well im going to purchase my first car soon and im looking at getting a speed. the 2 guys that i normally go driving with drive a 02 vw gti 1.8t and a 01 v6 mustang. can a speed hang with these guys? i really like speeds, especially since they are 4 door which will help with my expensive 17 yr old insurance. also, the gti can get a neuspeed chip for $350 that gives like 40hp, is something like that available for a msp?
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MSP vs. gti 1.8t
- Thread starter Toasty
- Start date
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- 2003.5 Titanium MSP
The mustang, will be owned by you, the GTi 1.8t, I'm not completely sure, but it'd prolly be close, someone else may be able to help more here. As for the chip..good luck, closest thing for that price, would maybe be one of the greddy or HKS Boost/ecu controllers, and they are not a complete guarantee, and also, turning up the boost isn't that safe...V-dubs are lucky, to have a strong bottom end stock.
rocketspeed
Member
- :
- 03.5 Mazdaspeed Protege, Titanium Gray
Stock for stock, yes with the GTI and it will be faster than the V6 stang unless he's got mods (why would you mod a v6 stang?)
The EMS solutions out there for the VW 1.8t are much cheaper and much better than what little is available for the MSP. Large aftermarket for those cars, more proven parts that generally cost less.
It will cost you a lot less to have a fast 1.8t and it will likely hold up better.
That said, I wouldn't trade my MSP for a 1.8t. They handle like junk and it takes some pretty serious coin and effort to get those things to handle anywhere near like even a stock MSP (plan on replacing the whole suspension- coilovers, bars, bushings - the works and adding a LSD).
If tunability and straight line speed are what you crave (or if you really like doing lots of suspension mods), go 1.8t. That car can make a lot more power for a lot less money.
The EMS solutions out there for the VW 1.8t are much cheaper and much better than what little is available for the MSP. Large aftermarket for those cars, more proven parts that generally cost less.
It will cost you a lot less to have a fast 1.8t and it will likely hold up better.
That said, I wouldn't trade my MSP for a 1.8t. They handle like junk and it takes some pretty serious coin and effort to get those things to handle anywhere near like even a stock MSP (plan on replacing the whole suspension- coilovers, bars, bushings - the works and adding a LSD).
If tunability and straight line speed are what you crave (or if you really like doing lots of suspension mods), go 1.8t. That car can make a lot more power for a lot less money.
Speedplease
Member
- :
- 2003 Black GT Mustang
EIP's chip is better for VW's. stock for stock its a drivers race between vw and speed. V6 mustang should be an easy kill since i regulary beat up on stock gt's Highway racing.
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rocketspeed
Member
- :
- 03.5 Mazdaspeed Protege, Titanium Gray
Do the GT's know you are racing them? My MSP doens't have much top end, I doubt I could pull on a current GT (ie. 2004) from any speed- maybe an old 5.slow one, though.
are you including the cost of the cars vs. each other in this? im pretty sure a 1.8t cost alot more then an msp does now. Although i never wanted either of the cars so i can't be certain on each value.rocketspeed said:go 1.8t. That car can make a lot more power for a lot less money.
A stock 1.8T GTI is faster than a MSP. They run a high 14' stock. The "EMS" solutions for 1.8T's is a mixed bag. They have a lot of ecu upgrades. Which is great. But it is more of a "fire and forget" type of mentality. Doesn't really allow you to do any fine tuning. Whereas the F10X/E6X(K) or microtech or the MPi (for the protege) does. Realistically if your buying the MSP for top speed, your buying the wrong car. The MSP will out handle either of your buddies on their best day, stock. It's not too complicated to get an MSP into the 13's though, so if I was you, I'd buy the MSP and be happy.
Speedplease
Member
- :
- 2003 Black GT Mustang
Yes the gt's do know im racing cause the look on there face is is priceless when they cant pull on me. I know how to drive also which helps. Im not destroying them or anything, like half a car thats it. And yes there top end eventually beats me out but I shut down around 100 -115 mph. And to date i raced and old 87 gt and three '00 to '02 cant really tell the difference. Sorry to thread jack continue your comparsion! And good luck. I say gti cause I always liked them.
i think im gonna go with the speed. of course i wont be buying until this summer, but i figure i will be able to find one, even if i have to drive a little ways. yes the stang is stock except for a magnaflow exhaust. im not really interested in having a super fast car, just something thats fun, and the msp seems to fit the bill.
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- '08 Jetta; '10 Wrangler Unlimited
good choice. my fiance drives a 04' Jetta with the 1.8 and it is quick; i love my P5 (not that quick), and like the speed. the mazda's handle great stock and i would not even think of the V6 stang.....Toasty said:i think im gonna go with the speed.
