, go look at what Delsing is doing for his big brake kit...Anyone see holes or slots.
Nope. I wonder why that is? Probably because the point is, mass absorbs the heat, surface area releases to the atmosphere.
Larger brakes equals better braking. Holy brakes does not necessarily mean better braking.
Oh well.
It's pretty funny.
Anyhoot, just to show what they are talking about, go look at what Delsing is doing for his big brake kit...Anyone see holes or slots.
Nope. I wonder why that is? Probably because the point is, mass absorbs the heat, surface area releases to the atmosphere.
Larger brakes equals better braking. Holy brakes does not necessarily mean better braking.
Oh well.
p5sundevil
Member
- :
- 03.5 MidnightBlue p5
this thread is some funny ass shiat.
Cross Drilled: Offer an enhanced initial bite (more responsive, especially in wet weather) and greater heat dissipation (reduction in heat induced fade - "brake fade")as compared to O.E.M. With 40% Better Cooling, 20% better stopping, improved wet braking, reduces rotor warpage, and less brake fade.
Gas Slotted: Slotted discs offer cleaning of the friction material (brake pads), but do little in terms of additional heat dissipation. Slotted brake discs do not cool better than cross drilled discs or even standard discs. The face grooves will slice the brake pad material allowing the pad to bite harder into the disc, therefore causing an increase in disc temperatures. This is recommended for competition vehicles to bring pads and disc temperatures up to optimal operating ranges. (Race cars warm-up engines, tires and brakes for the best possible performance).
www.corksport.com
Cross Drilled: Offer an enhanced initial bite (more responsive, especially in wet weather) and greater heat dissipation (reduction in heat induced fade - "brake fade")as compared to O.E.M. With 40% Better Cooling, 20% better stopping, improved wet braking, reduces rotor warpage, and less brake fade.
Gas Slotted: Slotted discs offer cleaning of the friction material (brake pads), but do little in terms of additional heat dissipation. Slotted brake discs do not cool better than cross drilled discs or even standard discs. The face grooves will slice the brake pad material allowing the pad to bite harder into the disc, therefore causing an increase in disc temperatures. This is recommended for competition vehicles to bring pads and disc temperatures up to optimal operating ranges. (Race cars warm-up engines, tires and brakes for the best possible performance).
www.corksport.com
That link is just some guy expressing his opinion on another forum. I didn't notice any scientific comparison testing and data results. That's the trap of the Internet, if it's in text anywhere people take it as gospel and the author as an expert.
Gassing must still be an issue if it's still mentioned by brake technology companies. Granted the drive to work can't overheat stock pads, but a few hot laps at the track (or on the street if you're foolish enough) and brake fade will greatly increase your heart rate. I've seen plenty of drilled rotors on real race cars, although race teams have been moving to slotted due to less breakage. Or not, depending on sponsorship. But yes, there are plenty of blanks in use too, which makes for a larger heatsink which can be useful. Ultimately it may be vehicle dependent (heavy, light) and varies with types of races (1 lap, 30 laps, 24 hour, oval, dirt, road course). Probably no difference at all on street use except for looks. Personally I this year I'll autox with stock rotors with Hawk HPS pads. Next year I'll try slotted. Who knows? Until Car & Driver or other independent source does an actual test we probably won't know. But racers use what lets them win so that's my measurement. Your mileage may vary.
Gassing must still be an issue if it's still mentioned by brake technology companies. Granted the drive to work can't overheat stock pads, but a few hot laps at the track (or on the street if you're foolish enough) and brake fade will greatly increase your heart rate. I've seen plenty of drilled rotors on real race cars, although race teams have been moving to slotted due to less breakage. Or not, depending on sponsorship. But yes, there are plenty of blanks in use too, which makes for a larger heatsink which can be useful. Ultimately it may be vehicle dependent (heavy, light) and varies with types of races (1 lap, 30 laps, 24 hour, oval, dirt, road course). Probably no difference at all on street use except for looks. Personally I this year I'll autox with stock rotors with Hawk HPS pads. Next year I'll try slotted. Who knows? Until Car & Driver or other independent source does an actual test we probably won't know. But racers use what lets them win so that's my measurement. Your mileage may vary.
I would say that for our cars just the plain rotor is fine as long as a good pad is thrown into the mix. The reason you see race cars use the cross drilling is because those are most often run at very high temps and often composed of carbon. If you look at their properties you could say that Carbon has a tendency to lose heat faster than a metalic rotor which is known as Heat Capacity. In other words a rotor composed of carbon will benefit more from a cross drill design than a metallic rotor. So, since we don't run such high temps and utilize a metallic rotor it would be more cost effective for us to just use a nice pad with the correct optimal running temperature for the conditions than having to spend up to 300.00 on a set of rotors whose differential effectiveness to that of the oem rotor is negligable. Follow me?
i believe that better braking is gained from slotted/drilled brakes because it allows for more gripping action when the pads are pressed. it's like a cheese grater (just rips the s*** out of the cheese, but definitely has more friction than sliding a solid surface across the cheese)
To everyone who was giving Charles s***: We're supposed to ******* care.. that's why this forum exists, and thats why theres a ******* performance section.. if you don't ******* care, then why are you reading this.. hell, why are you on the forum itself? You know where people who don't care are? They're not registered on this forum... And obviously if you cared enough to click, read, and post on this thread, than you do care.
Anyways, my take on the whole rotor thing is that I'm sure each type of rotor has its pros / cons, and depending on which application you are going to use the brakes for, a certain rotor will fit that application better than a different styled rotor. I think what Charles was trying to say, and what I agree with, is that if you're driving a car regularly on the street, or racing moderately, than cross drilled / slotted rotors aren't really necessary. If you are making a full-out race car, then yeah, go for it. The point is, realistically, changing a rotor does not have too much of an impact, but if you can feel the difference, and somehow the rotors improve your track times, than nobody can say anthing about that.
