redrocketz
Member
You can get the dp out/in without removing crossbraces but it will be harder. I would get the bung installed on the test pipe personally but anywhere really works.
Installing a CP-E Downpipe...any advice? Tools Needed??
- Thread starter AutoXRacer
- Start date
You can get the dp out/in without removing crossbraces but it will be harder. I would get the bung installed on the test pipe personally but anywhere really works.
AutoXRacer
Member
After talking with PG seems like you reuse the factory metal gasket thats between the tubo outlet and DP. I called my Mazda parts supplier, the gasket costs $82.70 at your local Mazda dealer!!!! Ouch, even with my connection I could only get it for $50...
I talked to a tech at Mazda and he said I should be able to reuse the gasket with no problems...no leaks.
Here goes... R&R starts now... See you guys in 5-12 hours.... I'm a little slow and anal when it comes to working on cars... (lol2)
I talked to a tech at Mazda and he said I should be able to reuse the gasket with no problems...no leaks.
Here goes... R&R starts now... See you guys in 5-12 hours.... I'm a little slow and anal when it comes to working on cars... (lol2)
AutoXRacer
Member
Man, those O2 sensors are a #$$%%(rant)(argh)... Yeah, I messed up the threads on the primary O2 sensor...its not too bad though...(stooges)
I'll work it in the DP slowly (loosening and tightening) with lots of lube!!!(naughty)
I kind of messed up documenting the job... I got so involved that I forgot to take pictures during the removal of the stock DP...(hand)
But you know, the 5 bolts that attach the stock DP to the turbo outlet aren't bad to reach...all you need are a couple of wobble adapters, extensions, and a little penetrating oil... Easy!! (2thumbs)
I was checking out the high-flow cat in the CP-E DP and its not what I expected...I thought it was a wide spaced honey comb type thing...it looks like the stock cat except its a metal core... I took pictures which I'll post later...
OK, lunch break over...
I'll work it in the DP slowly (loosening and tightening) with lots of lube!!!(naughty)
I kind of messed up documenting the job... I got so involved that I forgot to take pictures during the removal of the stock DP...(hand)
But you know, the 5 bolts that attach the stock DP to the turbo outlet aren't bad to reach...all you need are a couple of wobble adapters, extensions, and a little penetrating oil... Easy!! (2thumbs)
I was checking out the high-flow cat in the CP-E DP and its not what I expected...I thought it was a wide spaced honey comb type thing...it looks like the stock cat except its a metal core... I took pictures which I'll post later...
OK, lunch break over...
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AutoXRacer
Member
Well, finally finished!!! I started at 9am and ended at 6:00pm.
Overall an easy but lengthy job...
Car started normal... I've now got a little popping in the exhaust on low rpms 1K-3K during decel. I haven't taken it out yet, I just let it idle for a few minutes to make sure I had no leaks, CELs, etc...
I did notice my exhaust stinks; I now have a headache!!! I thought getting the DP with the cat would not make my exhaust smell... Its a sharp pungent smell. Anyway, time for a show and a test drive...
Overall an easy but lengthy job...
Car started normal... I've now got a little popping in the exhaust on low rpms 1K-3K during decel. I haven't taken it out yet, I just let it idle for a few minutes to make sure I had no leaks, CELs, etc...
I did notice my exhaust stinks; I now have a headache!!! I thought getting the DP with the cat would not make my exhaust smell... Its a sharp pungent smell. Anyway, time for a show and a test drive...
Powerslave
Banned
- :
- mps 3
cool i wish i wasn't getting ready to leave work...
AutoXRacer
Member
Haven't gone test driving yet... (2lol)
One thing I noticed is that the CP-E catted DP seems a little short in length. The rubber hangers don't support the DP; see picture below.
Plus when I bolted everything up...the DP to the cat-back, it pulled the cat-back towards the DP...
(huh)
I'm going to email CP-E and see if this is a normal condition...
One thing I noticed is that the CP-E catted DP seems a little short in length. The rubber hangers don't support the DP; see picture below.
