Installation question.

[Thug541]

Hey, everyone. I just bought a 2002 Protege ES and i'm changing everything for the audio. I have my sony head unit from my old car, I just bought 2 infinity perfect subs..10", dvc's, also bought the infinty kappa 6x9's and the infinity kappa componets for the front. I plan on pushing the subs with two MTX THUNDER4250D mono amps wired to 2 ohms. and haven't decided on which amp to power my interior speakers yet but it'll prob. be an MTX amp to match. Now my question is, at 2 ohms, the rms of both amps will be 500 watts, and lets just say my unnamed third amp will be 200 x 4 rms. Now my question is i'm trying to get this as clean as possible so I wanted to use a Power Distribution block. Now would running a 4 guage wire to the block then 8 guage wires to the amp be the correct setup? And i plan on letting my installer do this but i want to buy the right wires. My other question, is would i need to buy a full amp wiring kit for each amp? or maybe just one then have the installer use spare wires they prob. have? Thanks guys in advance.

~Also, how does the protege react to rattling? DO you think i should get some dynamat too?

 

[Poseur]

firstoff, WElcome to the forums, very informative community here... and congrats on the car. A frined of mine's been looking for a decent condition used ES and it's not happening too well for him...

Nowthen, first off I'm not tryingto be mean, but in the word of car audio there are alot of misconceptions. I onc eupon a time looked to crutchfield as the bible, and have since learned that while they are a valueable resource, there's MUCH MUCH more to car audio and it DOES make a difference... Thatsaid, how did you make your speaker decision? I really think you can do better for the$ than an all-infinity "crutchfied upgrade" setup, but if that's all cemented, sobeit. THose subs are rated forlike 350w, right? why push them with a pair of 500w amps. Infact, why a pair? is it a cosmetic thing? you could very easily find a single amp to push the hell outta the pair and save the $/space.

Onto the front speakers. I'm gonna make ONE VERY strong recommendation that you only amp the fronts, I know you just dropped some coin on 6x9's but rear-deck locations, while visible and easy to fit speakers into are not optimal for anything, but making lots of sound(noise?) especially when you throw lots of power at them. and do you REALLY wanna push 200wx4??? I'd LOVE a 200wx4 amp to use for my front-stage only with a large midbass taking the "rear" channels. I'm currently pushing about 180w RMS (according ot my multimeter) to kappa's and they're holding up and sounding alright, but I've since been enlightened and will be replacing the speakers very soon. Id you're set on your speakers, I'd perhaps get a 150x2 amp for your front speakers, and MAYBE MAYBE a 50x2 amp for the rears (but I'd really just run them off the deck)

As far as power goes, if you stay to your choices, for that kind of power, you'll need atleast 2g run to a dist block. I'd honestly run a pair of 4's to a distroblock if I had to doit again, I jsut did that with afriends' car and it looks cool having a pair running alltheway back, plus it's MUCH easier to route and get parts for. not to mention fuses, etc. (try finding a 200a anl fuse at 9pm on a saturday and you'll know what I mean)

 

[PhatTrax]

firstoff, WElcome to the forums, very informative community here... and congrats on the car. A frined of mine's been looking for a decent condition used ES and it's not happening too well for him...

Nowthen, first off I'm not tryingto be mean, but in the word of car audio there are alot of misconceptions. I onc eupon a time looked to crutchfield as the bible, and have since learned that while they are a valueable resource, there's MUCH MUCH more to car audio and it DOES make a difference... Thatsaid, how did you make your speaker decision? I really think you can do better for the$ than an all-infinity "crutchfied upgrade" setup, but if that's all cemented, sobeit. THose subs are rated forlike 350w, right? why push them with a pair of 500w amps. Infact, why a pair? is it a cosmetic thing? you could very easily find a single amp to push the hell outta the pair and save the $/space.

