LordWorm build commences...sort of

[LordWorm]

Well, the wedding is over, and thats freed up a lot of cash...So i've decided to treat the car to some new work.


A few people here already know the long term plan, but we'll keep that hush hush for the time being.


Did some routine inspecting of the car the other day, and found some very disturbing stuff. 12 months of very hard drag racing have left all bar the front engine mount destroyed. Reason the front survived is I swapped it out for an AWR mount, but didn't get the rear one in because I couldn't get one of the bolts off... my lack of persistence seems to have been the main reason for the rear, and then the sides letting go. So I've garaged the car and decided to do a bit of work on it.


Got a set of autoexe coilovers with low mileage in the mail the other day - they come off a sport20 and thus need some modification to get them to fit the fwd. The rears lack the tabs to bolt the sway bar up (stuffs me how the sport20 rear bar works...), but that shouldn't be too much of a big deal. Calling my suspension shop tomorrow to get some options. If all goes well i should have them in the car within the fortnight. Very pleased to have found a set, they are absolutely awesome coilovers - Twilightprotege has had a set for a few months now and the ride quality and handling is second to none.
I'll post some pics when i get a chance.

So back to the engine mount issue. In order to get the rear mount off, i am going to have to grind the studs off and drill them out. The nuts have seazed and even with a 6 foot breaker bar i was doing nothing but stripping the hell out of them. So i'll get in there with the dremel and cut them off, drill them out and weld some new high tensile studs to replace them.


In order to make room to work, the intake manifold is going to have to come off, and this is where the fun begins. The new wife has grudgingly accepted me fabricating a new intake manifold. While the manifold is off, i'll send the gasket off to be used as a template for a laser cut flange plate.

Design is going to be a single runner, tuned ram tunnel design. For those unfamiliar with this design, the basic idea is to use reflected pressure waves to boost intake pressure in the runners using Helmholtz theory. Basically when an air charge hits a closed valve, it reflects a pressure wave at the speed of sound back out the intake manifold, which is again reflected when it reaches the opening of ram tunnel. If tuned correctly, and timed just right, when that reflected pressure wave reaches and open intake valve, pressures as high as 7psi at the valve can be achieved. I've got the math on my desk right now, and once i've got the design worked out i'll post up how its all worked out.


In addition, I'm going to take the opportunity to fab up my custom 4-1 race headers. I've got all the pipe work sitting there ready to go (i've had the pipes for over a year now, and haven't been bothered putting it all together) - so its just a case of putting it together and building an exhaust system to suit.


Both manifolds are being designed for the not-so-secret engine rebuild, but should still give a substantial improvement on the stock motor. I'm hoping these additions will give me the power I need to get me below the magic 15 second mark, which will allow me to qualify for the next sport compact series, as they are enforcing far stricter cut offs next year.


In addition, i'm looking at doing an oil filter relocation and sorting out my gauge cluster bits and pieces, as well as doing a battery relocation to the boot (needed to make room for the ram tunnel and pod filter, as well as the cold air box to seal it off from the engine). The wife also has a few requests for some other upgrades so stay tuned.

I'll post some more tomorrow...right now i'm getting the wind up from mandy, so hope you enjoy this little tease

 

[i12drivemyMP5]

I just happen to have a SLS front & a SLS passenger side mount with very little mileage on them that I'd be willing to part with. I'll make you a deal on the set if interested.

 

[LordWorm]

I just happen to have a SLS front & a SLS passenger side mount with very little mileage on them that I'd be willing to part with. I'll make you a deal on the set if interested.

Nah thats ok
I have an awr front (installed) and rear (not installed), and i'm taking my 2 blown mounts to a recondioner to be filled with insanely high duro rubber.

Just got off the phone with my suspension guys... about $160 aud per coilover for a rebuild (the rears need to be rebuilt if they weld the tab on because they need to be totally disassembled) - plus whatever it costs them to do the tabs up...

so looks like its going to cost around $400 aud to get them suitable for my car.... so they are not the great deal i initially thought....shouldn't complain, autoexe coilovers are simply the best available for the car and their brand new cost was significantly higher than $800 aud....

