Haltech E6X vs MPI Tuner - Help Choose

[InsidiousMSP]

MPNick, turboge had nothing but great success with his Haltech. And as you can see, azian6er loves his. As long as you have a knowledgeable tuner, I personally can't think of better bang for the buck. I'm sure your box is fine however.

As far as the injectors, it's not difficult to have them cleaned and flow tested if need be. The RX7 injectors are a great choice for the MSP.

 

[YP5 Toronto]

Juan is testing the F10 and the EX6 with the new windows based software....it is coming

 

[jrodhotrod]

of course tuning with the haltech is going to be far more strenuous and time consuming not to mention more difficult, but in the long run i believe it will be worth it.

i had my car running with the haltech off of maps braden (turboge) made for me for a 3 bar map sensor. the car ran so smooth it wasnt even a joke. Boost needed a lot of tuning but in idle and while cruising the car felt awesome. This was with the stock injectors. i have 440s waiting for me when i get the new turbo on but i cant touch them until my manifold comes in.

I think that for the average user who wants control over timing and fuel the mpi is a good purchase. It is just the fact that it isnt as wide spread as the haltech and no one would be familiar with the unit other than nick himself. Im sure nick is as committed to his product and customers as he says he is, but there is only one nick. Haltech has an entire forum devoted to tech support where there are tons of threads on past issues users had. There may not be anyone there to answer the phone but there is tons of info there.

I like the mpi tuner a lot and i think it is good for the average user who doesnt want to go all out with their car. The sheer functions associated with haltech far outweigh those of the mpi tuner (look at insidious' list) but it is true that the average end user will not need all of those.

One thing i definately like though is getting rid of that damn maf sensor. with the gm map sensor you can pretty much throw that maf in the trash. I dont think the mpi tuner has this function either.

i will inform many people of my progress here in the next few weeks as to my turbo install and haltech tuning. My mani should be here by thend of this week and then next week the turbo will be in and it will be off to the dyno.

-B

Most important to me is making good power while having a reliable ride as this is my daily driver and only car.

In one of your GI threads for selling your car mentioned you wanted something reliable and not as time consuming. Is this a reflection on the car not running as well as it should with the Haltech or did your choice in engine management not have anything to do with that?

 

[azian6er]

Most important to me is making good power while having a reliable ride as this is my daily driver and only car.

In one of your GI threads for selling your car mentioned you wanted something reliable and not as time consuming. Is this a reflection on the car not running as well as it should with the Haltech or did your choice in engine management not have anything to do with that?

haha. yeah that was a reflection of me not wanting to mait another month for my damn turbo manifold! i have been waiting over 4 mos for a manifold that i am almost positive isnt comming. at that point where i created that thread, i was very down and depressed that my manifold hadnt come in as of yet. it still hasnt come in but it will shortly. On top of having to wait for the mani, i then would have to go and tune the car via dyno to get it to run good. This wont be an easy task to get it to run flawlessly so thats where the feeling of hopelessness came from.

I have no doubt that the haltech will run sweet with my setup, it just sucks ass waiting for parts!

-B

 

[MPNick]

MPNick, turboge had nothing but great success with his Haltech. And as you can see, azian6er loves his. As long as you have a knowledgeable tuner, I personally can't think of better bang for the buck. I'm sure your box is fine however.

As far as the injectors, it's not difficult to have them cleaned and flow tested if need be. The RX7 injectors are a great choice for the MSP.

I know I see a lot of people love things. I would just like to hear from someone with a turbo Protege other then the seller of the product. I remember reading how great the ECM that Spool used was working great. Then after they stopped selling a kit Terry talked about cold starting problems. I even remember turboge posting how great the e-manage was untill he stopped selling them.

Bang for the buck? The MPI Tuner is $795.00. That gets you up to 8psi on a Protege and 10 on the MSP. If you are running alot more boost you would go for the dual injector setup, $345.00. Thats around $1,100.00 for all new parts. What does the Haltech cost with new injectors?


Thanks again

Later.........Nick

 

[YP5 Toronto]

The "stoppage" of the Haltech from Turboge has nothing to do with the unit not working properly.. as for the e-manage..he noted it did not work in the limited time he tested it with the MSP....Turboge bought an EVO....as for Terry.... he had to go out of business...

Please do not confuse people.

We all know in the game of aftermarket...Cheaper $Price$...does not always been better value.

NICK....not a flame...but concentrate on MARKETING the BENEFITS and SUCCESSES of your product...and AVOID getting caught into "mine is better than yours" or "theirs is not a good system because...."

Terry and Keith were always a perfect example of this...they NEVER had a bad thing to say about another's product...regardless of what was thrown at them.... is it any wonder why they were successful at building a relationship with this community.

You have done this in the past...and I stopped reading your posts.... I am POSITIVE that the MPI tuner has some great features...just dont cloud it.

 

[MPNick]

The "stoppage" of the Haltech from Turboge has nothing to do with the unit not working properly.. as for the e-manage..he noted it did not work in the limited time he tested it with the MSP....Turboge bought an EVO....as for Terry.... he had to go out of business...

Please do not confuse people.

We all know in the game of aftermarket...Cheaper $Price$...does not always been better value.

NICK....not a flame...but concentrate on MARKETING the BENEFITS and SUCCESSES of your product...and AVOID getting caught into "mine is better than yours" or "theirs is not a good system because...."

Terry and Keith were always a perfect example of this...they NEVER had a bad thing to say about another's product...regardless of what was thrown at them.... is it any wonder why they were successful at building a relationship with this community.

You have done this in the past...and I stopped reading your posts.... I am POSITIVE that the MPI tuner has some great features...just dont cloud it.

You must be joking. Why is it when someone point out facts the same people do not like it???????????????????????


Thanks again


Later...........Nick

 

[Atreyu]

The "stoppage" of the Haltech from Turboge has nothing to do with the unit not working properly.. as for the e-manage..he noted it did not work in the limited time he tested it with the MSP....Turboge bought an EVO....as for Terry.... he had to go out of business...

Please do not confuse people.

We all know in the game of aftermarket...Cheaper $Price$...does not always been better value.

NICK....not a flame...but concentrate on MARKETING the BENEFITS and SUCCESSES of your product...and AVOID getting caught into "mine is better than yours" or "theirs is not a good system because...."

Terry and Keith were always a perfect example of this...they NEVER had a bad thing to say about another's product...regardless of what was thrown at them.... is it any wonder why they were successful at building a relationship with this community.

You have done this in the past...and I stopped reading your posts.... I am POSITIVE that the MPI tuner has some great features...just dont cloud it.

Well said! As someone with almost 10 years of retail and sales experience, this has always been my biggest complaint with sales people in general.

Present your product and it's features and benefits without doing a full on comparo with every sales pitch. Comparing products blow by blow has many downsides.

It confuses the consumer as to YOUR specific products capability. Bringing another product features into a sales pitch can also backfire.

Bashing a competitor or similar product can cast a negative light your product and you as a sales person.

Theres a ton more reasons it's stupid to do especially when speaking on a forum to tons of people and not responding to a specific customer face to face.

 

[MPNick]

Well said! As someone with almost 10 years of retail and sales experience, this has always been my biggest complaint with sales people in general.

Present your product and it's features and benefits without doing a full on comparo with every sales pitch. Comparing products blow by blow has many downsides.

It confuses the consumer as to YOUR specific products capability. Bringing another product features into a sales pitch can also backfire.

Bashing a competitor or similar product can cast a negative light your product and you as a sales person.

Theres a ton more reasons it's stupid to do especially when speaking on a forum to tons of people and not responding to a specific customer face to face.

I am not a salesman and I am not looking to make friends. Any of my customers will tell you that I am there for them when ever they need help. I do not see how someone can make a choice on a product if they do not have facts. If you do not like to hear about what one product wll do over the other then maybe the MPI Tuner is not for you. I do not blow smoke up anyones ass. I know what we can do with our MPI Tuner and I know about standalones and how they work with a modern car. I do not see anyone from Haltech here to talk about their product, yet we are told about how good the system is. I do not see another Protege turbo owner here talking about how great the system works, yet some feel it is great.

As for Flying Protege and Spool and their posting on this forum. It does not show anything. They both pushed their products when they had to and they both no longer sell they product for the Protege market. When you stop letting people talk about facts you will have problems. Look at other threads where vendors were not called out on their claims. Now you see people out thousands of dollars.

Thanks again


Later............Nick

 

[YP5 Toronto]

Nick....keep diggin your own holes...I was trying to offer you some advise.... but once again... you insist in relying on "negative" marketing to sell your product... I was honestly trying to assist yo

It has nothing do with me not liking s***..... grow up.... you don't make it very easy for anyone to gain confidence in you or your product by the way you attack people....

Someone tell me if my post was attacking the MPI product? or saying it does not work? or saying that Nick is an idiot?

Nick...what point exactly do you have about the Haltech? Please tell me how it is not working in my car? how is it not producing 195 WHP at 8psi?

I can't believe this thread went this route....sorry.

 

[Atreyu]

Nick I was speaking in a general sense but it looks like you take absolutley everything to heart so.... whatever.

Great to see you here with a product you stand behind but the negativity is not the only way to sell the unit.

 

[MPNick]

Nick....keep diggin your own holes...I was trying to offer you some advise.... but once again... you insist in relying on "negative" marketing to sell your product... I was honestly trying to assist yo

It has nothing do with me not liking s***..... grow up.... you don't make it very easy for anyone to gain confidence in you or your product by the way you attack people....

Someone tell me if my post was attacking the MPI product? or saying it does not work? or saying that Nick is an idiot?

Nick...what point exactly do you have about the Haltech? Please tell me how it is not working in my car? how is it not producing 195 WHP at 8psi?

I can't believe this thread went this route....sorry.

If you have the system on your car then talk about it. Tell us how it works and if you have had any problems with it. Are you running bigger injectors? Do you have any colds start problems at all ever? Can you pass OBII testing? How easy is it to use the software? How is the tech support from Haltech? It would be good for you to talk about this then to try to help me sell my product. People need to have facts on how the product work.


Thanks again

Later.........NIck

 

[Little Beavis]

Yeah people need to chill. . .MPNick some times sounds like he is attacking, but he's pretty laid back, they're just "general questions". Although I can certainly understand how it might be "read" as an attack.

I would like to hear more about the Haltech as well. Starting issues, idling, fuel consumption, surging, software issues, just more details.

And if I read this correctly, azian6er doesn't even have the Haltech, but is "speaking highly of it"? How is that? If you aren't using it, explain how it is so great. (NOTE: THAT IS NOT AN ATTACK) I just want to know WHY people think it is so great. What are you comparing it to? Inquiring minds want to know, not because I want to say mine is better than yours, I just want to know because I like this s*** (just like you)!

 

[InsidiousMSP]

I didn't want to say it before, but honestly in my opinion, an extra injector seup on a Protege is ridiculous, and so is believing MAF is better than MAP -- that's why I'm not buying the 'MPI Tuner.' To each his own though I guess... we all have our own opinions and methods of tuning... (crazy)

As far as the Haltech goes, I'll try to get turboge to give some input in this thread.

 

[MPNick]

I didn't want to say it before, but honestly in my opinion, an extra injector seup on a Protege is ridiculous, and so is believing MAF is better than MAP -- that's why I'm not buying the 'MPI Tuner.' To each his own though I guess... we all have our own opinions and methods of tuning... (crazy)

As far as the Haltech goes, I'll try to get turboge to give some input in this thread.

