Installing my Goldlines and Illuminas this weekend. w00t!

[MrDiggler]

Damn I wish someone had told me something about whether I should have rear bump stops. I'm home from the game and have to put the rear struts in so I can get to work in the morning. They're going in without stops since I didn't have any back there to begin with.

Brian, I sent you a PM about the pillow mounts.

 

[CustomMSP]

you definitely want bumpstops in there. I'm pretty sure that mine have bumpstops. I'll check for you tomorrow.

 

[MrDiggler]

Thanks, because I'm done for the night anyway. When I went to tighten the first of my rear struts, the big washer with the D shaped hole stripped and the shaft just spins inside it. Now I have to get up at the crack of dawn and take my wife to work so I'll have a car tomorrow. I'll have to find a replacement or get this one to a machine shop for a fix. My f-in luck.

*update* Weirdness. The washer is only slightly rounded out, but there's one point on the strut threads where it will slip and turn. It's barely boogered the threads at that point, so I'm going to have the same problem on reassembly. The damn thing just doesn't fit as snug as it needs to. I'm either going to get a new one or use a punch to swell the metal a bit around the flat side of the hole. Arrgghh.

 

[Jaysanooch]

READ THIS PLEASE​

I noticed that the Paint Dots on your Pillow mount are in the wrong place. You have just induced alot of camber in the struts for nothing.. You will never be able to get a good alignment. Jack up the car and undo the 4 bolts that support the mount. Push down and rotate the pillow mount until they point towards the rear outside of the car respectfully. So the Passenger side dot faces back and to the passenger side mirror. and the drivers side faces back and the drivers side mirror.

Ya very important....I never thanked you Brian but that solved my alignment troubles. I bought my car new and my car came with the driver side dot pointing towards the headlight. This after many visits to the dealer and many alignments, I gave up. I learned this... made the adjustement and problem solved...a pleasure to drive now! So thanks Brian...big time!

 

[Bala]

Thanks, because I'm done for the night anyway. When I went to tighten the first of my rear struts, the big washer with the D shaped hole stripped and the shaft just spins inside it. Now I have to get up at the crack of dawn and take my wife to work so I'll have a car tomorrow. I'll have to find a replacement or get this one to a machine shop for a fix. My f-in luck.

*update* Weirdness. The washer is only slightly rounded out, but there's one point on the strut threads where it will slip and turn. It's barely boogered the threads at that point, so I'm going to have the same problem on reassembly. The damn thing just doesn't fit as snug as it needs to. I'm either going to get a new one or use a punch to swell the metal a bit around the flat side of the hole. Arrgghh.

I've swapped out my stock MSP struts with Illuminas and may have a few pointers here: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2656315&postcount=9
Also, the center nut that comes with the Illuminas will not allow full tightening of the rear assembly. The OEM nut has more material below the threaded portion, but since it sounds like your OEM suspension has previously been monkeyed with, who knows whats on there - washers can do the trick. The OEM MSP bumpstops are the same all around and should definately be on there ... but I'll tell you this; they may never see action lol! Especially with the AXR brackets going on there. I get the most suspension compression in my P5 when I'm entering steep off-camber driveways. With the MSP, the car simply goes into 3-wheel mode. If the car did not have the LSD up front, I'd be getting stuck a lot as the front can lift a tire coming out of the same driveways. My P5 has Tokico HP's and Espelirs and my MSP has Tokico Illuminas with Espelirs (as well as the AXR brackets).

Protege bump stops

 

[MrDiggler]

Thanks Bala. I couldn't find that thread of yours last night. Great idea putting some carpet down in the garage. I need to do that. Much easier on the knees and the parts. That pic of the bump stops helps a bunch too. Haven't seen that before. All that's left of my front stops is little more than the center third. They've been cut on both ends.

Oh, and of course the dealer will have to order all of the strut parts I need, including the rear bump stops. I'm going to hit the parts store on the way home and see if I can't come away with something to use on the rears for now. Those and fixing the big washer would at least get Sparky back on the road. I'll be pulling everything out again soon and installing new spring isolators and dust boots anyway.

*edit* Well, no go on bump stops. No parts store or dealer in town had any for any vehicle. What BS. I'm not going to run my Illuminas on lowering springs without bump stops in there, so I'm forced to reinstall my factory rear setup until I get the parts I need.

