Has the MS3 dethroned SRT4?

[avarela86]

I love our cars, handle great, make driving fun. Yes they have plenty of downfall but what can you expect out of such an old designed platform for an engine. They are well rounded cars and deserve their respect for what they are good for. I think that for the price range, yes the MS3 takes the thrown. All do to the fact of out of the box equipment. At the end of the day they are two different cars built with two completely different purposes.

 

[Kansei]

the 1st gen is a 100% better car than the 3rd gen's in respect to handling..
first gen is a more solid, better enginered, better handling, and makes better power(vs 3rd gen protege), and has more potential(ditto). Go talk to someone that mod's 1st gen's and 3rd gen's

Funny then how the 3rd gen outhandles the 1st gen. Don't get me wrong, I love the 1g and would love to own one (I've driven a friend's before) but the only thing the 1g has on the 3rd gen is that beautiful BP engine

 

[Hughes412]

So why exactly do you own a Protege if they just completely suck?

And what the hell is suspintion?? The reason why Mazda limits the torque in 1st and 2nd is so that you don't blow the crap out of the motor, it's called being smart!

I'd also much rather outhandle a car in turns tha outmuscle in on a straight. It's much more fun beating the crap out of a car in the twisties when the competition has the upperhand on power.

I miss spelled the word but you got what I was saying. I got it because it was new for 11k. The civic was 16 amd the mazda had more options then the rest. That and I didn't say the protege sucked, just the msp. The only reason the make the car was to move some inventory, they slap a cheap turbo and body kit on it and then sell them. That's why they only did so for what a yr and a half? The SRT, STI, EVO don't have to be limited. If mazda built the motor the right way they wouldn't have to worry about that.

These cars are still econo boxes with a turbo. If you want fast take the 26k or more and get a WRX.

 

[Hughes412]

Well, I would say that in stock form the MSP is not that fast on a straight line, your correct. Then you have to look at those MSPs out there that pull on STIs, and RSXs, all the while using a stock block (i.e. JDM Sam, and Pirana). I would also venture to say sense they pull on these cars they would definately pull on an SRT4. About the clunk, I have almost 40K on my car, and I don't have the clunk. Plus you can get a fix for what? 130? Sure the stock radio sucks, I agree with that, but what stock radio doesn't? You can pick up a decent alpine for around 130 that is Ipod interface ready. So overall, I would have to say that the MSP is a great ALL AROUND car for the money. Yeah, your not running 12's out of the box, but neither does the SRT4. You might like the straight races more, but that is your opinion and thats cool, but you can't discredit what some have done with the stock block of the MSP. Plus you can't say that the MSP does not handle like a beast, clunk or not.

LOL I like your post. Cool headed. The only thing that I have to say about JDM and the rest of them is they had to sink SOOO much money into the car to be fast. You can put the same about in other cars and clean house. Other then that, yea if you have the money you can make it fast. But with the right amount of money you can make anything fast.

 

[Hughes412]

I don't believe he was going as far as to say that protege sucks. His point was rather to point out it was meant to be relatively cheap and fun to drive. you agree right? (thumb) And im also sure that most will agree that the pro engine isnt meant to handle mass amounts of power.

You are 100% right, I had a few at the game last night. It didn't come out right.

 

[Kansei]

These cars are still econo boxes with a turbo. If you want fast take the 26k or more and get a WRX.

The WRX and STi are econoboxes with a turbo too

granted the STi is a highly modified econobox, as is the evo, neon SRT-4, et al. I don't see anything wrong with putting a turbo on an econobox

 

[Rotary_Powered]

I thought, they cancelled the MSP because Mazda had to introduce the 3, and the MSP was technically just the first MS experient. right?

 

[Kansei]

I thought, they cancelled the MSP because Mazda had to introduce the 3, and the MSP was technically just the first MS experient. right?

They knew it was just going to be a 1-year affair.. it was just a way to get some remaining protege parts put into cars to be sold. That and it was just the first experiment, so if it went totally awry it would only be a problem with a few thousand cars

 

[Donas64]

**** the MSP! This might be the Jim Beam talking, but goddam the msp is a slow POS! I know this is a mazda forum but goddamn lets be honest. Yea it handles ok but what good is that if you can't pass people on the strieghts? Even then it's not that good. How many NCCA champs has been won in an MSP? The radio sucks (breaks all the time) the LSD sucks the pistons suck the rods suck, the suspintion sucks (clunk). Hell the list goes on. The only thing good about the car was you could get it cheap.