Plus when I bolted everything up...the DP to the cat-back, it pulled the cat-back towards the DP...
(huh)
I'm going to email CP-E and see if this is a normal condition...
AutoXRacer
Member
Here are the pictures of the stock cat:
Here is the CP-E catted DP (its side angle shot, this is looking through the O2 bung; couldn't get a better shot):
I thought the high-flow cat was going to have wider spaced honey comb... Will the cat flow better than the stocker...?
Here is the CP-E catted DP (its side angle shot, this is looking through the O2 bung; couldn't get a better shot):
I thought the high-flow cat was going to have wider spaced honey comb... Will the cat flow better than the stocker...?
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The smell should go away or atleast be greatly reduced once the cat and exhaust break in a little. As far as the hi-flow cat is concerned, the mesh looks similar, but I'm betting that the overall length of the mesh is less than stock. Let us know how you like the set-up. My CPE TBE is sitting in the garage until spring.
AutoXRacer
Member
I test drove the car last night for 25 miles...round trip from my house to Chipotle...(lol2)
Anyway, initially the car felt bogged down, like timing was all off, and something clogging the exhaust or intake...(scratch)
Then it started to get a little better 8 miles down the road; I noticed that now the car looses traction on 3rd gear like it does in 2nd gear at WOT. Though the really disappointing thing is that with the stock DP, the engine would burst into power, pull really hard...I haven't felt that yet with the CP-E DP...(scratch) (which I thought was going to pull even harder)
I'm wondering if its the same case as when I installed headers into my Miata. The stock setup had a slight power delay where the power would build up and then bang there it was...with the headers you did not feel that, power was instant, so you had a reduced feeling of output cause it was more gradual...
This is how the Speed3 is feeling... I punch it on 1st and its pretty much wheel spin, latter half of 2nd is wheel spin, and latter half of 3rd is wheel spin also, but I don't feel the pull it had when stock...
I'm going to run a few errands today and continue feeling out the car...maybe the computer needs to acclimate to the new parts since I disconnected the battery...?
(dunno)(huh)
Another issue I have with the CP-E DP is the flange (see pictures below):
I don't understand why is was left unfinished like that; see the space/crevice between the flange and the pipe...?
Will this affect flow in any way? (huh)
I know the header I bought for my Miata had the same issue at the flange also...according to Racing Beat, it did not have any ill affects...
Regarding the welds and exterior of the DP is gorgeous...welds look like smeared butter and is definitely high quality looking, though for the money I paid $685, I would have thought they would finished (smoothed out) the inside of the flange area...
Anyway, initially the car felt bogged down, like timing was all off, and something clogging the exhaust or intake...(scratch)
Then it started to get a little better 8 miles down the road; I noticed that now the car looses traction on 3rd gear like it does in 2nd gear at WOT. Though the really disappointing thing is that with the stock DP, the engine would burst into power, pull really hard...I haven't felt that yet with the CP-E DP...(scratch) (which I thought was going to pull even harder)
I'm wondering if its the same case as when I installed headers into my Miata. The stock setup had a slight power delay where the power would build up and then bang there it was...with the headers you did not feel that, power was instant, so you had a reduced feeling of output cause it was more gradual...
This is how the Speed3 is feeling... I punch it on 1st and its pretty much wheel spin, latter half of 2nd is wheel spin, and latter half of 3rd is wheel spin also, but I don't feel the pull it had when stock...
I'm going to run a few errands today and continue feeling out the car...maybe the computer needs to acclimate to the new parts since I disconnected the battery...?
(dunno)(huh)
Another issue I have with the CP-E DP is the flange (see pictures below):
I don't understand why is was left unfinished like that; see the space/crevice between the flange and the pipe...?
Will this affect flow in any way? (huh)
I know the header I bought for my Miata had the same issue at the flange also...according to Racing Beat, it did not have any ill affects...
