MSP(0) Vs S200 (1)

Jaje,

I wasn't trying to give a history lesson here, ok! I was only stating that F1 had a major influence in turbo technology by pioneering the limits of turbocharging. actually Renault was laughed at by other F1 teams in the 70's when they started to produce turbo F1 engines. By the pinnacle of the "turbo era" of F1, teams were given a choice of I believe a 3.5L n/a engine or a 1.5L turbo engine. (also here were other rules imposed to stop the surge of hp that the F1 teams were extracting through their pioneered F1 technology) But larger displacement n/a engines went away almost completely in favor of the 1.5L turbo. I believe the BMW had the highest HP rating of 1,400 hp. When I stated previously that F1 pioneered the turbo, I meant every bit of that. Their contribution far exceeded MB. But lets not forget the most common FI vehicles of the Century, the airplane. In order for piston engine airplanes to fly higher and remain efficient, F/I technology was also used (supercharger & Turbochargers). In this respect, I think that they also pioneered turbo technology in their own way also. Moral of the story, Just because someone came up with an idea and implemented it, doesn't mean that a person or an entity (F1) can pioneer the limits of a product, process, etc... (Turbo). Usually I don't like writing this much, but I thought that you needed to know that I am not talking out of my ass. As you, I have had years of experience, I actually grew up with my fathers vintage car collection. Everyday and every weekend of my life was devoted to cars just about. Another point I would like to make, is that if I don't experience things, I don't talk about them. In this particular S2000 situation, I am speaking from experience and not once did I say (stock vs. scock) a MSP can beat a S2000, I only stated that an MSP can and will keep up with an S2000 going into 4th gear granted that niether car launch at its peak levels and I honestly believe a modified MSP can for a fact keep up or beat a S2000. Note: I never said the MSP was the fastest car out there, but when I raced the few S2000, I was actually suprised to stay with them all the way into 4th gear because of most people here they think that an S2000, launched anyway can rocket to 60 in <6 sec. I am telling you right now, I drove one and if you don't launch right you will be right there with an MSP. That is all I have to say.

BTW: I had a run int with a new RX-8 last night. I am not going to comment what happened for fear of (RX-8 is the fastest car) people out there. LOL
 
Aviation had lots to do with the development of turbocharger technology...F1 did too...so did CanAm, LeMans, etc. F1 is the limit of technology as expense is a no holds bar event and the engine is only required to last the length of the race. I would more agree that if any racing venue pioneered this technology it would have been LeMans due to the fact that endurance racing actually pushes an engine further and reliability is a much more critical aspect (which was the turbo's greatest achilles heel).

Its good to see someone else who grew up with cars and experienced it instead of via video games and reading magazines. I've rebuilt so many cars (mainly hondas as they are cheap, reliable, great n/a platforms with have lots of potential) where my protege5's engine was to put it honestly...a great disappointment to the zoom - zoom image mazda advertises...but they aren't the only ones...[the evil ford empire advertises quality is job one but more pointedly profit is job one...see pinto and explorers].

mustangs can get low 14s or high 13s...but this is at a drag track with elevation near sea level on a cool day with sticky pavement and the usual 100-200lbs they gut from the car...(stock s2000s can run mid 13s with the same conditions and weight loss...but anyone who buys a s2k for the sole purposes of drag racing needs their head examined)...back to the stangs...where most people race on the street these magical track #s don't exist as pavement is slippery and the driver hasn't done a 10 minute gutting...the stock stang you pull up to can only run high 14s which is the limit of its traction from a very heavy musclecar pretending to be a sportscar

at least we both agree that a stock msp can't own a stock s2000...I still don't agree that in 4th gear [too many parameters...was he really racing, was the 3rd stage of vtec engaged] a slightly mod'd msp can keep up with one...i guess we'll have to agree to disagree

if you get a chance in the future see if you can get a ride in a s2k at a road track (s2k can snap oversteer so the driver needs to learn its limits gradually...seen a couple so far in tirewalls this year at driving schools)...they are extremely quick and quite an impressive feat of engineering from a 2.0 n/a engine...i'm an engineer at heart and appreciate "do more with less"...that is why the biggest block car i've ever owned is my wife's 2.4 liter tsx (i wanted a 330i with perf package...but at 12k more it is a bitter pill to swallow)...after years of building sohc vtecs with afc boltons, flashed ecu, and good tuning we can get 140whp from a 1.6 liter engine...and it remains daily driveable as it was stock...vtec is a good thing and all mfgrs are following suit...its only the ricers that give it a bad image and unfortunately there are a lot out there in civics doing this
 
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SpicyMchaggis said:
hmm i dont think an MSP can take a S2K..its like saying my DX took a 350Z..