Onto the front speakers. I'm gonna make ONE VERY strong recommendation that you only amp the fronts, I know you just dropped some coin on 6x9's but rear-deck locations, while visible and easy to fit speakers into are not optimal for anything, but making lots of sound(noise?) especially when you throw lots of power at them. and do you REALLY wanna push 200wx4??? I'd LOVE a 200wx4 amp to use for my front-stage only with a large midbass taking the "rear" channels. I'm currently pushing about 180w RMS (according ot my multimeter) to kappa's and they're holding up and sounding alright, but I've since been enlightened and will be replacing the speakers very soon. Id you're set on your speakers, I'd perhaps get a 150x2 amp for your front speakers, and MAYBE MAYBE a 50x2 amp for the rears (but I'd really just run them off the deck)

As far as power goes, if you stay to your choices, for that kind of power, you'll need atleast 2g run to a dist block. I'd honestly run a pair of 4's to a distroblock if I had to doit again, I jsut did that with afriends' car and it looks cool having a pair running alltheway back, plus it's MUCH easier to route and get parts for. not to mention fuses, etc. (try finding a 200a anl fuse at 9pm on a saturday and you'll know what I mean)

and this kids is why you keep spare fuses

 

[Thug541]

firstoff, congrats on the car. A frined of mine's been looking for a decent condition used ES and it's not happening too well for him...

Nowthen, How did you make your speaker decision? I really think you can do better for the$ than an all-infinity "crutchfied upgrade" setup, but if that's all cemented, sobeit. THose subs are rated forlike 350w, right? why push them with a pair of 500w amps. Infact, why a pair? is it a cosmetic thing? you could very easily find a single amp to push the hell outta the pair and save the $/space.

Onto the front speakers. I'm gonna make ONE VERY strong recommendation that you only amp the fronts, I know you just dropped some coin on 6x9's but rear-deck locations, while visible and easy to fit speakers into are not optimal for anything, but making lots of sound(noise?) especially when you throw lots of power at them. and do you REALLY wanna push 200wx4??? I'd LOVE a 200wx4 amp to use for my front-stage only with a large midbass taking the "rear" channels. I'm currently pushing about 180w RMS (according ot my multimeter) to kappa's and they're holding up and sounding alright, but I've since been enlightened and will be replacing the speakers very soon. Id you're set on your speakers, I'd perhaps get a 150x2 amp for your front speakers, and MAYBE MAYBE a 50x2 amp for the rears (but I'd really just run them off the deck)

As far as power goes, if you stay to your choices, for that kind of power, you'll need atleast 2g run to a dist block. I'd honestly run a pair of 4's to a distroblock if I had to doit again, I jsut did that with afriends' car and it looks cool having a pair running alltheway back, plus it's MUCH easier to route and get parts for. not to mention fuses, etc. (try finding a 200a anl fuse at 9pm on a saturday and you'll know what I mean)

Yea, took me a while to find the car too. NOt a bad find tho, previous owner changed the exhuast and put clear turn lights on the side. One ding on the car that i can hopefully fix later. Hmmm....well i bought just about all my stuff off of ebay so i saved money on that. But, yea i was gonna do the 2 amp thing for looks, but also cause i can get each one for $160....soo $320 for both. Also, at 2 ohms the amps are rated at 250 watts rms each. not 500 each. If you know of one amp, perferably digital, that is around that price that would be cool. Also, i'd gladly save some money and buy a 2 channel amp just for the front componets if you think i dont' need to power my back with an amp. (come to think of it, my friend powers his back speakers and he had to use the fader because they were overpowering the front.

~Oh yea....by 200x4, i meant to say 50x4.....but i'll start looking into some 2 channel amps for the front i guess. Has anyone been able to put a set of componets in the rear door? My 99 jetta was setup like that and it sounded great.

 

[Poseur]

Rear components has been done plenty, and would be a much better option than 6x9's. Theproblem with them isthat they reflect directly off of your back windown and go straight for hte back of your head. ESPECIALLY high frequencies which are very directional, so you wind up with alot of noise all around your head. Having good sound means a simple pair of speakers that you can mentally "locate" somewher ein front of you. it's simpy human nature. you don't got to a concert and look away from the stage, or hear something interesting and lturn the back of your head to it... NOw the door-mounting location helps because the speakers ar mostly "muted" from the frontseats by your seatbacks. And rear seat passengers will not have a oversized overpowered speaker barking directly at them. Thatsaid, my preferred setup, as with many others is to run a heavily amped fornt stage and either no rear speakers, or my stock factory paper ones off of deck power in the back just for some general midrange "fill" YOur car has openings for 5-1/4" s or you coudl fit 6.5's if you trim te ring that extends back from the doorpanel to the speaker surround. I'd personally ditch 'em all, but that's just me...