Regarding the welds and exterior of the DP is gorgeous...welds look like smeared butter and is definitely high quality looking, though for the money I paid $685, I would have thought they would finished (smoothed out) the inside of the flange area...
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Powerslave
Banned
- :
- mps 3
you should be making alot more power, some times the seat of the pants dyno is misleading, i have noticed when i dissconect the battery the car seems not drive the same for like 20 minutes, that could be in my seat of the pants dyno,... but it seams after about 30 minutes the car starts to get back to its old self..
knowledge007
Banned
Look, just a little insight. BUt you have a 3" DP going into a little less than a 2" and half pipe. Yes you should be getting some horsepower none the less but it is going to feel a little weird at first. YOu need to open everything up.
www.cp-e.com
Member
Congratulations on your new addition!! (drinks)
I wanted to answer a few of your questions, and if you have more let me know. You're welcome to call us (301-576-6142) or shoot me a PM.
The inside of the bellmouth is partially unfinished because that surface isn't visible once installed, and those seams do not affect flow. As meha11 said, finishing the inside of that pipe would add a lot of labor to the downpipe, which would surely increase the cost of the pipe even further. But rest assured that it will not negatively affect performance, and the dynos on our website came from a pipe that was built using the exact same fabrication methods.
The hangers are actually supposed to be sitting back like that. The reason they're like that is because the cat and the flex pipe are so large (long). If you were to make the hangers any longer, then you actually wouldn't have enough clearance to get the pipe into the underside of the car. Making the cat and flex pipe as large as possible were absolute necessities in order for the pipe to survive the life of the vehicle (part of the reason why we can offer a lifetime warranty on it), whereas the hanger placement is much less critical. Despite the position of the hangers, they'll provide plenty of support for the pipe.
As I said before, please do give us a call if you have any questions or concerns that you'd like to discuss with us. Otherwise, I wish you only the best with your new purchase!
I wanted to answer a few of your questions, and if you have more let me know. You're welcome to call us (301-576-6142) or shoot me a PM.
The inside of the bellmouth is partially unfinished because that surface isn't visible once installed, and those seams do not affect flow. As meha11 said, finishing the inside of that pipe would add a lot of labor to the downpipe, which would surely increase the cost of the pipe even further. But rest assured that it will not negatively affect performance, and the dynos on our website came from a pipe that was built using the exact same fabrication methods.
The hangers are actually supposed to be sitting back like that. The reason they're like that is because the cat and the flex pipe are so large (long). If you were to make the hangers any longer, then you actually wouldn't have enough clearance to get the pipe into the underside of the car. Making the cat and flex pipe as large as possible were absolute necessities in order for the pipe to survive the life of the vehicle (part of the reason why we can offer a lifetime warranty on it), whereas the hanger placement is much less critical. Despite the position of the hangers, they'll provide plenty of support for the pipe.
As I said before, please do give us a call if you have any questions or concerns that you'd like to discuss with us. Otherwise, I wish you only the best with your new purchase!
I am no mechanic but after having owned a motorcycle for so many years, I can't see how the inside of the pipe being left like that won't affect performance....even if it's just a little.
On the heads of a motorcycle, little crevices and non smooth areas greatly effect performance. That's the heads of course where having the air flow in and out in the fastest and smoothest possible way is paramount for power.
As for the exhaust, the same basic principle applies no? Engines can be considered air pumps and the faster the air moves in/out, the more power. If the air is passing around the inside of that pipe and it's causing turbulance, it would slow this process down.
I am not saying that you will gain like ten horsepower or anything from smoothing out the inside but it just seems a bit misleading when somebody says it doesn't mean anything.
Please let me know if I am off base here.
On the heads of a motorcycle, little crevices and non smooth areas greatly effect performance. That's the heads of course where having the air flow in and out in the fastest and smoothest possible way is paramount for power.
As for the exhaust, the same basic principle applies no? Engines can be considered air pumps and the faster the air moves in/out, the more power. If the air is passing around the inside of that pipe and it's causing turbulance, it would slow this process down.
