Lug Nut/Wheel Lock Torque Question (2021 CX-9)

The guys at the local chain tire shop hammer the nuts tight with the impact wrench, then click them several times with their torque wrench. None are loose. Some are real tight. Lug nuts can still be overtightened with a torque stick if it is used to hammer the nuts.

Antiseize or any other lube on the threads changes everything. The torque spec is a twisting spec, not a clamping spec. We want the wheels properly clamped to the hubs. The torque spec considers the friction of the nut on the threads and the friction of the nut face on the wheel as well as the surface finish and material of the fasteners. Lubed threads reduces this friction, so stretched or broken lug studs are a possibility. Torquing lubed threads to 80% of the dry thread spec is a rough rule of thumb.
 
PTguy said:
⋯ Antiseize or any other lube on the threads changes everything. The torque spec is a twisting spec, not a clamping spec. We want the wheels properly clamped to the hubs. The torque spec considers the friction of the nut on the threads and the friction of the nut face on the wheel as well as the surface finish and material of the fasteners. Lubed threads reduces this friction, so stretched or broken lug studs are a possibility. Torquing lubed threads to 80% of the dry thread spec is a rough rule of thumb.
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Yes, no anti-seize compound on studs to me.
 
People who don't use anti-sieze have never had to change a stud.

After you have to change that first one, you'll learn to appreciate the extra 5 seconds it takes to dab some on.
 
Never used anti-seize on wheel studs, ever.
Changed many a wheel stud over the years.
Will never use anti-seize on wheel studs, ever.

Funny thing though..... over 30 years of driving and wrenching, and never once has one of my lug nuts bonded with the studs. It's always been somebody else's junk.
 
The only shop I saw using actual torque wrench was at Costco Tire shop.
Techs install/rotate/balance tires, then a Sup comes over with Fixed torque wrench, do the final tightening. Then tell customer to come back after driving 25 miles to re-torque.
 
StPark said:
The only shop I saw using actual torque wrench was at Costco Tire shop.
Techs install/rotate/balance tires, then a Sup comes over with Fixed torque wrench, do the final tightening. Then tell customer to come back after driving 25 miles to re-torque.
Click to expand...
Of course my favorite Discount Tire Store has been using torque wrench for as long as I can remember (late 1980’s?). And I do have Costco membership.
 
Any problems experienced were all due to large establishments over-torque.

Probability of a large auto store or tire store over torquing my lugs with impact wrench = 90%

Probability of local mechanic over-torque/ under-torque= 0 %.

Probability of me under-torque by hand = 10% minimal. Never had a lug come loose or off.

Probability of me over torque by hand = 0%

Probability of me under or over torquing with torque wrench = 0%

Lug nuts welded to hub and had to use old wrought iron pipe to break loose(broke studs in process)...hell of a time getting the studs out ...pressing new ones was easy. - large tire company denied responsibility even though they put the tires on.

Lug nuts welded to hub... Brake rotors warped. Couldn't break loose, local mechanic got off, broke studs in process - large retail auto store denied any wrongdoing even though last ones to touch vehicle. Was already at mechanic so let him do it all. Huge repair bill.

Large tire retailer air-gunned nuts on so tight, stuck alongside road @ night and couldn't remove tire to get spare on. Had to pay for tow. Again had to get out my trusty iron pipe for leverage.

These were lessons well learned when young... With exception of warranty repairs, no dealer, large auto store or tire establishment has touched my vehicles in over 23 years and never will.
 
Last edited:
leok said:
I am planning to install wheel locks and have the following questions:

1. What torque do people usually use - Mazda has a range instead of a specific number. Does 90 sound reasonable?
2. Does anyone know what the manufacturer uses when torqueing at the factory - or, since there's a range, can one expect lack of uniformity?
3. Is it OK to torque only wheel locks without adjusting the other lug nuts to the same spec (since I don't know what the other lug nuts are torqued at; I assume then I will need to loosen all of them and re-tighten if I wanted to have the same torque on all of them; therefore, wanted to know if I could only do the wheel locks).

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Read the manual for torque specs.
Use a torque wrench to apply the specified torque to you lug locks should you choose to use them.
Invest in a breaker bar to loosen your other lugs and use the torque wrench to retighten. Then you know the job is completed correctly.

