Harness Bar solution!

[Lewis7789]

Haha!

I hear ya on the seat. That's one reason I'm holding off on buying some myself. So far though, I'm really impressed with the Corbeau's my friend has. And I'm not talking like the fixed back seats are like stright up and down or anything. I had a fixed back seat in my DD Civic for about 2 years with a 4-point and didn't have any problems with comfort. The only difficult part was getting my wallet out of my back pocket at drive-thru's. lulz.

If there are any local race shops to you, go see if they have any seats on display and take your own measurements or check out the local Auto-x or track days and ask to sit in their cars. Most cats at the track are super nice and won't mind at all. Especially if you say you're looking to start racing too.

 

[speedracr79]

Haha!

I hear ya on the seat. That's one reason I'm holding off on buying some myself. So far though, I'm really impressed with the Corbeau's my friend has. And I'm not talking like the fixed back seats are like stright up and down or anything. I had a fixed back seat in my DD Civic for about 2 years with a 4-point and didn't have any problems with comfort. The only difficult part was getting my wallet out of my back pocket at drive-thru's. lulz.

If there are any local race shops to you, go see if they have any seats on display and take your own measurements or check out the local Auto-x or track days and ask to sit in their cars. Most cats at the track are super nice and won't mind at all. Especially if you say you're looking to start racing too.

lol at the drive thru

but thats a good idea idky i didnt think of that yeah we have a few shops here in town and the local autox i can hit up thanks man ill have to check the next event and see from there.

 

[Cleverfrog]

functionality there ^^^^ lolz

 

[speedracr79]

Ok question for those who have the bar installed do you have kids or have anyone sit in the rear where you slammed on your brakes and had someone smash their head on the bar.

I had a few comments regarding my harness bar on another forum, saying they felt sorry for my kids because they will smash their heads in my bar. (they are no where near it and are to small to reach it but anyways)

Also another thing they said was the bar was mounted in the wrong location

(QUOTE that harness bar looks soo unsafe for two reasons.

1) if you have any rear passengers they should wear helmets going forward always
2) the tabs where the rods to the floor mount are in the wrong place as it places a sheer load on the welds when stressed rather than tension. sheer = weakest point of a weld.)

Heres another one
(QUOTE that the bar bolts to the adjustable part of the seatbelt if you hit something head on, you're eating the steering wheel)

and another
(QUOTE The harnesses are one thing, but the fact that they're mounted to a mouse trap, makes them completely useless.

Even if your kids are strapped in the back, god forbid if you have a head on collision, the seat belt stretch. This slowly brings the body to a stop, and the soft backside of the front seats help.

Take the bar off it's rice that ruins an otherwise nice protege.)

So IDK how a harnes bar is rice but anyways whats yalls take on the other stuff the bar feels very sturdy to me and dosent look likes its gonna go anywhere whats yall opinions or experiences on the matter

 

[Lewis7789]

Oh, I forgot you guys use your rear seats. I haven't had rear seats for about two years so I forgot about passengers back there. Personally, I wouldn't put anyone back there simply because of the risk of them hitting that bar, no matter how slim or great.

As far as the construction, I can't really comment on it since I'm not an engineer or having any SCCA or NASA experience (other than a couple short track days). But for the mounting points on the B-pillar, I would mount them where the OEM shoulder belt bolts in. Obviously that's strong enough for a mounting location. I'm not sure about the other spots though.

And as far as "rice"? That's funny. Sparco and AMS make the exact same harness bars. So I guess their racing heritage makes them ricers...

Like I said earlier, I'm no rich man either and it's going to take me a long time to save up for some proper seats, harnesses and an AutoPower rollbar, but that's the safest way to go. But at least your not bolting your harnesses to the rear seat belt locations so you can crush your spine.

 

[speedracr79]

Thats funny thats where they said i should bolt my seats to the rear because its safer than using the harness bar. My kids are still little so no matter how hard i brake they wont hit the bar. So thats not an issue and i wont have anyone bigger back there so im not worried about that just wanted to get your opinions.

As for the mounting i have them mounted exactly where the oem ones were mounted so idk what their talking about. The bar is held with the bars mounted on the bottom so idk how they say it will move makes no since to me.