So an MSP that runs a 14.x cant take out an s2000? Sounds like you're full of s***.
 
big_ben said:
None of what you just said made any sense at all. You have just made yourself look completely braindead in front of everyone on this forum. Congratulations!


I'm sure that anyone who know's me from this board know's that I loved my MP3-T while it lasted and I still think MP3's and MSP's are great cars for the money. No it doesn't take lots of money to own an S2000. My car payment went up from $331/month to $336/month. And since I just turned 25, my insurance just got cut in half.

No Vtec doesn't rule. But Vtec in an S2000 rules an MSP.

But you said that they ran a low 14 at 100mph? Damn that's fast. That's what the stock S2000 is capable of. The best time I've ever read of is a 13.7 @ 103mph from a stock S2000.

But, what psi was he at and how long is his motor going to last at that level? Very important questions. I could rig a Pinto to beat an S2000 with a 200 shot of N2O, but will it ever drive again afterwards? No.:D

Don't make me get my VTEC!!! I spanked a McLaren with my S2000!!!
 
S2000 vs evo 8

My buddy at work has a Mitsu EVO 8. I have ridden in it and driven it, I would bet that it would kill any stock MSP or S2000 hands down. In both acceleration, cornering and brakeing. This car has been claimed to be the best performing car for the money ever in many mag's. It will run 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, and the quarter mile in the mid 13's completely stock.
 
Re: S2000 vs evo 8

motorman54933 said:
My buddy at work has a Mitsu EVO 8. I have ridden in it and driven it, I would bet that it would kill any stock MSP or S2000 hands down. In both acceleration, cornering and brakeing. This car has been claimed to be the best performing car for the money ever in many mag's. It will run 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, and the quarter mile in the mid 13's completely stock.

ya but the evo is almost at its peak potential, runnning 19.5 lbs boost stock :eek: at i think about 270-80 hp, now if you were to apply that to the s2000(turbo/supercharger) it wouldnt need to run that much boost to get those numbers and im pretty sure the s2000 handles just as good...but your right it would manhandle them stock AWD kicks ass!!!!
 
Re: Re: S2000 vs evo 8

AZDriftR said:
ya but the evo is almost at its peak potential, runnning 19.5 lbs boost stock :eek: at i think about 270-80 hp, now if you were to apply that to the s2000(turbo/supercharger) it wouldnt need to run that much boost to get those numbers and im pretty sure the s2000 handles just as good...but your right it would manhandle them stock AWD kicks ass!!!!

The EVO is not at it's peak potential. It can still be modded, and heavily at that.

People have to know that the fastest car will be the car with the most invested into it.
 
evo is can run up to 400hp as its engines is built specifically for turbos...the s2000 is a poor platform and needs block girdles, and completely new internals (thus lower the redline etc) to even run high boost

s2000 though is a better endurance engine and will run at much lower temperatures as we all know turbo engines run hotter and oil temp gets bad quickly the higher boost you run
 
Ok, I don't believe that a 10psi,cai msp can take a s2000 it just ain't feasable. But a guy here in ontario who works at a dealership has about 4000 into his msp, the other day he dynoed at 241whp and 256tq now Would you say that it is slower than a stock s2000 that s2000 wouldn't know what hit him. Period. The guy that built his car up is 20minutes away from me and is helping me to pull the same #s now you can call BS all you want but anything is possible with the right knowledge. I bet when civics first posted 200whp people were all over them calling bs. The same guy just finished up a club member's p5 that is pulling 235whp w/spools stage 2 turbo kit. Trust me when I say that this guy is good at what he does.
 
does he have 1000 hp NO. Why do people think that the protege will just blow up if given more hp, It's called TUNING that is what makes a car perform better, I can't help it that a couple people on this board don't know how to tune and blow something up or wonder why there car is acting like it is. It's a lost cause with people on this board brainwashed that the protege will never achieve anything worth praising.
 
