New STF SCCA Class Thread
- Thread starter Andres3165
- Start date
Andy Hollis
Member
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- 2012 Mazda 2 Sport
Actually, the 2 is nothing like a Civic. The latter is double a-arm while the 2 is strut front, twist-beam rear. In fact, the 2 is a LOT like an early A1-chassis VW Rabbit. Motion ratio on the Civic is close to .6 while it is near 1 on the 2. So the 2 will get softer spring rates to achieve the same wheel rates.
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- 2012 Touring MT
I did think about that to, so what would be the F/R spring rate difference? How much stiffer on the front than the rear? Sway bars necessary?
We definitely need camber plates on the front and rear if possible to. I killed my front tires yesterday even though I have like 2 degrees negative camber (camber bolts).
Thanks
Andres
Andy Hollis
Member
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- 2012 Mazda 2 Sport
Haven't decided on initial spring rates, yet. The Bilstein kit is 275/230, which nets out to somewhere in the 2.0/2.5 hz ride frequency range. So that's in the ballpark. Some rear bar will likely also be necessary and I'm going to try and build something adjustable, or maybe make the OE front bar adjustable with an extra hole or two. We'll see.
Camber plates for the front will be useful, but the existing center hole is not large. So it would have to be an "under-the-hole" design like the BMW E46 M-series.
Rear camber is a challenge since it is a twist beam. Not many good options there.
I'm really spending most of my time right now on my track car (see link in sig), though. I won't get serious about the 2 for a couple of months.
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- 2012 Touring MT
Thanks so much
Andres
Andres
zoomerang2
Member
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- 2012 Madza2 Touring
Wow, this is great information. The real reason I decided to buy the 2 was to get back into the Auto-X world again this season. I am really happy to hear about the STF class since it sound like a good place to have fun and still stay somewhat competitive with a correctly modified car.
In the past I have run in STX in my DSM, I still love the car but I have since modified it beyond its (or my) ability to be very competitive in the SCCA so, it will become the Road Course car...
I am glad to see all of the suspension discussion since I am still watching for suspension options. My car will stay a daily driver but I will put up with quite a bit of discomfort for good results! Firm, Stiff, bouncy... anything but noisy!
In the past I have run in STX in my DSM, I still love the car but I have since modified it beyond its (or my) ability to be very competitive in the SCCA so, it will become the Road Course car...
I am glad to see all of the suspension discussion since I am still watching for suspension options. My car will stay a daily driver but I will put up with quite a bit of discomfort for good results! Firm, Stiff, bouncy... anything but noisy!
Andy Hollis
Member
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- 2012 Mazda 2 Sport
I spoke with Craig Nagler at Tri-Point Engineering this week and found out some interesting info that might be useful for STF 2's. They are doing some final shake-down testing and development on the B-Spec road racing 2 that Mazda Motorsports has built.
Of note is the rear sway bar that Craig designed, which looks like it will make it into the final "trunk kit" package that will be on sale soon. The bar connects the back end of the two trailing arms on the twist beam. Since the beam itself resists motion of one arm versus the other, connecting the two arms together at the end means that pushing down on one will push up on the other. Which is exactly how a traditional rear sway bar works, from a force standpoint. Pretty clever. It also looks like it will serve as a method of controlling rear toe change during hard cornering.
Pics can be seen here on page 5.
Craig also related that the road racers are limited to 2.5 degrees of negative camber by rule and that the supplied camber bolts (various vendors sell these), combined with about a 2" drop in ride height, results in a camber setting right at 2.5. YMMV.
And finally, we are working with the folks at Vorshlag to see about developing camber plates for further/better adjustment. Bolts are non-optimal cuz they slip and can't be adjusted as easily for testing.
Of note is the rear sway bar that Craig designed, which looks like it will make it into the final "trunk kit" package that will be on sale soon. The bar connects the back end of the two trailing arms on the twist beam. Since the beam itself resists motion of one arm versus the other, connecting the two arms together at the end means that pushing down on one will push up on the other. Which is exactly how a traditional rear sway bar works, from a force standpoint. Pretty clever. It also looks like it will serve as a method of controlling rear toe change during hard cornering.
Pics can be seen here on page 5.
Craig also related that the road racers are limited to 2.5 degrees of negative camber by rule and that the supplied camber bolts (various vendors sell these), combined with about a 2" drop in ride height, results in a camber setting right at 2.5. YMMV.
And finally, we are working with the folks at Vorshlag to see about developing camber plates for further/better adjustment. Bolts are non-optimal cuz they slip and can't be adjusted as easily for testing.
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zoomerang2
Member
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- 2012 Madza2 Touring
That is an interesting solution; I will be looking forward to seeing what the entire product package entails any idea what all is included?
I have also been looking at the various Spring/Damper and Coilover sets currently out and debating the cost vs. performance advantages. I have been pretty happy with the Koni Yellow/Eibach Prokits on my other vehicle especially for the cost. However I would be very willing to spend the money on a good Coilover system for the 2 if the performance advantage were there.
Would you mind sharing your opinion on this question? Specifically, regarding the Mazda2 in the STF class... and maybe some road racing event?
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- 2012 Touring MT
Brief Update:
Disclaimer: I have been driving the car with 15x8 wheels which are illegal for STF, but the results I had should be very close to the 15x7.5 permitted size.
