MP3, MSP and P5 Engine Management solution

[igdrasil]

I am slightly confused.

Basically, if I were to order this, I call up and tell you what i have and what I want to do. Then you configure the whole thing for me, send it out and I'm done?

I've always operated under the assumption that no matter what the base maps are, you need to tune everything for the specific application.

I'm guessing this will still be possible? I tell you what I have, you send out a basic set up for that, then I tune it to get the most out of what I have, right?

Thanks.

remember the AEM will tune itself...

I am done, I want to be one of the first to have that thing!
Im selling my FMU, who wants it?

 

[70]

remember the AEM will tune itself...

I am done, I want to be one of the first to have that thing!
Im selling my FMU, who wants it?

I'm not so hip to having something tune itself...I though I had seen that, but there just something that doesn't feel right about tuning itself.

 

[igdrasil]

I'm not so hip to having something tune itself...I though I had seen that, but there just something that doesn't feel right about tuning itself.

why not? I think F.A.S.T. is the other one that does the same and cost over $3,000.00.
Tuning itself will read all sensors, injector duty, air flow, rpm, throttle, load, etc...and make changes accordingly if needed FROM your programmed base map. Thats driveability...

But also, hes offering a unit that you can program what you want, so...well there is.

 

[70]

I'm just thinking that the base map is nice, but as you change parts, its going to be constantly re-learning things, which just seems strange to me. Like I say, it might work vey well, but is kind of a new concept.

The base map is based on what you have at the time you put the ECM in the car. But as you change parts, shouldn't also change the base map?

I don't know what I'm getting at anymore. I've been up since 9:00 am MST yesterday and am beginning to lose sight of where I was going with this in the first place.

 

[perfworks]

So emission will pass, that sounds terrific. Thanks guys awesome. So what's the difference between going to standalone compared to parallel, if the "important" processings are done by the AEM EMS anyway in parallel mode?? What's the advantage of going stand-alone? I mean if you can get the engine management down and so forth with all the functional tuning of a stand-alone with a parallel "piggy-back" ecu. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me the parallel option has more advantages than stand-alone.

Oh well, I guess the Motec isn't for the protege. I guess I'll save that one for my rwd track car.

And once again, thank you guys. Time to start putting those changes into the piggy bank.

I'll break it down slightly for you using this example.
Again it is not limited to these controls. This is basically an example to show the reason for the two different units and sub structures within.

Parallel-
-Stock ECU still active along with the AEM PnP unit
- The stock ECU will still output commands to the following drivers: IAC, Cruise control, Dash (tach, speedo, fuel gauge etc), Vtcs opration , Vics chamber activation, Alternator compensation adn regulation, Powersteering Pressure. There are alot more but I think you all get the point.
- AEM EMS will directly control ALL of your Timing and Opening of the injectors. The stock ECU will have NOTHING to do with fuel or ignition any longer. The AEM will be programmed as a "sub contractor" to deliver the essentials needed to get the car running properly, efficiently and for the best possible performance at the given application.
- The Parallel system allows you to keep your everyday functions the same as it came from the factory. BUT still gives you the tunability you need to make it into a track monster.
- It allows you to always have the ability to PLUG your ECU back in god forbid you have any issues with the unit or drivability or ANYTHING. SAFETY precautions only guys. You never know when something can go wrong and you dont want to be stranded. Now depending on your level of performance you should not have ANY problems like this but it is a safety measure I like to employ.
(AGAIN , I wont go into every function as it will take all day and night just to post about it)

Standalone- The AEM EMS will control EVERYTHING. Fuel , timing Vics, Vtcs, AC compensation and control, alternator, blah and some more BLAH. EVERYTHING! That means addition tuning and labor. So naturaly the price will be higher.

Someone had mentioned something about CAM control? The protege doesnt have a "vtec" type setup BUT this is what you do control with it.
Depending on cam profile, the rpm scaling in the AEM can be varied so as to compensate for needed tuning in that range. In other words (lamens terms), If you desire to tune the cams with adjustable gears and would like to change your powerband, this is what you will do. Simply by "creating" resolution in the software for the particular range of rpm you are looking to modify. If the cams really start to breathe well around 4000 and fall off at around 6700rpm (example guys) we will have it tuned so that the AEM will have closer break points in that range . That way you can tune for every 200 RPM rather than 500-700 rpm. We can fine tune the fuel and igntion curve more precisely by inputing the range in which we prefer to have the AEM "pay more attention". Again there is alot more to it. Im just trying to generalize so everyone understands. This unit is amazing. It does everything. Or at least I should say it has the ability to do everything you need for the car.
Another good thing about the Parallel system and the Standalone is the following:
We can and will employ this on auto cars. Meaning in parallel mode we will contol the car for FI and NA just as well as it would be for a manual vehicle. Both the units will vary in function. The parallel system will utilize the stock controls in the ecu for the TRANS shifting BUT we can program it to "watch" the stock ecu and not let it over rev. OR when someone wants to go to full standalone we can control the auto tranny shiftpoints and VSS ETC. Trust me when I say EVERYTHING!

 

[perfworks]

I am slightly confused.

Basically, if I were to order this, I call up and tell you what i have and what I want to do. Then you configure the whole thing for me, send it out and I'm done?

I've always operated under the assumption that no matter what the base maps are, you need to tune everything for the specific application.