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- Hemi Ram, 71 Plymth Scamp, 71 Plymth Duster 340, 69 Dart 340/4sp
Buy the MSP. Vw's are badong (for a tech. anyways).
rocketspeed
Member
- :
- 03.5 Mazdaspeed Protege, Titanium Gray
I'm buying the old '87 can barely keep up with only 225 or so hp (i forget), but an '04 runs 260hp and 302 lb/ft 3,347 lbs, so that's 12.87 lb per hp. An MSP with 170 has to pull 16.52 lb/hp. That's a power to weight ratio you won't be able to get past unless you're extensively modded in an MSP.Speedplease said:Yes the gt's do know im racing cause the look on there face is is priceless when they cant pull on me. I know how to drive also which helps. Im not destroying them or anything, like half a car thats it. And yes there top end eventually beats me out but I shut down around 100 -115 mph. And to date i raced and old 87 gt and three '00 to '02 cant really tell the difference. Sorry to thread jack continue your comparsion! And good luck. I say gti cause I always liked them.
Toasty said:well im going to purchase my first car soon and im looking at getting a speed. the 2 guys that i normally go driving with drive a 02 vw gti 1.8t and a 01 v6 mustang. can a speed hang with these guys? i really like speeds, especially since they are 4 door which will help with my expensive 17 yr old insurance. also, the gti can get a neuspeed chip for $350 that gives like 40hp, is something like that available for a msp?
There are no speed left for sale! Your only option: used, and be careful that it hasn't been beaten nor that it was a (rare) lemon that someone got rid of...
rocketspeed
Member
- :
- 03.5 Mazdaspeed Protege, Titanium Gray
I'm talking about a Mustang GT if you read- pointing out that if people think they're going to be pulling on '04 Mustang GT's in an MSP, they're on crack unless they're heavily modded. Handling is where the MSP shines, not straight line speed.Toasty said:a stock gti has 180hp, not 260 0-60 and quarter mile times for both cars stock are very similar
The 1.8t and MSP are very similar in terms of acceleration, perhaps a very slight edge to the GTI but it would be a driver's race.
As for the GTI, base 1.8t's are in the $16k range right now, they are discounting them heavily with the new model coming next year. Even the base car is pretty well equipped. If you're going to mod the car you're better off saving the dough you'd spend on things like the 17 inch rim option or leater seats and just going aftermarket with your upgrades.
Any MSP you buy will be used. You should be able to get one for $12.5-14.5k or so depending on miles, the resale value on them is not great.
Between a new MSP and a new GTI, I'd go MSP again. Between a used MSP and a new GTI for only a little more, I'd go new GTI and fix the crappy suspension. You'll have to spend thousands just to get a GTI to handle like a stock MSP. The flip side of that is that you'd have to spend thousands on an MSP engine to get to the power you can make with the 1.8t engine with just a few hundred in mods and you'd wind up with something a lot more fragile with a modded MSP - the bottom end of the MSP engine can't hold a whole lot of power without a costly build-up.
My MSP insurance bill is about the same as a GTI's - the VIN gives you away, 4dr or not.
Both are great, the a.8T GTI will be smoother, longer legs, softer, and with a better quality interior. The MSP is more hard-edged but gives up a few HP and the aftermarket support that VW"s have. Both are great cars in their market. I have the MSP, love it, but am still torn.
Both are great, the a.8T GTI will be smoother, longer legs, softer, and with a better quality interior. The MSP is more hard-edged but gives up a few HP and the aftermarket support that VW"s have. Both are great cars in their market. I have the MSP, love it, but am still torn.
my msp is still listed as a regular base protege for insurance purposesping said:My MSP insurance bill is about the same as a GTI's - the VIN gives you away, 4dr or not.
Both are great, the a.8T GTI will be smoother, longer legs, softer, and with a better quality interior. The MSP is more hard-edged but gives up a few HP and the aftermarket support that VW"s have. Both are great cars in their market. I have the MSP, love it, but am still torn.
LASERBLUE135
Registered Pimp
- :
- Laser Blue MSP
Emode said:my msp is still listed as a regular base protege for insurance purposes
that's true!!! gotta love it.
And I pulled ever so slightly on a GTI the other night. stock for stock. No way I would give up my MSP for a GTI. If you want cheap fun though do consider a SER spec V. you can get them for around $8,000 now! Hell WRX's are running 12K too. (but insurance on those will bite you in the ass!)
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