 

[njaremka]

.....

Design is going to be a single runner, tuned ram tunnel design. For those unfamiliar with this design, the basic idea is to use reflected pressure waves to boost intake pressure in the runners using Helmholtz theory. Basically when an air charge hits a closed valve, it reflects a pressure wave at the speed of sound back out the intake manifold, which is again reflected when it reaches the opening of ram tunnel. If tuned correctly, and timed just right, when that reflected pressure wave reaches and open intake valve, pressures as high as 7psi at the valve can be achieved. I've got the math on my desk right now, and once i've got the design worked out i'll post up how its all worked out.

.....

you do know that the stock intake manifold utilizes all that technology, right? the whole VICS thing? thats what that is. "V"ariable "I"nertia "C"harging "S"ystem, or "VICS" for short. and, it might take you a looooong time to come up with something that works better than the stock system, unless you can come up with the volumetric efficiencies of the engine across the rpm range. you'll need those to tune the manifold for the power range that you are looking at. (probably at the upper rpm range?) oh, and get your header done first, because that will change your numbers and make your intake manifold design different. (or not effective anymore)

if i were you, here's how i would attack engine tuning: first, i would pull the engine, build the bottom end for strength and durability. high compression pistons, very lightweight and strong rods, totally balance every moving component attached to the crank. (including the crank and flywheel / clutch) then, with the bottom end out of the way, focus on the head. get the head all ported, polished, bigger valves, stronger springs. then, after the head is ported, take the flow numbers to a cam shop and tell them what kind of power band i want. so, now i have my engine all done. now with the engine done, do some calculations for the header assembly, build a couple of prototypes, head to the dyno and try them out. pick the one that make the most power where i want it, and focus on the intake manifold. the intake manifold should have some nice short fat runners and a thick plenum with built in velocity stacks for better flow. slap a good sized throttle body onto that, with a straight flow intake tube. of course all this is useless without good engine management, so i would have to pick something that will be able to give me the best control over the fuel and ignition. oh, and the ecu will have to be selected before any of the other stuff, so i can make sure all my mods are taking me where i want to go. and, of course, i have now just spent about 5x more than i would have if i had just gone out and bought a turbo system.

sounds like you have quite the project ahead of you - good luck with that, and i look forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[LordWorm]

you do know that the stock intake manifold utilizes all that technology, right? the whole VICS thing? thats what that is. "V"ariable "I"nertia "C"harging "S"ystem, or "VICS" for short. and, it might take you a looooong time to come up with something that works better than the stock system, unless you can come up with the volumetric efficiencies of the engine across the rpm range. you'll need those to tune the manifold for the power range that you are looking at. (probably at the upper rpm range?) oh, and get your header done first, because that will change your numbers and make your intake manifold design different. (or not effective anymore)

if i were you, here's how i would attack engine tuning: first, i would pull the engine, build the bottom end for strength and durability. high compression pistons, very lightweight and strong rods, totally balance every moving component attached to the crank. (including the crank and flywheel / clutch) then, with the bottom end out of the way, focus on the head. get the head all ported, polished, bigger valves, stronger springs. then, after the head is ported, take the flow numbers to a cam shop and tell them what kind of power band i want. so, now i have my engine all done. now with the engine done, do some calculations for the header assembly, build a couple of prototypes, head to the dyno and try them out. pick the one that make the most power where i want it, and focus on the intake manifold. the intake manifold should have some nice short fat runners and a thick plenum with built in velocity stacks for better flow. slap a good sized throttle body onto that, with a straight flow intake tube. of course all this is useless without good engine management, so i would have to pick something that will be able to give me the best control over the fuel and ignition. oh, and the ecu will have to be selected before any of the other stuff, so i can make sure all my mods are taking me where i want to go. and, of course, i have now just spent about 5x more than i would have if i had just gone out and bought a turbo system.

sounds like you have quite the project ahead of you - good luck with that, and i look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Yes the stock intake uses helmholtz, but does not ram charge the intake. The runners are not optimum length for it to start with. I am also well aware of what VICS is, and why it BARELY works at best (its a really weak attempt a duel runner intake manifold - The kick it gives you is barely enough to register).

Its all mathematics. Volumetric effeciency doesn't even come into the design of the intake manifold until you start playing with plenum volumes and the actual size of the ram tunnel and throttle body. Both these parts of the manifold will need to go through several revisions to get it just right, but working out the runner length to achieve ram charging (which will occur at more than one point, but will be tuned to occur with the strongest, most powerful kick at nearing peak RPM) its just a function of the speed of sound, and tuning the runner length so a pressure wave reaches the valve just after it opens.

Runner length calculation is as follows:

L = ((EVCD * 2.5 * V * 2) / (rpm * RV)) - (D/2)

where EVCD is the effective valve closed duration
RV is reflective value (number of reflections before the surge finds an open valve, useful for shortening runners as a compromise for power if you don't have room)
V is pressure wave speed
and D = runner diameter

When you start getting into plenum design and ram tunnel design, and throttle body selection, V.E. becomes important. The manifold needs to be designed such that you can easilly "replenum" the thing to dial in maximum power as the build goes forward.

You're also a bit off with "short fat, large plennum, big throttle body". Infact, it is (as a general rule) almost always better to run long narrow runners, to maintain velocity. Obviously not too narrow, else you won't get any flow. The calcultions on throttlebody size are also indicating to me that a slightly SMALLER throttlebody is in order. Velocity stacks don't improve flow, they improve velocity. Not all is what it seems - and there are plenty of missconceptions about all this kind of stuff.

Headers will go on at the same time. These are long runner, 4-1 race headers with a merge collector, tuned to achieve maximum scavenging at exactly the same time as the intake manifold will provide its strongest reflective pressure wave (i'm tuning for reflection 2 to keep the runner length reasonable). Theres no real need to "prototype" the headers. you can design them using engineering equations, and get them right, first time - every time. Its not a black art as some would have you believe.

As for building the engine: the engineering requirements of the full engine rebuild (which have been planned out already) are such that at the moment it is cost prohibative to do it. The header and intake manifold are being designed with this build in mind, but will provide suitable power gains on the stock bottom end. RPM is the only issue - furtherest I can take it is 7000rpm at the moment which is the limiting factor on an atmo 4 banger. Head needs to be completely built at the same time as the engine, due to the extreme nature of the alterations to the motor that are planned. As for cams, already got some big mofo twiggy sticks in there.

Engine management - already run a microtech LT10S with X4 and monster bosch coils. I don't think this is an issue.

As for the turbo comment - yeah i could have turboed the car. Hell for what i've ALREADY spent, i could probably have had the car boosted. But I wouldn't be much of an NA tech mod if I went and did that now, would I? ultimate goal is to go well north of 200hp without any power adders on the track - Now that might sound ambitous, but just shy of 200 has been done before, and that was nowhere near as far as you can go - if you were privy to my engine build plans you'd see where i'm coming from. I would also like to be the first NA street driven FSDE into the 13s - then i'll hit it with water meth injection and see where it takes me. The cars a streeter, and turbo kits cost a buttload in insurance costs.

I'm not against turboing things - i also have a turbo drag car in the pipelines...meth burning 8 second beast. But I don't have to worry about insurance on that thing.

 

[njaremka]

I am also well aware of what VICS is, and why it BARELY works at best (its a really weak attempt a duel runner intake manifold - The kick it gives you is barely enough to register).

well, you are wrong on your understanding of what the VICS system is - it is NOT meant to be a dual runner manifold, but a resonance chamber, but i digress....

sounds like you have all your ducks in a row. i hope you have fun with your build.

 

[LordWorm]

well, you are wrong on your understanding of what the VICS system is - it is NOT meant to be a dual runner manifold, but a resonance chamber, but i digress....

sounds like you have all your ducks in a row. i hope you have fun with your build.

resonance chamber is probably a better way of describing it - but its been done to simulate a dual runner manifold.

and yeah, ducks are all in a row loads of research has gone into this (i've been researching the various aspects for over a year now....) - and i've got a pile of papers here with the equations, projections and designs all layed out infront of me....believe me, some of it flies in the face of common sense, and common thinking - but every reputable paper i get on the various theories seem to back up what i've worked out....i guess only time will tell... could blow a hell of a lot of cash for not quite the gains i expected....but thats modding for you!

 

[Kooldino]

Cool idea. I've been toying with some similar stuff.

But the stock VICS system? LOL @ that. I had it flowbenched before experimenting with intake manifolds. VICS is pretty terrible.

 

[njaremka]

Cool idea. I've been toying with some similar stuff.

But the stock VICS system? LOL @ that. I had it flowbenched before experimenting with intake manifolds. VICS is pretty terrible.

the VICS system wasn't meant for flow, it was designed for resonance - you won't see ANY change on a flow bench.

 

[Kooldino]

the VICS system wasn't meant for flow, it was designed for resonance - you won't see ANY change on a flow bench.

Actually, you do. Whether the chamber is closed or not has an impact on flow numbers. Ditto on the dyno.

 

[njaremka]

i agree with seeing an effect on the dyno, but i'm not convinced you'll see that big of a difference on a flow bench - unless your flow bench can create pressure waves inside the manifold. the whole vics system was designed to take advantage of the resonance pressure waves inside the manifold from the inertia of the air rushing in, and bouncing back after the intake valve closes. that pressure then bounces back from inside the manifold and "pressurizes" the next incoming intake charge. by utilizing two different resonance chambers (the main plenum, and the vics chamber) mazda has effectively "tuned" the manifold for two different power bands, and a wider torque curve.

 

[Kooldino]

i agree with seeing an effect on the dyno, but i'm not convinced you'll see that big of a difference on a flow bench -

the VICS system wasn't meant for flow, it was designed for resonance - you won't see ANY change on a flow bench.

So we went from ANY to "not that big of a difference". lol.

Again, I told you, this happened on a flowbench. There was a reasonable difference in flow. Not sure why you insist on arguing with the test results.

unless your flow bench can create pressure waves inside the manifold. the whole vics system was designed to take advantage of the resonance pressure waves inside the manifold from the inertia of the air rushing in, and bouncing back after the intake valve closes. that pressure then bounces back from inside the manifold and "pressurizes" the next incoming intake charge. by utilizing two different resonance chambers (the main plenum, and the vics chamber) mazda has effectively "tuned" the manifold for two different power bands, and a wider torque curve.

Yet, it still flows less and makes less power than a single runner manifold.

 

[njaremka]

whatever

 

[mhrebin]

i can smell what the rock is cooking....

 

[njaremka]

VICS is pretty terrible.

looks like the VICS is doing something - http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113938

...taken from here - http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123679380

 

[DeadGeneration]

subscribe. I think all the N/A tuning is cool. But you can go out and buy a beat up junker that will run quicker on stock parts.

 

[Kooldino]

whatever

...ok.

 

[LordWorm]

Ok guys settle down or there'll be some yellow cards handed out.

njaremka: IF vics is creating a strong resonance hit to force more air through, the manifold MUST be able to flow to allow the additional volume of air. You are also changing the geometry of the manifold by opening or closing the butterflies. ANY - even a slight - change in geometry will be picked up on a flow bench...

 

[Kooldino]

looks like the VICS is doing something - http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113938

...taken from here - http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123679380

I didn't bother clicking on the links, but like I said, VICS is doing something, according to the flow bench AND dynos with it on vs off. But regardless, the stock intake manis are weak, and even with the VICS "saving the day" (sarcasm), it's still garbage.

 

[Kooldino]

IF vics is creating a strong resonance hit to force more air through, the manifold MUST be able to flow to allow the additional volume of air. You are also changing the geometry of the manifold by opening or closing the butterflies. ANY - even a slight - change in geometry will be picked up on a flow bench...

I'll buy that explanation. My flowbench results reflect that.