I'm guessing this will still be possible? I tell you what I have, you send out a basic set up for that, then I tune it to get the most out of what I have, right?

Thanks.

Alright great questions. YES you need to tune the vehicle to the specific application to gain the most comprehensive and exact tune.
Now let me start with your first question. First, yes would call up and we would have a conversation about your goals and modifications to the vehicle. After that we design a system specifically for your car. Thru base and target mapping ALREADY in our database from the R&D we have done on our shop vehicle. The P5 will go thru so many transformations it will look like a comelian when it is done. I cant even count how many types of maps we can develop and have on some other vehicles.
We will send you a unit out that PLUGS right in. Start the car and drive away. Yes it will be conservative at first. BUT COMPLETE. meaning you can go WOT, partial whatever and be OK. JUST like plugging a stock ECU from another CAR to yours. The vehicle has a correction factor and closed loop operation. It will Correct the fuel and timing curve based on knock, air temp, A/F ratio etc. These are all programmable points that we will define inthe unit. What I mean by self tune is that the AEM has the ability to readjust your settings for max efficiency and power at the same time . I can run CLOSED loop operation ALL the time and get MAX power and reliabilty with the use of the Wideband option.
It wont be like the stock ECU where it is just throwing fuel and timing at you depending on load and RPM. The AEM will give you what you NEED at the given RPM and load. AUTO TUNE is not what it really means. WE tune the AEM and it will compensate when it needs to if need be.
Now to get the most Ideal tune, we can do two things. NO.1 exchange datalog files via internet. We will correct the mapping get you running via uploading the corrected maps. NO.2 We set up a dyno time. For those that are Located too far to travel to Wagner Motorsports for a dyno tune then WE will come to YOU. I will get into that further Later

 

[perfworks]

I'm not so hip to having something tune itself...I though I had seen that, but there just something that doesn't feel right about tuning itself.

I explain above that it doesnt tune itself. Closed loop operation helps keep you out of trouble and give you a preprogrammed A/F curve that we designate based on Load, RPM, boost ETC. You can also run no feedback at all. The car will run great either way. I just like to keep emmisions low and good fuel economy when not in boost.

 

[perfworks]

I will give you all some prelim pricing on the units. This is still general and pretty close. It should not vary any from this figure but the options of WB and boost control may a little.
These are forum prices.
Parallel system will be $1450
Standalone will be $1900
Injectors from 440 to 650 cc will be $385
Wideband option is $250
Boost control is about $30
I will go into more detail in the early part of the week.
Please keep in mind that the pricing cant vary too low as to keep with the agreement we made thru the company.
Dont think that COST on these unit is low. If I told you all what I was buying them for and then all the work we are doing you would think I was crazy for doing this.
If we do a group buy for every 5 units we will go to an additional $75 off each unit. So if the units are GBought and they sign up 5, the discount will be $75. If they get 10 it will be $150. Get it?
But we will get into that when we are closer to marketing the product in about two to three weeks.
Availability is two weeks after the order.
Thanks for your time.

 

[igdrasil]

Im in for the parallel.

 

[Equinox]

I'm also in for the paralell, wideband, and boost options. Sounds Great Perfworks, you and Andy continue to sacrifice yourself for the better of me, lol.

 

[jersey_emt]

If we can get 20 members in on a group buy, the price would then be $1150? That's VERY close to the $1K limit some members were saying.

 

[igdrasil]

For those that are Located too far to travel to Wagner Motorsports for a dyno tune then WE will come to YOU. I will get into that further Later

Will you come up to PR?

 

[DooMer_MP3]

Well I gotta say, the prelim prices look very good. Not what I was expecting (I was expecting $2k after looking at their site). Good work!

Chris

 

[perfworks]

If we can get 20 members in on a group buy, the price would then be $1150? That's VERY close to the $1K limit some members were saying.

MAX is $150

 

[perfworks]

Will you come up to PR?

We are going to talk about doing Dyno days. If not at Andy's shop then we will make arrangemtns for Dyno days in certain citys. That way we can have a group of people there to get tuned and get better pricing for their participation.

 

[jersey_emt]

Yeah, I had figured there would be a max discount. But still, $1300 is an excellent price.

 

[perfworks]

Yeah, I had figured there would be a max discount. But still, $1300 is an excellent price.

Again it is not set in stone yet it may vary slightly. But we are giving the forum members here the opportunity to take part in an exciting and great project. I will also list retail pricing once we are done and ready to do a group buy. AT THAT point after the group buy there will be only retail pricing available. So I just wanted to give you guys an oppurtunity to save up. I know its not easy for some but if you really want performance that cant be beat then you have to make some sacrifices.

 

[SDMSP]

perfworks, what is the max HP we could get on the stock injectors for a MSP? when do you need to go to the bigger ones?

 

[perfworks]

perfworks, what is the max HP we could get on the stock injectors for a MSP? when do you need to go to the bigger ones?

I would go with Larger Injectors right away IMHO. They wont support anything more than 200 WHP. And that is pushing it with slightly higher fuel pressure. Some people have claimed more but I dont trust them after first hand experience and very HIGH duty cycles in boost.
Also look soon this week for pricing on the forged internal, fully assembled short blocks we are offering. That will complete any good High output package.

 

[02.5 P5]

is there going to be a discount for the Injectors, WB, Boost Control for the GB as well?