How-To: Install Cobb Springs + Impressions afterwards.

late to the game again.

The more you lower the car, the more you are going to get negative camber (the splaying of the rear wheels). The only real problem with too much negative camber is excessive wear on the inside treads of the tires. You can take care of some of this by rotating often or, you can buy adjustable camber arms and have a shop set it for you.
i have read althe way through but this caught my eye on the scrolling first. I do not know alot and much of is from reading and not hands on. Mostly theory I barely grasp in regard to suspension and steering geometry and such. Something about axle centers. Even if you adjust camber to bring the wheel back to a more vertical position from negative camber. The relationship between the height of the shaft at the motor and the shaft at the attachment point to the wheel has changed. This change of, setting the car lower, can start to affect steering geometry and how the cars transitions the loads from corner to corner when driving. Like I said, way above me, but I think there is more to it than just camber adj. I don't mean to sound rude
 
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As for the toe changing, I knew that, but considering that the top of the strut is what is being moved, I figured any effect would be so minimal as to not count.
I did not know about the caster calculation, though. Thanks, always a good day when I get to learn something new.
Yes , thanks for all the education gentlemen.
 
i have read althe way through but this caught my on the scrolling first. I do not know alot and much of is from reading and not hands on. Mostly theory I barely grasp in regard to suspension and steering geometry and such. Something about axle centers. Even if you adjust camber to bring the wheel back to a more vertical position from negative camber. The relationship between the height of the shaft at the motor and the shaft at the attachment point to the wheel has changed. This change of, setting the car lower, can start to affect steering geometry and how the cars transitions the loads from corner to corner when driving. Like I said, way above me, but I think there is more to it than just camber adj. I don't mean to sound rude

You are confused because you're combining multiple discussions into one. The change you are referring to (spindle height in relation to tranny height) would mostly affect the wear and tear on the CV (constant velocity) joints that connect the transmission/driveshaft/wheel assembly together. The greater the angle they are forced to run at, the more stress they are under, so changing ride height dramatically can cause them to fail prematurely. This issue really shouldn't apply here, as we are only talking about a few degrees difference. It really needs to be considered only when making a significant change (like lift kits in pickup trucks requiring shims be put on the rear axle mounts to change the angle the rear axle sits at so the driveshaft will turn freely).
Lowering the car will affect steering geometry, but not because of this. The design of the suspension affects how much change there is in something like camber as the car is raised or lowered. The reason performance cars tend to experience increased camber when the suspension is lowered is because they are designed that way. Picture your car being thrown into a corner. The body begins to roll, and the outer edge of the car sinks. The suspension is designed so that the greater this motion, the more the tire angle changes, to keep it flat on the road even though the car is at an angle while in the corner.
This motion is very similar to what happens when you drop the car. With luck, the factory suspension can be adjusted to compensate. For an MS3, a small drop (an inch or less) appears to stay well within specs. Bigger drops require component changes to be able to get back in spec, at least on the rear end.
 
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Sounds like he might be asking about increased bumpsteer as well. Rest assured though, unless you change the relative position of the tie-rod balljoint attachment point to the wheel upright or if you change the location of the steering gearbox (aka rack) then the bumpsteer will tend to remain flat through almost the entire wheel travel range, including when you have lowered the car (which from a geometry point of view is the same as loading the car with more weight).
 
Hey Sacrilicious I have a few questions. Just to be clear, when you got your alighnment checked you where still in spec? You said they had to change a few things, do you remember what they where? I am trying to decide if I would need camber plates with the Cobb springs. How is a normal spring settling time? Thanks for the info this post has a lot of great information!
 
Hey Sacrilicious I have a few questions. Just to be clear, when you got your alighnment checked you where still in spec? You said they had to change a few things, do you remember what they where? I am trying to decide if I would need camber plates with the Cobb springs. How is a normal spring settling time? Thanks for the info this post has a lot of great information!

i actually didn't get the details because the service tech told me that it was such minor adjustments that he wasn't even pulling in from being out of spec. all he was doing was adjusting it a little bit to put it in the center of the spec range.
 
