Intake Manifold Modifications.....

[BlkZoomZoom]

looks good.

 

[flat_black]

Okay, well, here's the sketch of my idea. It looks stupid, but you get the basic idea. *yawns* I'll be doing some of the CAD work shortly! Hey, Turf, I have a need for something electronic in nature. Mind if I drop you a PM with an idea I had?

Edit: Uugh... Maybe I should attach the file, huh? Duuuuh.

 

[TurfBurn]

Definitely go ahead and shoot me an idea!

 

[flat_black]

Wow... That was a lot harder than I imagined it being! Whew! Anyway, I have THE FLANGE ONLY all done up in Solidworks, and can DXF it if you want, DSM, so it can be cut by a CAM machine.

There are a shitload of measurments taken here, too! Let me know how to get it to you, and you too, Turf, if you want it.

I'm gonna drop you (TurfBurn) a PM in one sec, too, with my idea. =)

 

[TurfBurn]

Should have told me you needed that flange. I have a dxf/solidworks model that is dead accurate for the gasket which pretty well reflects the flange LOL...

 

[flat_black]

D'oh! x.x Hindsight is 20/20! Ahh, well. =) I needed to do this up to start working on the whole manifold project anyway. Hehee. =) We'll see how far I get with it tomorrow!

 

[peepsalot]

Hey, I was reading about intake runners and whatnot today, and I had an idea. Would it be possible to change the rpm of when the vics switches over? It seems like this would be good for FI, since the air being used is compressed, and therefore the pressure waves are traveling at a different speed than the intake manifold was originally tuned for. I haven't done any calculations yet, but it seems like a cool idea. What do you guys think?

 

[TurfBurn]

Easily done

I could develop a circuit for you guys most likely as well if you wanted it. But MSD also has something that does that out already, triggers and output at a certain rpm... you just need that to trigger the solenoid and you are set.

 

[peepsalot]

I guess the big question is if it would make a difference at all. I can't seem to find an equation for the speed of sound in air at differing pressures, so I don't even know if the change would be significant enough to warrant a new rpm setting for VICS. Any scientists around that could help with this?

 

[TurfBurn]

look for speed of sound in different density fluids... that I think matters more... I'll poke around... It would probably be something that would have to be dyno determined.

apparently it is independent of pressure... depends on temperature though

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/souspe3.html

whoops, but looking forward desnity does matter (which fits my intuition)

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/adiabc.html#c1

calculate the appropriate adiabatic and use the equation and you'll be set.

 

[Kooldino]

About time someone is looking into getting an intake mani done.

I tried myself, but my guy is years behind in work.

Then Wagner was supposed to make one like a year ago...don't know what happened w/ that...

 

[TurfBurn]

I may consider doing it through NSN as well, actually fabbing a complete intake from scratch... we'll see. I have to finish my other projects for NSN first.

 

[MSP Chris]

God I can say I know alot but you lost me there, I had to read that a couple times to grasp what you where talking about..lol

 

[RyanJayG]

Should have told me you needed that flange. I have a dxf/solidworks model that is dead accurate for the gasket which pretty well reflects the flange LOL...

wow, you use solidworks too? such a kick ass program... I've modeled all kinds of stuff for work on it... it rocks

 

[flat_black]

Hell yeah, it rocks. =)

 

[twilightprotege]

peeps - yes that would work, and i beleive it has been done in europe (user on here JustMe) with a VTEC controller. would it be worth it? well that depends, but easy to work out.

get a dyno done with the VICS shut all the time, then get one with it open. overlap the findings and when the VICS open makes more power, have it open about 100rpm before the equal point. easy

 

[KzA]

hmm..can anyone send me a copy of this solidworks program? It seems like it would be something really cool to get accuianted(sp wow) with...

You know..this thread has really got me thinking..

With all of the extremely intelligent people on this board(including those very experienced with automotive engineering and the large number of mechanical engineers), why don't we use the forum as a collaborative effort to come up with some parts? I mean, if people worked together here to come up with a really good intake manifold, why couldnt we do it for exhaust manifolds, heads, etc?

 

[TurfBurn]

hmm..can anyone send me a copy of this solidworks program? It seems like it would be something really cool to get accuianted(sp wow) with...

it costs 5-8 thousand... but you can "get" it from certain "places"

You know..this thread has really got me thinking..

With all of the extremely intelligent people on this board(including those very experienced with automotive engineering and the large number of mechanical engineers), why don't we use the forum as a collaborative effort to come up with some parts? I mean, if people worked together here to come up with a really good intake manifold, why couldnt we do it for exhaust manifolds, heads, etc?

The shear cost of tooling is where it becomes prohibitive... we could likely design it as a community... but a casting tool for a head would be well over 200k most likely. There is a lot of trial and error and massive amounts of money in a lot of it. We can improve some parts here and there... sure, but overall we'd have a hard time doing so for things like the head. Mani's are one thing... critical engine structure is another.

I'm in the process of finding a way to get my head annealed to T6 levels for massively improved strength... I'll update as I can.

 

[KzA]

it costs 5-8 thousand... but you can "get" it from certain "places"


The shear cost of tooling is where it becomes prohibitive... we could likely design it as a community... but a casting tool for a head would be well over 200k most likely. There is a lot of trial and error and massive amounts of money in a lot of it. We can improve some parts here and there... sure, but overall we'd have a hard time doing so for things like the head. Mani's are one thing... critical engine structure is another.

I'm in the process of finding a way to get my head annealed to T6 levels for massively improved strength... I'll update as I can.

LOL well if anyone knows of any places feel free to PM me about it..

The head thing was just an example..I just thought it would be cool to have the more intelligent of the forums come together in that sort of way..I mean, we all b**** about not having an aftermarket intake mani, and now people are starting to CAD them..

Personally, I am an undergraduate ME..Im a freshman, so my amount of knowledge is small to say the least, but I love this stuff..I just think it would be really cool to tap some of the minds the browse around here for something useful for the mazdas

 

[peepsalot]

peeps - yes that would work, and i beleive it has been done in europe (user on here JustMe) with a VTEC controller. would it be worth it? well that depends, but easy to work out.

get a dyno done with the VICS shut all the time, then get one with it open. overlap the findings and when the VICS open makes more power, have it open about 100rpm before the equal point. easy

Good point, at first I was thinking you would have to do trial and error with different settings, but your method would obviously be the most efficient. I wonder if mazda did this for the msp, or if they kept the same shift point from the other protege models. I think it is a really cool idea, but it is mostly just a pipe dream for me since I don't have the money to be spending on dyno's and rpm based solenoid controllers for something that may only give negligable gains if any. So... I know some of you guys on here have the money, come on, take one for the team and be a guinea pig. (evil)