Anyways, my take on the whole rotor thing is that I'm sure each type of rotor has its pros / cons, and depending on which application you are going to use the brakes for, a certain rotor will fit that application better than a different styled rotor. I think what Charles was trying to say, and what I agree with, is that if you're driving a car regularly on the street, or racing moderately, than cross drilled / slotted rotors aren't really necessary. If you are making a full-out race car, then yeah, go for it. The point is, realistically, changing a rotor does not have too much of an impact, but if you can feel the difference, and somehow the rotors improve your track times, than nobody can say anthing about that.
7
70
If you read the whole thread you would see the sales guy was giving an opinion and passing it as fact based on sale information brochures.SciFiMan said:
"Cobra" and a few tohers presetned true technical arguements that refuted the sales guys claim, and the sales guy went beserk.
I got to about page 20 last night. With in the first five pages you get the jist of the arguements and can see the misunderstanding. Up around page 18 there is some more good tech to read concerning why porsche uses cross-drilled rotors.
7
70
Sales BS...p5sundevil said:
Can you tell me how removing material from a rotor helps it cool better?
You have less mass to soak up that heat between the pad and the rotor material. The prepoderance of tech behind braking systems says other wise on the cross-driller rotors statement.
The slotted rotor comment is way off...
Corksport is not a brake manufacturer, and their comments are wrong. Look at Baer, Wilwood, etc. concerning cross-drilled and slotted rotors.
Go read that thread that was linked and read the actual tech behind slotted and cross-drilled rotors...
For the Protege, a good set of tires and a decent set of pads on OEM rotors will do more for braking performacne than cross-drilled and slotted rotors for auto-crossing and the occasional track day.
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
just with the x-drilled they do cool better...more surface area is open to air.
think of a tube. the area of the cylinder parts is greater than the lids
think of a tube. the area of the cylinder parts is greater than the lids
7
70
But there is less mass to absorb the heat in the first place, which means more heat is transferred to the pad and other parts of the braking system.twilightprotege said:
Yes, the might be more surface arear because of the holes, but the corss-drilled rotor (OEM size) itself cannot handle as much heat as a stock rotor. Hence why cracking and other issues occur. Those issues can lead to catastrophic brake failure.
Will those temps been seen in your normal day-today driving? Most likely not. Do you have to worry as much about cross-drilled rotors for normal street driving? Probably not.
But for racing use, cross-drilled is not used. Slotted are used primarily in rally to help keep debris off the pad. Slotted in road racing tends to fill up the slots with pad material effectively making slotted rotor useless.
Once again, I refer you to Delsing Motorsports big brake kit for the Protege and the lack of holes or slots, and the fact that he toutes the thickness and size of the rotor, not slots or holes...
Why do people think that better cooling helps you stop faster. Friction is what causes a car to stop. Heat is just a product that must be dumped somewhere. As long as the friction is there, the car will stop, it doesn't matter hot the surfaces are. (unless it gets too hot to remain a solid) Alot of people have been saying that unslotted/x-drilled breaks are better just because they can contain more heat and that is not true.
Personally, I don't see a reason for x-drilled rotors beyond extremely high temp conditions. But that is solely to prevent the rotors from warping due to heat. But I do see how slotting could help.
Personally, I don't see a reason for x-drilled rotors beyond extremely high temp conditions. But that is solely to prevent the rotors from warping due to heat. But I do see how slotting could help.
7
70
^^^
If keeping brakes cool isn't important, why does every race car use brake ducting to throw cold air on the rotors??
Keeping the brakes system in a specified heat range allows for the most friciton to be created between the brake pad and the rotor. That torque is then transferred to the tires.
Overheated brakes are very bad. Pads glaze, brake fluid boils, etc causing fade. Fade is bad news...
If keeping brakes cool isn't important, why does every race car use brake ducting to throw cold air on the rotors??
Keeping the brakes system in a specified heat range allows for the most friciton to be created between the brake pad and the rotor. That torque is then transferred to the tires.
Overheated brakes are very bad. Pads glaze, brake fluid boils, etc causing fade. Fade is bad news...
people... stop arguing... YES, non slotted/drilled rotors will make you stop better (more friction) but this is only for a little while in racing applications. after a few laps the brakes will start to fade if not supercooled and pads cleaned (via slots)
now, that being said... after a lot of hard braking, slotted rotors and cross drilled rotors WILL stop your car better because the reduce BRAKE FADE. but you would truely never encounter brake fade on the street unless your brakes are ******.
are slots/holes important on a street car? NO! but it does look cool.... end of story
*edit* also the stock protege brakes are quite good, and will out perform your tires almost every time.... if you actually want to stop faster, get R compound tires
now, that being said... after a lot of hard braking, slotted rotors and cross drilled rotors WILL stop your car better because the reduce BRAKE FADE. but you would truely never encounter brake fade on the street unless your brakes are ******.
are slots/holes important on a street car? NO! but it does look cool.... end of story
*edit* also the stock protege brakes are quite good, and will out perform your tires almost every time.... if you actually want to stop faster, get R compound tires
Last edited:
7
70
Stock sized slotted or cross drilled rotor will not out preform stock OEM rotors.RyanJayG said:
The rotor material is not "stickier" on slotted or cross-drilled rotors, how is there more friction?
This where the arguement degraded into name calling in the other thread. there is no empircal evidence proving that cross-drilled/slotted rotors are in fact better than OEM parts.
7
70
Oh sorry...yes I did misread you...(hand) (hand)RyanJayG said:
