Haltech Setup, Ignition, and Trigger Angles

[jrodhotrod]

There has been some brief discussion of what us 2.0L Protege owners should do when setting-up the Ignition portion of our Haltech but I haven't seen definitive reasons why it should be one way over the other.

I have spent some time looking at various folks Haltech Maps and have seen the following in Iginition Setup:

Trigger Angle (deg BTDC) 67
Tooth Offset 3

Trigger Angle (deg BTDC) 51
Tooth Offset 3

Trigger Angle (deg BTDC) 73
Tooth Offset 3

Trigger Angle (deg BTDC) 55
Tooth Offset 3

Juan's Recommended Settings:

Ignition Setup:

​

Trigger input: Int. reluctor
Trigger gain: 0
Motronic mode:
Trigger Angle: BTDC : 67
Trigger type: Motronic
Number of teeth: 72
Tooth offset: 3
Coils in 4 cyl motor: 2
Spark mode: Direct fire
Engine Type: piston
Output type: constant charge
Coil charge time: 5
Output edge: falling

Main Setup:

​

Cylinders: 4
Load sensing by: manifold
Map sensor: 2 BAR or 3 BAR depending in the one used
RPM limits: 6800
RPM limit type: fuel cut
Units:
Rpm mode: 10500

Fuel Setup:

​

Ign/by: 2
Decel cut-off: Enable
Decl cut-off: 2000
Injection Type: multipoint
Post start limit: 55 above
Post start time limit: 60
Staging bar number: 10
Zero Throttle map: disable
Full throttle map: disable
Full throttle threshold: 95
Barometric lock: enabled
Barometric pressure lock at: 1013 mBars
Disable injector outputs: no

To recap,
​

Previous discussion has determined that the 10 degree timing lock works only when the Trigger angle is set at 47-51ish degrees. You cannot lock the timing at 10 degrees if you are using a higher value.

So one is to assume that when you use a higher value such as 67, 73, 71, etc... your timing values are not the true timing values. How can you determine just how many degrees of timing you are actually running and what is the value in setting the trigger angle higher than it actually is?



So, what's the best way to run, and why?

If you set the trigger angle at a value that doesn't enable you to lock the timing at 10 degrees how do you figure out what your actual timing values are?

 

[jrodhotrod]

Bump...

No arguments or reasoning as to why one way is better than the other?

 

[LinuxRacr]

The 67 Trigger angle seems to work best. I've tried a few others (like a trigger angle of 48 with my timiming marks lined up), but that was way too advanced, and I couldn't run hardly any timing at all.

 

[JDM Sam]

Yes, use trigger angle 67. The Haltech manual says for the Mazda trigger angle use 65 +/- 2 degrees for the trigger angle. Says b/c its similar to a Subaru setup and uses cam and crank angle sensors. Connect cam sensor to home input and crank to trigger input. Set both to reluctor. The haltech has a setting for the VIC control too.

 

[jrodhotrod]

Good to know.

So I never actually got installation instructions from HiBoost for my haltech e6x because Juan did the information himself. Does anyone have the instructions or know if what Sam posted above is the way Juan installs it?

 

[JDM Sam]

I have the E6X paper manual. Call Haltech if you want a copy. You can control VICS with the E6X also. Pretty damn cool.

 

[jrodhotrod]

I have the E6X manual as well, Just wondering if there was something that lists what Haltech wires get connected to which Pins/wire colors on the ECU as Juan installs it. AKA the HiBoost E6X install instructions.

Want to verify my installation as mentioned above, and just for my general education and knowledge it would be nice to have.

I will have things cracked open in the not so distant future to put in my J&S Safeguard.

 

[JDM Sam]

I have the E6X manual as well, Just wondering if there was something that lists what Haltech wires get connected to which Pins/wire colors on the ECU as Juan installs it. AKA the HiBoost E6X install instructions.

Want to verify my installation as mentioned above, and just for my general education and knowledge it would be nice to have.