The rice comment made me laugh its funny that they said it was rice i see them in race cars so i guess sparco and AMS are ricers. I didnt know rice made it all the way to harness bars. Oh well, its not gonna keep me from installing it and im right there with you on the affordability im no rich man either so i make do with what i can

 

[Cleverfrog]

And I don't really want to tear up the inside the speed yet with welding a cage in.

 

[speedracr79]

Well heres a little more from my friendly conversation on the other forum heres the response i got after my last response.

This is their response.

That point is super strong no doubt. the stock belt attaches there.
However in a crash when your body applies force to that point via the belts, the belts pull that point downwards.

In a severe crash the sliding mechanism will fail, causing the mount to bottom out, which is ok as it can't go anywhere past that.
If you figure from the top point to the bottom is 6 inches. which translates to less than 3in of forward movement. (even less so since it's at an angle to your body's movement)

the way you have your bar mounted has the sliding mechanism at the very bottom.

All good and great right? I just said it won't go anywhere else from there right?

no.

in a crash your body will apply tension on the belts.
the tension from your belts will pull the bar forward which can't go forward.
the harness bar, the ties to the floor, and the chasis create a triangle.
If the sliding mech fails the harness bar will move up. simple geometry. as the harness bar moves up, the harness goes slack.

now, looking at your pictures, the angles in the said triangle are very small where the bar meets the chasis, as those get closer to 0 (bar and supports are perpendicular to the floor) the harness bar is completely ineffective.
this is where my "trap" comments come in.

If you insist on this bar. idealy, you want as much angle between the bar and the support rod. the best would be if the support rod is 45* to the floor.

Here you see if the bar moves up, even if the point where the bpillar is warped due to a roll, the simple angles will not allow the bar to move forward by much.

this to me is more ideal, as the supports also go into tension in a collision.

how the belt should be mounted

 

[Cleverfrog]

Idk, I've never really seen a wreck with a harness bar. If they allow them in SCCA or NASA I'd assume they were legit. Safety regulations are very high in motorsport.

 

[speedracr79]

exactly so i dont see how some people can swear that they are unsafe if they were they wouldnt use them like you say in all the racing events drag, drift, and autoX. To me their argument is useless the bar feels stiff and secure to me, its not going to move up or fall down andmy kids teeth are gonna be fine.

Hell if i get in a head on collision bad enough to make the bar move i have bigger problems than my bar moving and smashing teeth. So the bar is gonna stay and thats that just thought id bring over some of the debates other have about the bar and how unsafe they are. And to hear your info on the matter

 

[JDMazdaFamilia]

Sorry if this has been answered but do you need a Longer bolt than stock to fit the harness bar with the seat belts attatched?

Edit: oem seatbelts to be exact

 

[HKPRO5]

The kits usually come with grade 8 replacement bolts. ( a bit longer wouldnt hurt. lol)

 

[speedracr79]

Well the bar i got came with a bolt for the bottom but the top bolt the threads were only so long and the bolt wouldnt reach the threaded part on the pillar so for now what i did was use the from the bottom bolt of the oem belt for the top of the harness bar, but the bolt only goes so far, so im going to get a bolt that will go through the bar bracket and will sit flush.

What did you guys with bars do to solve that issue?

 

[Cleverfrog]

how the belt should be mounted

So, how the BELT should be mounted huh. what makes the c-pillar stronger than the b-pillar? Why have manufacturers been using the b-pillar from the beginning? That's not where the belt gets put anyways though. The diagram shows a 3-point harness. IDK. I want to see crash testing to prove this guys theory.

 

[speedracr79]

yeah i dont get either but oh well. but yeah id like to see some theorys on this too.

 

[Cleverfrog]

did you get that off of a honda forum or something?

 

[speedracr79]

no it was posted in my build thread on another mazda forum

 

[Alejo_NIN]

subbin to this as i will be looking on this in the future.

 

[Lewis7789]

Schroth has a lot of good install info on their site.
http://www.schrothracing.com/main/Media

I think they are using that mounting location for the angle of the belts when mounting them, not the location they are mounted to. To get the specified angle, you can mount them there. Anywhere but the floor.

 

[Cleverfrog]

I think for seats im going with corbeau forza's that are blue. I'd go with Fx1's if they were solid blue.