Harnesses

[low_psi]

I'm looking at getting a 3 or 4 pt harness to use for autoxing since the stock seats offer less than desirable/adequate support. Am i best off just buying a name brand like Sparco? From what i can see, clip ends, not bolt-in, will work best for my application. Can anyone shed some light on the differences of these two end links?

-Marc

 

[HADA 11]

It's not a great idea to wear a harness w/o some sort of roll over protection. In the unlikely event the car rolls and the roof collapses your spine will be crushed.

I've seen a few rollovers at the track and at each and every one of them the general concensus was "Thank God he wasn;t wearing a harness".

That said, if you do install a harness use the clips, not the bolt-ins for ease of removal. Don't mount the upper (shoulder) portion of the harness so that it slopes down to the floor at an angle greater then 45deg. In a sudden stop/collision it can compress your spine. Try to keep the upper portion paralell to the floor.

The Schroth (sp?) belts work well in for a 4 point as they won't ride up on you and they're designed to keep you form submarining under the lap belt in a collision. I believe they use the OEM seat belt locations. Beyond that I'd suggest a 6 point system for the most protection/comfort.

 

[low_psi]

i will no longer be looking into these...i need my spine....

 

[dj5tyle5]

i will no longer be looking into these...i need my spine....

I know what you mean!!

 

[cjstringer]

If you are going to use a harness for AutoX, you should be fine. I will be getting one this season. I've never seen a car flip at an AX. If you were to flip, our cars would have no problem holding up at the slow speed you'd be at when it happens.
Check out Racerpartswholesale.com
They have some less expensive setups you might be happy with.
Good luck!

 

[HADA 11]

If you were to flip, our cars would have no problem holding up at the slow speed you'd be at when it happens.

You sure about that? You're going way out on a limb making that statement. Especially when it's someone safety on the line.

A decent roll bar will protect you in a roll over, give you a good place to mount the harness and is relatively safe for a daily driver so long as you don't have passengers in the rear seats. Many can be removed when the car is sold or returned to the dealer.

If you can't justify a rollbar then your should seriously consider the risks I mentioned in my previous post.

 

[Equinox]

Heh any websites that give you guildlines for mounting harnesses?

 

[cjstringer]

Have you ever autocrossed HADA 11? Just wondering, because you shouldn't ever get over 60MPH, and if you do, it should never be for a great distance. Seriously, how many people have seen a car roll in an autocross? I've NEVER heard of a protege rolling. A rabbit, maybe, a BMW, maybe, but never a protege. It would take one HUGE mistake or a highly over-aggressive driver to get it done.
To be realistic, I would say there is about a 99.9% chance you will never roll your car in an autocross. Is it possible? Yes. But would I ever put a roll cage in my car just to use it for an autocross? No. It's just a stupid, expensive, over-obsessive idea.

 

[low_psi]

Have you ever autocrossed HADA 11? Just wondering, because you shouldn't ever get over 60MPH, and if you do, it should never be for a great distance. Seriously, how many people have seen a car roll in an autocross? I've NEVER heard of a protege rolling. A rabbit, maybe, a BMW, maybe, but never a protege. It would take one HUGE mistake or a highly over-aggressive driver to get it done.
To be realistic, I would say there is about a 99.9% chance you will never roll your car in an autocross. Is it possible? Yes. But would I ever put a roll cage in my car just to use it for an autocross? No. It's just a stupid, expensive, over-obsessive idea.

funny you should mention a rabbit, cause the only car i've ever heard of rolling at an event also, is a rabbit. i'm just gonna save my money and buy a sway bar or something...

 

[cjstringer]

The rabbit has a much higher center of gravity than us.
Pretty much everyone that runs in the 3 regions I race with runs a harness, and only 1 of the cars (Out of about 200+) runs a cage. Just a thought. I will have a harness before the season is over.

 

[afrey2002]

My friend in a 2002 VW GTI rolled his 3 and a half times going about 45-50mph... His brakes locked up and the back got loose and began to slide almost in a counter-clockwise spin, then it couldn't hold it anymore and tumbled, I saw the whole thing. Now the good thing was that VW's have so many airbags that the only injury he suffered is a cut on his hand when he was trying to climb out (it landed on the passenger door). So yeah, cars will flip in autocross, he also thinks that the fact that he lost control so bad at such a low speed could have been contributed by his 24mm sway bar... Just so ya know!!!

 

[HADA 11]

Have you ever autocrossed HADA 11?