Now Mazda has this MS3 that has 260+hp yet it limits the torq and hp in first and second gear and that makes it as slow as the 04 SRT4. And they want to charge 24k!? Give me a ******* break! Thats why they don't out sell honda. People don't by cars to be balanced, they want speed! **** a turn. I don't car if I have to slow down for a turn as long as I can pass that b**** when I come out. And that the SRT4 does.

OK now I'm done.! Some one tell Mazda to start over and do it right this time.(poke)

While I wouldn't quite say the MSP sucks, I'm right there with you on straight line power.

I live in VA where there are so many great curvy roads to drive on (Blue Ridge PArkway FTW!!!!) But many MANY times I want to curse the WEAK motor in my protege when I need some thrust to pass slow moving traffic or an 18 wheeler and all I get is noise. You can have a balanced car that handles well and goes well also. As a total Package, I rather like the VW GTI. It gives up a lot of power to the MS3 but it's torque curve is broader and it can handle also.

So while I do think mazda does have a winner with the MS3, I think they took a huge step back styling wise and I think that it's a little silly that an 04 SRT4 can keep right up with it. And to top it all off, it can't claim to have the telepathic handling of the MSP.

The car just came out so only time will tell for sure but until then: I'm holding out for a Mazdaspeed RX-8: Good looks, slick handling, RWD and finally 300 HP or bust!

 

[Donas64]

Just so there is no confusion though There is hardly any car I would take in it's pricerange over an MS3.

 

[mspro19]

Mazdaspeed 3

I just got my Speed3 bought it Sat. Oct. 21 with 5m on it right off the truck! and I hang out with 6 SRT-4's. Most of them are heavy modded out and can beat me. But as far as a stock for stock I eat it up. Don't get me wrong it's close but about a half a car to a car length...I'll try to get some video of us doing a pull if I can...

 

[JDM Sam]

Well, I would say that in stock form the MSP is not that fast on a straight line, your correct. Then you have to look at those MSPs out there that pull on STIs, and RSXs, all the while using a stock block (i.e. JDM Sam, and Pirana). I would also venture to say sense they pull on these cars they would definately pull on an SRT4. About the clunk, I have almost 40K on my car, and I don't have the clunk. Plus you can get a fix for what? 130? Sure the stock radio sucks, I agree with that, but what stock radio doesn't? You can pick up a decent alpine for around 130 that is Ipod interface ready. So overall, I would have to say that the MSP is a great ALL AROUND car for the money. Yeah, your not running 12's out of the box, but neither does the SRT4. You might like the straight races more, but that is your opinion and thats cool, but you can't discredit what some have done with the stock block of the MSP. Plus you can't say that the MSP does not handle like a beast, clunk or not.

You called? You left out the GTO 6.0L and MS6.

Anyone with a MS3 in Dallas please contact me, we will set up a run and video tape it for everyone here.

1/4 mile is all about traction and hole shot. You want to test which car is faster come on a freeway run.

This thread is full of magazine racing. Bring the car out real world real driver and run it, not this magazine bulls***.

 

[JDM Sam]

LOL I like your post. Cool headed. The only thing that I have to say about JDM and the rest of them is they had to sink SOOO much money into the car to be fast. You can put the same about in other cars and clean house. Other then that, yea if you have the money you can make it fast. But with the right amount of money you can make anything fast.

What is "SOOO" much?
Intake, exhaust,fmic, and unchip is too much? With those mods I'm still cheaper than a MS3 @ sticker out the door with TT&L, counting the non GT model.

Pirana bought his car used and it is even cheaper. As for power mods he has the same amount as me plus a turbo manifold. The other mods you see mostly are aesthetic and suspension mods.