 

[MrDiggler]

It's all back together. I reinstalled the factory rear setup so I can get to work. I just got back from a 10 minute test drive with some medium speed corners, and right now I'm underwhelmed with this combo in the front. Turn-in doesn't seem as crisp as before and the stiffer ride is going to take some getting used to. The Illuminas are only on "2".
I know I really won't be able to tell until I get the rears put in and get a good alignment, so I'm crossing my fingers that things get better. Man, the front is low though. Thankfully my car has always ridden low in the back (compared to other MSP's I've seen) or it would look pretty weird.
Oh, one more piece of weirdness, I didn't have to use the spring compressor to get my stock rears put back together. I had 1/2" of thread sticking out.

 

[Bala]

It's all back together. I reinstalled the factory rear setup so I can get to work. I just got back from a 10 minute test drive with some medium speed corners, and right now I'm underwhelmed with this combo in the front. Turn-in doesn't seem as crisp as before and the stiffer ride is going to take some getting used to. The Illuminas are only on "2".

It's counter-intuitive, but things will probably get less bouncy and stiff as you work your way towards the 5 setting. The best dampening setup will probably be 4 (or 3)

I know I really won't be able to tell until I get the rears put in and get a good alignment, so I'm crossing my fingers that things get better.

A good alignment really ties it all together. Bring the Mazdaspeed alignment specs with you to the shop and "encourage" the tech to really nail it. If you don't have the Mazdaspeed specific specs, shoot me a pm.

Man, the front is low though. Thankfully my car has always ridden low in the back (compared to other MSP's I've seen) or it would look pretty weird. Oh, one more piece of weirdness, I didn't have to use the spring compressor to get my stock rears put back together. I had 1/2" of thread sticking out.

Yeah, not needing the compressor in the rear threw me off as well, but I was in a fit of rage when I found out. I had just perfectly assembled the struts, went to install the pasenger side and reliezed that I had installed the(L&R) strut hats on the wrong struts. So I pulled them apart again a rebuilt them only to find that there was about 3/8" of slop in the assembly due to the supplied center nut not snugging thing down all the way. F#$K! - I kicked my spring compressors across the floor (good thing I have carpet ) and threw all my weight on top of the strut and wrenched the center nut off and ... nothing. At least the final assembly cheered me up.

 

[MrDiggler]

Lol, good thing you didn't get a strut hat through the forehead!
I see what you mean about the struts. Things may be underdamped right now, but it's really not as bouncy as it is stiff and a bit harsh compared to my stockers. I'm holding off final judgement until I get the alignment fixed, but I'm still not happy with the steering feel. It's lost that perfectly linear feel that I'm used to...almost as if someone snuck in and put a variable ratio rack in it. On-center feel is fine, but a little ways out it seems to turn faster and feels funny. I'm hoping that's a camber/alignment issue. I'm willing to sacrifice a tiny bit on the ride quality, but I won't sacrifice one bit of the incredible steering feel that made me fall in love with driving the MSP.

 

[srd555]

Lol, good thing you didn't get a strut hat through the forehead!
I see what you mean about the struts. Things may be underdamped right now, but it's really not as bouncy as it is stiff and a bit harsh compared to my stockers. I'm holding off final judgement until I get the alignment fixed, but I'm still not happy with the steering feel. It's lost that perfectly linear feel that I'm used to...almost as if someone snuck in and put a variable ratio rack in it. On-center feel is fine, but a little ways out it seems to turn faster and feels funny. I'm hoping that's a camber/alignment issue. I'm willing to sacrifice a tiny bit on the ride quality, but I won't sacrifice one bit of the incredible steering feel that made me fall in love with driving the MSP.

This sums up what I felt with the Sportlines and illuminas. I took out some of the caster (turned the paint dot back towards the rear view mirrors)which helped with that variable rack feel. I tried setting 3 in the front and rear but it was too stiff on the front and did not want to turn in also skipped in corners.

The setup I was happiest with was 2 in the front (had to cut the front bump stops in half to get some travel) and 4 in the rear. I topped it of with 36 psi in the front tires and 30 psi in the rear. With this I was able to turn in and follow through the perfect line in a corner.

But since I am a piky basterd I took them of and went with the KW coilovers.

 

[CustomMSP]

Lol, good thing you didn't get a strut hat through the forehead!
I see what you mean about the struts. Things may be underdamped right now, but it's really not as bouncy as it is stiff and a bit harsh compared to my stockers. I'm holding off final judgement until I get the alignment fixed, but I'm still not happy with the steering feel. It's lost that perfectly linear feel that I'm used to...almost as if someone snuck in and put a variable ratio rack in it. On-center feel is fine, but a little ways out it seems to turn faster and feels funny. I'm hoping that's a camber/alignment issue. I'm willing to sacrifice a tiny bit on the ride quality, but I won't sacrifice one bit of the incredible steering feel that made me fall in love with driving the MSP.