Yes I've competed in Solo 2. As a matter of fact I've won a class championship. I also compete in Solo 1 and organize & participate in various lapping days. I've also held various positions on the Board of Directors of a FIA affilliated Motorsport Club and as such contributed to local Solo 2 and Solo 1 rules and regs.

Does that make me an authority on vehicle dynamics? Hell no. But it does give me some insight into why certain rules exists. It also exposes me to people that have been doing this for a long time and have some great stories to tell.

Just wondering, because you shouldn't ever get over 60MPH, and if you do, it should never be for a great distance. Seriously, how many people have seen a car roll in an autocross? I've NEVER heard of a protege rolling. A rabbit, maybe, a BMW, maybe, but never a protege. It would take one HUGE mistake or a highly over-aggressive driver to get it done.

It doesn't matter what type of car you drive, or even how fast you're going. It all has to do with losing traction, then suddenly re-gaining traction in an awkward position. I heard of 3 rollovers in Solo 2 and I've seen a very close call that did some serious damage to a Miata. I've seen a roll over first hand in solo 1. In every situation the driver was experienced, but made split second mistake and lost the car.

I'm not trying to scare anyone, or start a flame war here. I'm providing some information that people should be aware of before strapping themselves into their car.

It's your neck on the line.

Edit for spelling

 

[syn_lube_nut]

What I can not figure out is how your spine will be damaged by using a 4pt harness for the street if you get in an accident or for that matter in a roll over (regardless of street or track), when a stock belt system is a 3pt. system and was chosen because of its ease of use.

A 4pt system should not cause any injury (less even) in a roll over than a 3pt. system would, especially since the 3pt. harness could allow you to "slip out" (unlikely, but more likely than a 4pt.). This is NOT a flame, just a question/observation. I used to work in a Level II trauma centre hospital and have seen my fair share of rollovers at high speed and unless you were buckled in, almost most ALL were DOA. Even w/ 3pt. systems that cars come with they suffered injuries from being jostled about (no severe ones).

Now, w/out a rollcage, the roof may still cave in and crush your head but for spine damage, I would be more worried about hitting my head on the pillars. But! If you are going to race on the RACE TRACK at high speeds, then GET A DERN CAGE!!! And mount the belt to it for the ultimate in safety. And use AT LEAST a 5pt. harness.

But for the street or autox, a four point system is fine IMHO. Cheers!

 

[HADA 11]

Well, with a 3 point, if the roof gives you've got someplace to go. Given the forces you'd be fighting you probably won't be able to "duck" out of the way. The roll that happened right in front of me at Shannonville was pretty nasty. The roof collapsed but my friend was thrown towards the passenger side. Thank god he was ok. The next day when we were fooling around with the car he jumped in the drivers seat. He coldn't sit upright in the car. It was very clear that had he been wearing a harness something would have had to give a few inches. It probably would have been his neck.

BTW - Always wear a helmet on the track, coarse, whatever. On the way to the hospital after the roll the medic looked at the helmet and noticed it hit the pavement at least twice durring the roll. It would hav ebeen nasty sight had he not been wearing it!

If the harness is installed incorrectly it will pull you down, into the seat, in a collision causing compression. Most mgfs warn about thing in the installation instructions.

 

[rowan]

Uh-oh HADA weasle trying to ruin our fun with talk of injuries and dying..

Here is that Schroth manufacturer:
http://www.schroth.com/english/container_english.htm

And their 3-point belt that uses OEM mounting points and is DOT legal.
http://www.schroth.com/pdf/2002-02-28_USA_FZL_2-3.pdf

Unfortunately their "approved cars" list seems to be missing any recent models of the Protege/323 .. guess they stopped looking at cars after '98.

I have thought about getting a harness but I would rather get a better seat first, and besides I need all the money I can get for tires.

 

[HADA 11]

Tire baby! Tires!

HADA weasel indeed. I'm not sure we've ever met but I ran in PITL and C4 events a few years back in a white 94 Teg. I also do a bit of Solo 1 and get out to do some lapping here and there.

If I see you at any events this summer I'll check your car for potential life threatening mods and I'll be sure to tell you they'll kill you or give you STD's. Ha ha!

I'll be the confused HADA guy in the laser blue MP5.

 

[KzA]

Just get that sweet lookin DGmotorsports rollbar..It'll save your life, and its carbon fiber!

 

[brokemp3]

actually the dgm is just for show. its not tested or anything

 

[rowan]

Yeah .. a real cage should be welded in to your car. I think it is supposed to be at at least 6 points? Different rules have different requirements I think.

No thanks, I would not trust a carbon fibre cage with my life until they are common place in professional motorsports.

 

[Equinox]

apparently it actualy bolts to the rear struts towers tho,