Amping your front speakers, I'd recommend a clean 100wish amp. there's plnty out there, Alpine, Eclipse and JL being the ones I'd blindly across the board recommend. just make sure that they've got Highpass crossovers if yur deck does not. MY personal progression went form 75wRMSx4 to kappa's all around to 200ish to my fronts and factory speakers (I like the sound of them better no tweeters to make tingy noise) Just the simple addition of thatmuch power made a HUGE difference for me. It's amazing howmuch clearer things got, almost made me wanna keep my kappa's but they're still gone as soon as my components show up.

As for the sub amp thing, could you just buy one of those amps, and then run it to 1ohm for max ouput of 500w??? I'm unfamiliar with those amps, post up some specs... There's All sorts of options in that pricerange. But if you want the look, there's nothing wrong with running likethat. in the end it's safer not pushing your amps as hard.

 

[Thug541]

Ahh alright. So yea, there are door cut outs for the speakers already? MY car is actaully getting new tires put on at the dealership so i can't check right now. BUt then i think i might just sit with the 6x9's for now, and maybe put a midrange in the door panal, and somehow get a tweeter in the door. But that won't be for a lil while. But yea, hopefully that tingy sound wont' be too bad. I listen to mostly rap, so the highs are few and far apart.

 

[sam1]

well poseur, looks like you pretty much took care of him already. damn you guys are up late, or early, which ever way you look at it. anyways, a topic you havent touched yet, i would most definately recommend some sound proofing. my protege rattles like a mofo. mainly it sounds like its coming from inside the back bumper. alot of people seem to have liked the paint on stuff from eD, so i think thats what im gonna go with once i get my pro back, which is hopefully the end of next week. i cant wait to feel the bass again, im so sick of stock mitsubishi crap=).

 

[Poseur]

yes yes, like the question answering elves in the night..

And, yea forgot about that, sounddeaden alot, even if you don't havealot of rattles, it improves EVERYTHING.makes driving thatmuch nicer too, much less roadnoise, etc. ALot of the rear-bumper rattling I've localized to my exhaust heat shield, I think Wakey actually cracked his, but most of us don't have 3kw going to a ported 18, now do we? Mine rattles, but that was only apparant after alot of others were tracked down, for me alot of my bad ones were in my hatch, not toosure aboutsedan, but I hear the rear shelf is one source (another reason it's good to pull the 6x9's lets air flow through) Also, do a good bit to your doors, especially directly behind the speaker, makes WORLDS of difference, especially if you're throwing lots of power to them.

As far as rear door setup, yes there are holes there, but no speakers, you'll likely have to pull wire, but it's pretty easy in that location. And actualyl running JUST mids is also a good idea, There's nowhere directly acessable to put tweeters, you'd have to cut, but I'd prettymuch just not do it. NO nee ot waste alot of $ on speakers that aren't really doing you much good. Like I said, I HAD amped kappa's in my doors, and switched out to factory peakers off the deck 'cause I honestly think it sounds better.

 

[Thug541]

Alright...sounds good. Anyone else have an opinon or does everyone agree the rear should be un amped? Also, what do you guys think would be a good dampening for the trunk? I was thining of just buying a dynamat trunk kit...while expensive, i used dynamat on my trunk of my old car, killed the main rattle, but i never did find the other rattle areas.

~Also, like i said, i often listen to a lot of rap, and say if i wanted to show off my system (coem on...we all do it once in a while), will an unamped rear deck distory before my componets amped?

 

[PhatTrax]

all that matters is that it sounds good to you so see how it sounds first before you make a decision. also b-quiet is a good alternative to dynamat. dynamat imo is overpriced for what it is.

 

[Poseur]

Where do you live, actually? Maybe some of us inhere could maybe give you a taste of what our cars sound like if you happen to be close to one of us. I'm in Central WA, and over on the coast quite a bit.

As for deadening, brownbread, raammat, Edead, prettymuch any of the 'net company stuff is just about as good, and waaay waay less $ run searches, you'll see it goneover and brokendown quite well.

Not quite sure I understand ont he show off bit, you mean will it be loud enough to impress ppl? Trust me, pushing over 100w to your fronts, you'll have PLENTY of sound to fill your car with. rear seats included. Infact I prefer my current setup to the 4x75w from the rear seat aswell as the front. I almost like it better back there, save for the "boom seat" effect

 

[Thug541]

Haha...the massage chairs? Those are great. Yea, i actually live in New YOrk....a nice lil trip haha. But yea, i think i'm gonna take ur guys advice. Saves me money too. I'll let you know how it turns out. I might give a go at changing my rear speakers, so i might be back to ask for some help.