You are confused because you're combining multiple discussions into one. The change you are referring to (spindle height in relation to tranny height) would mostly affect the wear and tear on the CV (constant velocity) joints that connect the transmission/driveshaft/wheel assembly together. The greater the angle they are forced to run at, the more stress they are under, so changing ride height dramatically can cause them to fail prematurely. This issue really shouldn't apply here, as we are only talking about a few degrees difference. It really needs to be considered only when making a significant change (like lift kits in pickup trucks requiring shims be put on the rear axle mounts to change the angle the rear axle sits at so the driveshaft will turn freely).
Lowering the car will affect steering geometry, but not because of this. The design of the suspension affects how much change there is in something like camber as the car is raised or lowered. The reason performance cars tend to experience increased camber when the suspension is lowered is because they are designed that way. Picture your car being thrown into a corner. The body begins to roll, and the outer edge of the car sinks. The suspension is designed so that the greater this motion, the more the tire angle changes, to keep it flat on the road even though the car is at an angle while in the corner.
This motion is very similar to what happens when you drop the car. With luck, the factory suspension can be adjusted to compensate. For an MS3, a small drop (an inch or less) appears to stay well within specs. Bigger drops require component changes to be able to get back in spec, at least on the rear end.
Thanks I do understand a bit about straight line stability (dragging) as compared to a road or GT style car. When lateral force is applied, a wheel with negative camber will be more effective to maintain a good contact patch? Thanks for patience gents
 
bumpsteer

Sounds like he might be asking about increased bumpsteer as well. Rest assured though, unless you change the relative position of the tie-rod balljoint attachment point to the wheel upright or if you change the location of the steering gearbox (aka rack) then the bumpsteer will tend to remain flat through almost the entire wheel travel range, including when you have lowered the car (which from a geometry point of view is the same as loading the car with more weight).
Yep thats it. Ok how about range of travel for struts. The Cobb I believe lowers the car one inch front and rear. Which will be as far as i will go in the attempt to stiffen my speed 3, regardless of the theories. Or facts. I guess that is a comfort zone for me. The Cobb spring sounds like my next purchase and i am looking forward to the rewards from bars/springs upgrade. So when should the struts be replaced if at all? With the springs being shorter, Doesn't the rest point changes? And if the valving would be affected. Just trying to think this throughI just realized i have thread jacked maybe
 
I have no information regarding the available bump travel of the stock shocks but I'm guessing it's not built to be a long-travel rally car type setup. Hell, even the STI's are severely bump-travel challenged. That's why I chose the Mazdaspeed springs because they seem to have the least drop available while still going to stiffer rates.
 
Yep thats it. Ok how about range of travel for struts. The Cobb I believe lowers the car one inch front and rear. Which will be as far as i will go in the attempt to stiffen my speed 3, regardless of the theories. Or facts. I guess that is a comfort zone for me. The Cobb spring sounds like my next purchase and i am looking forward to the rewards from bars/springs upgrade. So when should the struts be replaced if at all? With the springs being shorter, Doesn't the rest point changes? And if the valving would be affected. Just trying to think this throughI just realized i have thread jacked maybe

I asked this question a while back on Cobb's forum. Cobb's opinion is that the factory springs are in fact overmatched by the factory struts, so they brought the spring rates up to what they decided was appropriate for the struts. The only reason to replace them is if you wear them out.
 
i actually didn't get the details because the service tech told me that it was such minor adjustments that he wasn't even pulling in from being out of spec. all he was doing was adjusting it a little bit to put it in the center of the spec range.

What spring compressor did you use?
 
Standard compressors come in two varieties, one of which will not work with struts. Make sure you specify that you need the version for struts.

ya, good catch...they will likely give you the ones for struts anyways, but ya, you should specify spring compressors for struts...:D
 
I asked this question a while back on Cobb's forum. Cobb's opinion is that the factory springs are in fact overmatched by the factory struts, so they brought the spring rates up to what they decided was appropriate for the struts. The only reason to replace them is if you wear them out.
That sounds reassuring. I am afraid I will long for adjustable damping. As a side is there any fact to the Cobb/ Hotchkis in cahoots theory?
 
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