Don't worry man, you just need an alignment and it'll be just like stock. You might want to set the toe to 0 all around if you want a quicker steering response.

 

[MrDiggler]

I noticed that the Paint Dots on your Pillow mount are in the wrong place. You have just induced alot of camber in the struts for nothing.. You will never be able to get a good alignment. Jack up the car and undo the 4 bolts that support the mount. Push down and rotate the pillow mount until they point towards the rear outside of the car respectfully. So the Passenger side dot faces back and to the passenger side mirror. and the drivers side faces back and the drivers side mirror.

I did some more research on the various positions of the yellow dots on the strut mounts. Delsing and several individuals were in agreement on the rear/out being the stock position but forward/out being the best for overall performance. According to them, forward/out gives same neg. camber but more caster. My pass. side was already this way, so I rotated the driver's side to match and will take it for an alignment first thing tomorrow.

On the rotation of those mounts- Thankfully I found some info on Delsing's site about the best way to do this. Get the wheels off the ground, remove them, disconnect the front sway endlink at the strut and then the mount is relatively easy to drop and rotate. If you don't disconnect the endlink (and I didn't at first), dropping the strut can preload the swaybar, and if you get the strut off to one side inside the strut tower it can bind up pretty tight in there. Some peeps can successfully pull off the mount rotation without taking a wheel off or the endlink loose, but I won't try it again.

Oh, and attached is a pic showing the drop in the front, but the overall effect is much greater when standing farther back from the car. It's crazy low compared to stock. I can't get one finger in there unless it's angled up. I also found out that my rear driver's side lip has been rolled, but my rear pass. side has not. It's amazing to me that so much weird stuff was done to a car that I bought with 8k miles on it. The previous owner evidently did screw around with the suspension, which would explain my missing rear bump stops. I'm going to roll the other lip before putting on the rear Illumina and Goldline combo. I'm already worried that the Illumina's lower spring perch and the drop from the springs will combine to have the rear tucked like a BMW.

 

[CustomMSP]

Looks good man! I miss the drop of the Goldlines.

 

[jmv]

that does look good. If the jury comes back good after getting an alignment, i think i'm getting me some goldlines!!!

 

[MrDiggler]

Got my alignment today, and also turned the front Illuminas up to 3 (Rear still aren't on). It seems some better, but my steering still doesn't feel like it used to. The front also feels considerably stiffer over bumps than before, and I feel like I'm getting more bump steer than before. Certain streches of concrete highway with slight undulations drive me nuts now b/c the car is following the road more closely than I'd care for it to. Maybe I'll adjust to it, and maybe things will improve more when the rear setup goes on. Right now the nose is pitched enough downward I can sense the difference while driving. This must be what SRT-4 drivers feel like, lol. BTW, it rained all day here and I didn't feel like pushing it. If it's dry tomorrow I'll hit some curves and report back.

I wanted the tech to ditch the toe, and he did. We had a problem getting the caster balanced L to R, with the L being .6 more than the right. I suggested to the tech to turn the left strut mount back to the factory setting (dot to outside rear instead of outside front) and it worked out great. My car must be "out" a bit from the hit it took before I bought it. FWIW, here's the specs:

Left (Previous in parentheses)

Camber (-1.0) -0.9
Caster (2.4) 1.8
Toe (-.06) .01

Right

Camber (-0.8) -0.8
Caster (1.8) 1.7
Toe (-.09) -.01

 

[yashart_mp3]

Do you have any pics of the entire strut assembly? Like a blown apart view of everything?

 

[lisevolution]

I know what you mean about the steering feel. I definitely need to get my alignment done as I have a dead on center feel and much less sensitivity since I installed my Sprint springs on the stock struts. I am probaby going to have to switch to the Illumina's in the very near future as those springs with the stock struts equal a sometimes bouncy ride. I like the appearance factor however as it dropped the car 2" all around and my rear is tucked like a BMW...

 

[MrDiggler]

Do you have any pics of the entire strut assembly? Like a blown apart view of everything?

Got one blown apart at this moment. Will edit and post some pics for you tonight or in the morning. It will be a rear since the fronts are already done.

 

[low_psi]

The front is stiffer over bumps because the compression dampening on setting 3 is probably more than the stock HPs. The wandering is most likely due to zeroing your toe. With 0 toe all around and max camber via stock tip mounts, my car wanders quite a bit.

 

[MrDiggler]

I wish I'd known zeroing the toe could have negative consequences.