 

[Poseur]

I'll likely be pulling some wires into my rear doors tonight (for something different mindyou) but I'll document the process of doing that. I was hoping someone else wouls speak-up 'cause yea it IS hard to go off of just one's advice, I assure you Others are with me. you can search it too if you want. it's all been over and over inhere.

As for NY, I'm pretty sure there's some NewYorkers in here. I know a couplefew from IL, butyea..

 

[Thug541]

Just wanted to update you guys on my system. I decided not to go the cheap way seeing i plan on keeping this car for a while and I picked up a JL e4300 and an e1800D. For now...im gonna power all 4, see how that sounds, but i'll prob. try your unamped suggestion and bridge the e4300 to the front speakers. I am too lazy to try to install my stuff these days but my local shop gave me a pretty good deal. Seeing i only bought my amps from them (both were at like full price) so it was about $800 just for the amps, then installation for everything (head unit, front and rear speakers, amps, plus wiring kit only came out for $200 more. So roughly a $1300 system by the time i add everything up....not bad.

 

[Poseur]

oOH!! yea yea bridge that funky chikken.. believe me it'll be sweet.. Props on the decision to do it right BTW.

 

[autosoundnut]

Alright...sounds good. Anyone else have an opinon or does everyone agree the rear should be un amped? Also, what do you guys think would be a good dampening for the trunk? I was thining of just buying a dynamat trunk kit...while expensive, i used dynamat on my trunk of my old car, killed the main rattle, but i never did find the other rattle areas.

~Also, like i said, i often listen to a lot of rap, and say if i wanted to show off my system (coem on...we all do it once in a while), will an unamped rear deck distory before my componets amped?

Okay, I know this probably doesnt make a difference anymore but I have to get it off of my chest. DO NOT RUN YOUR SPEAKERS OFF YOUR DECK!!!!!! The deck may say 50watts by 4 or whatever bs, that is NOT clean power! Only about 15 to 20 watts is actually clean power. I do agree with the front staging part but just turn the gains down in the rear. you generally want midbass in the rear. I have been doing this a long time and have had more than a few winning show cars so I know what im talking about. any Q's email me (boom07)

 

[1sty]

Okay, I know this probably doesnt make a difference anymore but I have to get it off of my chest. DO NOT RUN YOUR SPEAKERS OFF YOUR DECK!!!!!! The deck may say 50watts by 4 or whatever bs, that is NOT clean power! Only about 15 to 20 watts is actually clean power. I do agree with the front staging part but just turn the gains down in the rear. you generally want midbass in the rear. I have been doing this a long time and have had more than a few winning show cars so I know what im talking about. any Q's email me (boom07)

He saying he will only be running only the rears off the deck in which case they are for fill and can be faded out of the system and easily balanced to not distort.

 

[autosoundnut]

I can understand what your saying but if you fade them out,but it will not be fill sound then. And to a point you do want some rear sound.The whole reason you amplify speakers is to get CLEANER power not neccesarily more power. So yes you dont want to drown out the fronts but in the long run it will save your speakers in the rear.Decks dont put out clean power which will ruin your speakers when played loud alot.


MECP FIRST CLASS
DEI, PANASONIC,ALPINE,PIONEER FACTORY TRAINED

 

[sndsgood]

if yoru system is setup properly and u know at what point your headunit starts to distort at and u don't turn it up past that point u will never ruin any speakers. its not the equipment that ruins speakers, its the person turning the knob up to high.

also you dont want midbass in the rear, u want it infront of u as well, heck if most cars could fit subs in front, thats where most people would mount them because the sound should be in front of you.

 

[autosoundnut]

Oh of course. I am totally agreeing with you there.The rears are just for filler sound.you do want and if you are going to do the work of amplifying your front stage, you may as well do a little more and do the rears as well just for the much better power. you can always turn the gains on the amplifier down a little if you want. Not the mention I dont think a whole lot of people know at what point the volume is too much you know? Not everyone has had the same traing as we have. Thats why im saying if you amplify all the speakers you can save yourself in the long run.
Also technically, dirty power is bad for your speakers and although some of the distortion may be inaudible id is still bad for your speakers. Now I said before that even an aftermarket deck that claims 50W X 4, actually puts out 10 to 20 watts of clean, uncut power. Now there is now way anybody under 80 years old is going to keep the volume below 15 watts. Im just saying in the long run if he wants to turn it up it will be much better for all his speakers.