First event at Sebring 1-15-2012: temps were below 70 in the morning, around 73 afternoon, did not have competition in STF but running on old 195-50-15 R1R's and H&R springs, my times were a second from a HS Mini, and 2 seconds from a fully prepped STR 99 Miata driven by Derrin Dissimo and David Marcus.
Second event Bank Atlantic Center 1-22-2012: With KSports Coilovers, temps low 70's in the morning up to 80 in the afternoon, manage to get mid 56 seconds run in the morning on R1R's. Again Derrin and David Marcus were in the 99 STR Miata, ran the mid 55's (on old R1R's 225-45-15's).
Afternoon switched to the RS3's brand new, best time 55.8, Derrin and David ran a 55.3
Forgot to mention that tis time I had a Yaris competing in STF, he has lowering springs and aftermarket wheels on Bridgestone RE-11, I thing his times were high 58 - mid 59 seconds. (nice guy)
Again might not be very precise scientifically speaking but is a good beginning, very happy with the car!!!! PAX wise I'm pretty sure I Paxed first !!!
Will post details and times on my STF project thread.
Andres
Disclaimer: I have been driving the car with 15x8 wheels which are illegal for STF, but the results I had should be very close to the 15x7.5 permitted size.
First event at Sebring 1-15-2012: temps were below 70 in the morning, around 73 afternoon, did not have competition in STF but running on old 195-50-15 R1R's and H&R springs, my times were a second from a HS Mini, and 2 seconds from a fully prepped STR 99 Miata driven by Derrin Dissimo and David Marcus.
Second event Bank Atlantic Center 1-22-2012: With KSports Coilovers, temps low 70's in the morning up to 80 in the afternoon, manage to get mid 56 seconds run in the morning on R1R's. Again Derrin and David Marcus were in the 99 STR Miata, ran the mid 55's (on old R1R's 225-45-15's).
Afternoon switched to the RS3's brand new, best time 55.8, Derrin and David ran a 55.3
Forgot to mention that tis time I had a Yaris competing in STF, he has lowering springs and aftermarket wheels on Bridgestone RE-11, I thing his times were high 58 - mid 59 seconds. (nice guy)
Again might not be very precise scientifically speaking but is a good beginning, very happy with the car!!!! PAX wise I'm pretty sure I Paxed first !!!
Will post details and times on my STF project thread.
Andres
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- 2012 Touring MT
When, not what... I think they are on the way already.
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- All Mazdas!
Nice.
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- 2012 Touring MT
Andy Hollis
Member
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- 2012 Mazda 2 Sport
The B Spec kit for the 2 is primarily suspension. Re-valved version of the Bilstein strut/shock setup, adapted for inclusion of regular race springs (likely 2.5" id). Camber bolts for the front. Rear sway bar (see earlier description). And a few other odds and ends. I seem to recall the cost as somewhere around $2600.
Looks like a cost-effective way to get a nice suspension, though.
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zoomerang2
Member
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- 2012 Madza2 Touring
Yes, I agree... it sounds like something I will be looking into. Thanks for the response and keep the updates coming!
I got this in an email from Mazdaspeed Motorsports today:
Mazda 2 / B-Spec Parts Kits- Available mid-February
The Mazda 2 / B-Spec parts kits will be available in just a couple weeks. The Mazda 2 suspension kit has been tested extensively, making the Mazda 2 perhaps the best handling car in the class. The parts kit includes components listed below and is priced at $2575.00. Call us today to reserve your kit.
- Front & Rear Shocks (Bilstein w/ special valving)
- Race, Helper springs and spacers
- Front sway bar end link
- Rear Sway Bar (adjustable)
- Front crash/camber bolts
- Front & Rear Brake Line Kits (Stop-Tech)
- Cat-Back Exhaust System
- Air Filter (Green Filter)
- Oil Cooler Kit (sandwich style oil cooler)
- A/C Delete Kit (idler pulley)
Looks like a decent deal for anyone looking for a package style upgrade for your 2.
Mazda 2 / B-Spec Parts Kits- Available mid-February
The Mazda 2 / B-Spec parts kits will be available in just a couple weeks. The Mazda 2 suspension kit has been tested extensively, making the Mazda 2 perhaps the best handling car in the class. The parts kit includes components listed below and is priced at $2575.00. Call us today to reserve your kit.
- Front & Rear Shocks (Bilstein w/ special valving)
- Race, Helper springs and spacers
- Front sway bar end link
- Rear Sway Bar (adjustable)
- Front crash/camber bolts
- Front & Rear Brake Line Kits (Stop-Tech)
- Cat-Back Exhaust System
- Air Filter (Green Filter)
- Oil Cooler Kit (sandwich style oil cooler)
- A/C Delete Kit (idler pulley)
Looks like a decent deal for anyone looking for a package style upgrade for your 2.
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- 2012 Touring MT
-Springs , no coilovers, height might not be adjustable.
-What kind of sway bar can be adjustable for the 2?
-Air filter is not a CAI
-Oil cooler might not be STF legal
- A/C delete no STF legal
Not a bad deal, but if you really want to have fully prepped Spec-B car you might have to be ready to spend more than $2500 (Roll cage wheels, tires, ect) I am sticking with STF, I'm half way already (nana)
Andres
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Springs are height adjustable;
Sway bar is adjustable;
CAI not for Mazda2 because of ECU cooling and heat soak potential issues;
Correct on items 4 and 5 however there may be some allowance in different supplemental cars for full B-Spec packages just like there is for spec Miata DSP if fully compliant, CSP otherwise (this may be a bit out of date).