 

[JDM Sam]

I miss spelled the word but you got what I was saying. I got it because it was new for 11k. The civic was 16 amd the mazda had more options then the rest. That and I didn't say the protege sucked, just the msp. The only reason the make the car was to move some inventory, they slap a cheap turbo and body kit on it and then sell them. That's why they only did so for what a yr and a half? The SRT, STI, EVO don't have to be limited. If mazda built the motor the right way they wouldn't have to worry about that.

These cars are still econo boxes with a turbo. If you want fast take the 26k or more and get a WRX.

The WRX is just an IMPREZA Turbo'd.

 

[Pirana]

Although I do agree that WRXs and Evos have a better built motor and driveline, they are still econo-boxes. The Impreza wasnt a powerhouse in the US until 2002 and the Lancer was a rent-a-car until the Evo showed up. Same with the Protege. And even though, yes they did slap a turbo to sell the remaining inventory (only in the U.S.) the MP3 was the real deal.

If anyone remembers, when the MP3 came out, Sport Compact Car magazine did a test on one of Cali's racetracks (not 1/4 mile) of an MP3 vs. a WRX. The MP3 was over 2 seconds faster than the turbocharged 227bhp AWD monster! Thats a beating.

If MSPs have a bad rep for blowing up, its because in the begining people jumped to the turbo swapping, big boost without any type of engine management band wagon. It happened to us, and it happened to plenty of WRX, STi owners. I was on their boards, and saw plenty of STi blow up and throw rods. And if anyone remembers lots of WRX owners broke first gear and had no warranties for it. Lots of Evo owners had plenty of complaints about their cars transmissions (not clutches). I like what Sam says about magazine racing, since thats all it is.

Its true that if we want to make a 400whp monster, we are going to have to work a little harder than the Evo and STi guys, but that is what makes it special. That is the reason I sold my STi and even the NSX. Like Sam said, I havent spend a lot of $$ on the engine. A used intercooler, a Unichip, a used Injen intake, a used boost controller and an exhaust. Thats it folks. The manifold and Nology wires are an extra just for the show! Its not needed.

Sam is as fast as me with out them! We are as fast as stage-2 SRT-4s with toys, as fast as stock STi (by 3 cars) as fast as GTOs with 400bhp, as fast as tuned, header 350z, as fast as RSX w/superchargers....and just with 10psi. Yeap, that is all we run. What that tells you....is all in the tune, baby! (first)

 

[Kansei]

^^

yay for sticking with Mazda

 

[kamon8404]

Damn, enough said! Well put Pirana, and JDM Sam. There you have it, the proof, that the MSP is a power house.

 

[Hughes412]

No one said that you can't make the MSP faster. The thread was, has the MS3 dethroned the srt4? And so far the answer is no! JDSAM and Pirana it takes money to tune, how much did it cost? Plus we are talking about out of the box cars. Once you start putting afte market parts on a car all bets are off. I think doing races from a role is no way to tell which is better. Most of the time the person doing the honking gets the jump. Racing from a stop is the only way to do it. It does no good to have a fast car if you can't launch it.

 

[Donas64]

No one said that you can't make the MSP faster. The thread was, has the MS3 dethroned the srt4? And so far the answer is no! JDSAM and Pirana it takes money to tune, how much did it cost? Plus we are talking about out of the box cars. Once you start putting afte market parts on a car all bets are off. I think doing races from a role is no way to tell which is better. Most of the time the person doing the honking gets the jump. Racing from a stop is the only way to do it. It does no good to have a fast car if you can't launch it.

Agreed.

Stock for stock the MS3 while the overall better car is not faster than an SRT4 and has even less of a handling advantage than the MSP had. It's a good thing the Caliber SRT4 is an ugly beast or the MS3's reign would be short indeed.

 

[JDM Sam]

No one said that you can't make the MSP faster. The thread was, has the MS3 dethroned the srt4? And so far the answer is no! JDSAM and Pirana it takes money to tune, how much did it cost? Plus we are talking about out of the box cars. Once you start putting afte market parts on a car all bets are off. I think doing races from a role is no way to tell which is better. Most of the time the person doing the honking gets the jump. Racing from a stop is the only way to do it. It does no good to have a fast car if you can't launch it.

That's why I let them honk. Racing from a stop only tells which car has traction and driver variable on launching. Tuning didn't cost me anything since I tuned it.