brennan said:
does he have 1000 hp NO. Why do people think that the protege will just blow up if given more hp, It's called TUNING that is what makes a car perform better, I can't help it that a couple people on this board don't know how to tune and blow something up or wonder why there car is acting like it is. It's a lost cause with people on this board brainwashed that the protege will never achieve anything worth praising.
the 2.0 na version can get up to 253 hp (not whp) but that is at the expense of reliability...read up on speedvision wc proteges and the engines can only last 2-3 races before they need rebuilding...or just watch a race and every so often one of the proteges engines will grenade...now the rsx type s engine is also a 2.0 na and makes similar power but lasts the whole season...the s2000 engine makes 240 stock out of 2.0 na

forced induction is another matter altogether and requires an engine to be built differently...turboing a aluminium block built for na purposes is a very expensive method to go as you have to prep the engine with block girdles, forged internals, etc.

if you build and tune it right it will be powerful yet semi reliable (this is a reservation as a unmodified factory engine that runs at low boost or with less power should last longer as that was its intended purpose)
 
jaje said:
the 2.0 na version can get up to 253 hp (not whp) but that is at the expense of reliability...read up on speedvision wc proteges and the engines can only last 2-3 races before they need rebuilding...or just watch a race and every so often one of the proteges engines will grenade...now the rsx type s engine is also a 2.0 na and makes similar power but lasts the whole season...the s2000 engine makes 240 stock out of 2.0 na

Two things:
1)
Read Car & Driver issue June 2003, pg. 149 ... Mazda's entry into the touring car races is the most heavily modded, due to it's low stock performance. "So, although the other cars here use stock intake manifolds and engine internals that weigh close to the production units, the Protege' doesn't.... In World Challenge trim, the engine is extensively modified, including a fabricated intake manifold and header, lighter connecting rods, and pistons that help create a lofty 13.5:1 comporession ratio." This is most likely why the life of the Protege's engine is so much shorter in the World Challenge Touring Car races.

2)
Mazdaspeed Stock #s: (as performed by C&D, Sep 2002)
standing 1/4 mile: 15.4 @ 91 mph
0-60: 6.9 sec
Street start, 5-60: 8.0 sec
top-gear acceleration, 30-50: 9.9
top-gear accelaration, 50-70: 9.8

Honda S2000 Stock #s: (as performed by C&D, Dec 2002)
Standing 1/4 mile: 14.9 @ 95 mph
0-60: 6.3 sec
Street start, 5-60: 7.6 sec
top-gear acceleration, 30-50:12.7
top-gear acceleration, 50-70: 9.8


If you ask me, these numbers aren't that far from eachother. And they are derived from multiple runs.

Notice I'm not using HP ratings...this is just to show how well the car's engine & transmission ratios are matched up. The s2000 definitely has more HP over the MSP stock, but modded, the MSP should show better #s than what's above. And don't bother calling this "magazine racing" cause the guys doing these road tests have far more experience than most of us could ever dream of. This is just an example/comparison between the two cars.

My vote: the modded MSP should have run w/ the S2000, and with more boost, it should be able to take the stock S2000.
 
1) the fact that a modified 2.0 mazda engine to make the same power as basically a stock 2.0 in a rsx type s (wc prepped), or the f20c in the s2000 tells you what?...should the modified engine be better equipped to handle this power and last longer?

2) you're completely ignoring the fact of a fwd car versus a rwd car...launching a fwd high torque vehicle is much harder than a rwd or awd vehicle

just looking at stats and comparing them doesn't tell the whole picture
 
I'm not trying to say that the Mazda 2.0 liter doesn't need some tuning from the factory...I actually feel that they need to invest some time making thier engines more competetive, and therefore I agree. I was just saying that this is probably why the Mazda engines aren't as long lived on to WC circuit.

Secondly, it is clear to me that the people at C&D are very experienced drivers, and all of thier #'s are direct comparisons...ie they both started from a dead launch, etc... Yes..there is a difference between fwd & rwd...I own both types (RX7 & MSP)...and I'll agree that you must use different techniques to launch different platforms...I'm just throwing in my $.02, that's all
 
Who said that those two numbers are closes is a moron. Did anybody said that maybe two totally different drivers arrived with those numbers???

I bet F1 cars can do 0-60 in 11 seconds flat...
 
If you can't shave 1/2 a second off of your 0-60 times by upping your boost a few pounds, then what good is it ******* for?? Yeah, they are pretty close, and when you put 3 more psi into the mix, I'll bet it gets even closer. As for the people testing, I'm sure they have more skill in thier left nut than most ricers on this board wish they had...pay attention!

Edit - I'm referring to MrRoseBlacksMSP on page one of thread, who is running 8-9 psi & just beat out the S2000 from a roll in 2nd gear.
 
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