I will have things cracked open in the not so distant future to put in my J&S Safeguard.

ahhh i see you could get the wire schmatic for the haltech and the pin out on the ecu and see which wires go in place of what. This is the only way I think you can verify.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Yes, use trigger angle 67. The Haltech manual says for the Mazda trigger angle use 65 +/- 2 degrees for the trigger angle. Says b/c its similar to a Subaru setup and uses cam and crank angle sensors. Connect cam sensor to home input and crank to trigger input. Set both to reluctor. The haltech has a setting for the VIC control too.

Is this how you have yours set up? I installed as per Juan's manual, and both the trigger and home wires go to my crank sensor. I'm familiar with the setup you speak of (I think it's on the last page or two of the manual) but didn't know if anyone was using it. It would be no big deal to move the home wire over to the CMP sensor, but I jsut wanted to know if it worked, cause with a trigger angle of 67* when I check with my timing light it's nowhere near close. IE my idle timing is currently set at 55* BTDC and it's actually only 15*BTDC according to the timing light...

 

[Maxx Mazda]

So I dove more into this, and the tooth offset must be wrong. TDC is actually 14 teeth after the trigger on the wheel, so I'll start there and see where it gets me. Have any of you guys actually checked your timing? Mine is WAY off with those settings...

 

[LinuxRacr]

Yes, I have a timing gun, and checked my timing too. It was way off, but then I researched, and found out that it is supposed to be with the Haltech.

Go here and start reading from post #659: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96267&highlight=Trigger+Angle&page=44

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Linux,

Thanks a bunch for the link. Read through it all, but it's wierd. I've dyno tuned, so I can see where I've picked up power and not just by the feel in my ass. My timing for all RPM's out of boost is around 55* (as advanced as the Haltech lets me go with that trigger angle.) And no knock, and the best throttle response ever. I can even run 40* at 10psi on the top end with no problem. In reality, it's not 40*. 40* timing under boost would destroy any engine in one revolution. Such is my dilemma.

Now I've researched some more. The trigger angle is not the culprit here. The tooth offset is. The tooth offset is basically how many teeth after the trigger TDC occurs. I'm like you, currently using the 67 / 3 setup, but I counted and the tooth offset should be closer to 20. The Haltech manual says to lock timing at 10*, set the trigger angle to 70* (most common for motronic wheels) and move the tooth offset until it's in the neighborhood. Then, fine tune it +/- 5* or so with the trigger angle.

Now, that being said I'm trying to figure out how the trigger angle and tooth offset relate to each other. Tooth offset is a no-brainer, but I believe trigger angle is a mere fine adjustment. I'm going to save my current map and basically start from scratch to see if I can get the marks to line up. Even with a trigger angle of 67*, the actual trigger is about 170* from TDC, so I go back to thinking...

And the manual also says to count the teeth in one cam revolution (so the wheel actually has 72 teeth) and I'm confused even more...

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Here is a pic. You can see it moves clockwise. Green is the missing home tooth, and red is the TDC.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Okay, did some more research and had an epiphany driving home. The missing tooth itself is in fact not the trigger. It's the "home" signal. The trigger tooth can be any tooth on the wheel in theory. So, we need to figure out which tooth it is. At that point, the Haltech will know where TDC is within 10* (each tooth is 10*) So, you fine tune it to the exact degree value with the trigger angle field.

As a matter of fact, I know the #3 tooth setting is WAY off. That would mean that the "home" signal is 3 teeth before the trigger angle, which would put the trigger at around 100* BTDC (3 teeth is 30* and the 67-70* trigger angle) so even still we come up about 60-70 degrees short. Which is why I've been able to run 55* of timing. It's in fact probably only 10* but because the rest of the settings are fubar'd it needs to be done.

So, the tooth offset identifies which tooth past the home IS the trigger, and the trigger angle tells the ECU where that trigger tooth is in relation to TDC. WOOT WOOT I got it! LOL!

Now to find the exact values. I'm golfing tomorrow, but I'll see if I can't get in there and do it this weekend...