I am not saying that you will gain like ten horsepower or anything from smoothing out the inside but it just seems a bit misleading when somebody says it doesn't mean anything.
Please let me know if I am off base here.
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AutoXRacer
Member
Well, I've put about 80 miles on the new DP now and it definitely feels a little more powerful... (ricer)
Oh and the smell is also going away; its not as strong as it was... (thumb)
There is no longer the build up of power/burst... You step on it and it just goes.(burnout)
I am wondering if my perceived notion of reduced pull is from the loss of traction now occurring; like I said, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd experience loss of traction... 3rd gear used to be my power gear, now its 4th gear...
I love the way the new exhaust sounds!! Its definitely a meaner sounding tone while idling or low rpm 1K-2K... But during normal driving/cruising, it sounds completely stock...at least from the cabin.
I have mixed feelings about this mod. I was expecting it to have the same effect as when I did my MS CAI which was in my opinion a drastic power mod. This DP mod feels like half of what the CAI felt and it cost almost 3 times as much with 10 times more labor...
Would I recommend the mod; I don't know...? (huh) (scratch)
I need to drive the car a little more; it seems to still be adjusting. I wonder since I'm not in boost very often due to traffic, if thats the reason why its taking so long to fine tune itself...?
Maybe I just haven't been driving the car enough time to notice a difference; it only has 5k miles on it...
I'll keep updating you guys on my findings with this new mod...
Thanks for all your help though!! (2thumbs)
Oh and the smell is also going away; its not as strong as it was... (thumb)
There is no longer the build up of power/burst... You step on it and it just goes.(burnout)
I am wondering if my perceived notion of reduced pull is from the loss of traction now occurring; like I said, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd experience loss of traction... 3rd gear used to be my power gear, now its 4th gear...
I love the way the new exhaust sounds!! Its definitely a meaner sounding tone while idling or low rpm 1K-2K... But during normal driving/cruising, it sounds completely stock...at least from the cabin.
I have mixed feelings about this mod. I was expecting it to have the same effect as when I did my MS CAI which was in my opinion a drastic power mod. This DP mod feels like half of what the CAI felt and it cost almost 3 times as much with 10 times more labor...
Would I recommend the mod; I don't know...? (huh) (scratch)
I need to drive the car a little more; it seems to still be adjusting. I wonder since I'm not in boost very often due to traffic, if thats the reason why its taking so long to fine tune itself...?
Maybe I just haven't been driving the car enough time to notice a difference; it only has 5k miles on it...
I'll keep updating you guys on my findings with this new mod...
Thanks for all your help though!! (2thumbs)
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AutoXRacer whould you mind posting some pics of your stock downpipe from a few different angles?
I'm a a welder so I would feel kind of silly buying something I could make.
I was thinking I may cut up my stock one(mostly for the flange that mates to the turbo) and turn into a three inch catless.
photos of it out of the car would make it easier for to see if it feesable/worthwhile.
I may just make it from scratch.
Thanks in adavance.
I'm a a welder so I would feel kind of silly buying something I could make.
I was thinking I may cut up my stock one(mostly for the flange that mates to the turbo) and turn into a three inch catless.
photos of it out of the car would make it easier for to see if it feesable/worthwhile.
I may just make it from scratch.
Thanks in adavance.
Mods are not cumulative like in Need For Speed Underground. A mod that gets you twenty horsepower on a stock motor might not get you that much on a motor with an intake. If you had just the DP/MP and no intake, and then got the intake, I have a feeling you'd be saying the same thing.
AutoXRacer
Member
I'll take some pictures tonight sometime and post them up!!
You are totally right... The HP claims on a DP are 20-25HP at the wheels, I don't know if thats on a completely stock car though, but talking to various shops, they did state the same claims with my setup...
Could it be a possibility that when you reach a certain HP range that 20HP here and there will not be noticed... For example, in a 140HP Miata, a 10HP mod is felt drastically, but in a 280HP MS3, would adding 20HP be felt all that much...? (huh)