Over the years, when going to a shop for the first time, all too often I have found the lugs over torqued.
 
youri said:
Shops usually have torque sticks or equivalent for their air gun. They work like a torque wrench, they limit the torque applied to wheel nuts to a specific value.
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Person who worked at a shop here, I always used torque sticks. When you are doing that many wheels/tires a day you do not have time to re calibrate a torque wrench (I have a click type snap-on 1/2" torque wrench for wheels when I want to be exact). For my CX-5 I use 85 ft-lbs. The range may be due to different rims available on the range. For example with the Toyota 4runner you have one spec for aluminum rims and one for all others.
 
klone121 said:
Person who worked at a shop here, I always used torque sticks. When you are doing that many wheels/tires a day you do not have time to re calibrate a torque wrench (I have a click type snap-on 1/2" torque wrench for wheels when I want to be exact). For my CX-5 I use 85 ft-lbs. The range may be due to different rims available on the range. For example with the Toyota 4runner you have one spec for aluminum rims and one for all others.
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That is not the proper procedure or way to service a vehicle. Either the shop does it right or don't do it at all. I would be pissed if I saw that my lugs were not properly torqued with a wrench afterwards. I watch people like a hawk and I'll say something if not done to proper standards. Don't screw with my vehicle. Freaking hack shops
 
Tchman2016 said:
That is not the proper procedure or way to service a vehicle. Either the shop does it right or don't do it at all. I would be pissed if I saw that my lugs were not properly torqued with a wrench afterwards. I watch people like a hawk and I'll say something if not done to proper standards. Don't screw with my vehicle. Freaking hack shops
Click to expand...
You can check with a torque wrench the torque sticks are quite accurate. It's common place to use torque sticks. They are each calibrated to a certain torque for standard ranges, mine have the socket built in (80 ft-lbs with a 21mm socket, 100 ft-lbs with a 21mm socket, 147ft-lbs with a 21mm socket, etc.) To say it's hack without testing to see if the accuracy is off is not cool. General procedure is to snug them up using a star pattern, then do final torque also in a star pattern. Also, bear in mind that even a torque wrench can be +/- 5% torque so don't think that everything is perfect.
 
I can vouch for torque sticks being fairly accurate for installing wheels. They still should be checked with a regular torque wrench before returning the car to the road though.
 
Fairly accurate and accurate are 2 different things. Torque wrenches are MUCH more accurate and don't have variables that could affect torque stick torque applied. A proper service ALWAYS included the use of a professional torque wrench. Period.
 
Tchman2016 said:
Fairly accurate and accurate are 2 different things. Torque wrenches are MUCH more accurate and don't have variables that could affect torque stick torque applied. A proper service ALWAYS included the use of a professional torque wrench. Period.
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Correct, however the spec from Mazda is 80-108 ft lbs. So the top spec is 35% higher than the low spec. If Mazda wants accuracy they should be specific to the type of rim, trim level, etc. Subaru says 75 ft.-lbs. for their rims. Toyota is usually 80 ft-lbs. All of these torques have an engineering factor built in, meaning if you over torque by 5% you are ok. Lug nuts are exactly an exact science as they are meant for a fairly high torque. That's not to say I recommend over or under torquing a lug nut, more that using a torque stick isn't going to really change much. I don't know if you are breaking out the digital 3/8" torque wrench set out to the thousandth place for these or what but in the real world when people demand tire rotations be done in 30 mins or less people don't really have the time to check torque by hand and if you believe the average tire place is doing that I can assure you they are not.
 
Tchman2016 said:
Fairly accurate and accurate are 2 different things. Torque wrenches are MUCH more accurate and don't have variables that could affect torque stick torque applied. A proper service ALWAYS included the use of a professional torque wrench. Period.
Click to expand...
Giving a big range of the torque specs only by Mazda, what is the point of using a very accurate torque wrench to a Mazda vehicle?
 
klone121 said:
Correct, however the spec from Mazda is 80-108 ft lbs. So the top spec is 35% higher than the low spec. If Mazda wants accuracy they should be specific to the type of rim, trim level, etc.
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Yes. Mazda uses a big range for all torque specs in the manual, which gives people an impression that they don’t care too much about precision.

klone121 said:
Subaru says 75 ft.-lbs. for their rims. Toyota is usually 80 ft-lbs. All of these torques have an engineering factor built in, meaning if you over torque by 5% you are ok. Lug nuts are exactly an exact science as they are meant for a fairly high torque.
Click to expand...
Agreed. And Mazda is the only car company giving a big range on torque specs. Everybody else gives a single value.

klone121 said:
That's not to say I recommend over or under torquing a lug nut, more that using a torque stick isn't going to really change much.
Click to expand...
Yes, it won’t matter too much for Mazda vehicles as the torque range is pretty wide.

klone121 said:
I don't know if you are breaking out the digital 3/8" torque wrench set out to the thousandth place for these or what but in the real world when people demand tire rotations be done in 30 mins or less people don't really have the time to check torque by hand and if you believe the average tire place is doing that I can assure you they are not.
Click to expand...
Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, my favorite Discount Tire Store does hand-tight the lug nuts with a torque wrench after any tire services. But I still use my torque wrench double-checking the lug nuts after the free tire balancing and rotation as most of time the tech didn’t do a good job on that.
 
Personally I don't really care which method is used, as long as the lug nuts are threaded onto the studs by hand. IMO the biggest issue with using an impact gun is the potential for a careless worker to cross thread the studs while mounting the wheels.

Anyway, it seems this thread has run it's course and OP had all their questions answered. Anyone have anything else related to the topic to add?
 
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