This is based on what kind of testing? I am asking what kind of testing have you done or anyone done on a Protege to prove that the MAP is better and an extra injector is not the way to go? Please feel free to post what ever facts or testing results to have done or have seen.


Thanks again


Later.......Nick

 

[InsidiousMSP]

This is based on what kind of testing? I am asking what kind of testing have you done or anyone done on a Protege to prove that the MAP is better and an extra injector is not the way to go? Please feel free to post what ever facts or testing results to have done or have seen.


Thanks again


Later.......Nick

Please feel free to show me where I said I proved it was better.

in my opinion

My opinion is based on real world results from a variety of cars.

Why do I think an an extra injector setup is pointless? Firstly, you're obligated to use it because you're still running the stock ECU -- which we've already established is horrible in conjunction with our MAF. Using a piggyback to trick the ECU into thinking you're running bigger injectors is a bad idea, so you're left sticking a couple of injectors in front of the throttle body. That's exactly why EIC units were made, for simple fuel control without having to buy a standalone. I'm sure it works fine, but from what I've seen over time, extra injectors promote poor fuel distribution (especially towards the rear cylinders), leaving un-bernt fuel causing high carbon build on the pistons. I'd rather spend a couple of hundred extra, and control my bigger injectors on the runners they were made to work on.

As for the MAF, aside from the fact that they're restrictive and weak, become finicky with air reversion, and need to be tricked when it's voltage is maxed, they were made for emissions plain and simple. Sure, you can argue that they are more accurate at measuring air volume, but when it comes down to it, speed-density systems are prefered by nearly every tuner and aftermarket EMS developer (Haltech, AEM, EFI, Motec, Autronic, etc).

Thanks again.

 

[azian6er]

Yeah people need to chill. . .MPNick some times sounds like he is attacking, but he's pretty laid back, they're just "general questions". Although I can certainly understand how it might be "read" as an attack.

I would like to hear more about the Haltech as well. Starting issues, idling, fuel consumption, surging, software issues, just more details.

And if I read this correctly, azian6er doesn't even have the Haltech, but is "speaking highly of it"? How is that? If you aren't using it, explain how it is so great. (NOTE: THAT IS NOT AN ATTACK) I just want to know WHY people think it is so great. What are you comparing it to? Inquiring minds want to know, not because I want to say mine is better than yours, I just want to know because I like this s*** (just like you)!

i DID have it on my car before i had to take off my stock turbo and manifold. Granted this was for a short period of time, but the car ran more smoothly at idle as well as while cruising. Boost needed a bit of tuning but just at idle and cruising it was awesome. way better then stock. Also it is nice blowing off and not having to stall.

I never attacked nick, i said his unit would be good for the average user, which it is. I have dealt with the haltech maps and the only bad thing i can say about it is sometimes cold starts are a b****. You have to tune the coolant correction map to alleviate this problem but other than that, it is a very solid unit.

All together i paid 945+90+120+120 for haltech unit,3 bar map sensor,electronic boost controller and wrx 440 cc injectors. That in total is 1275 for a unit that has many more options than the mpi tuner.

the mpi i guess was about 1100 i think nick said with all the fixins so the price is decentl comparable.

I like haltech because it is a real, established hardcore tuning company. That is why i trust them.

-B

 

[TurfBurn]

This is a quote from another thread, check it out.


TurfBurn vbmenu_register("postmenu_966353", true);
Yellow Dragon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg Tim
I think MPNick tried bigger injectors in the MSP but was not happy them. I believe there was a cold start issue.(I believe Turfburn had some over the winter with the microtech) It's what ever floats your boat. Nick also gets more SW updates as time goes by to help better the unit and will send it to you as he gets it, so there will always be better features added to it.

Turfburn:

Uh.. that's to say the least with my issues... I have a "cold start" issue in 60 degree weather.... and I'm not rich!! LOL... I'm working on that now. But yes big ass injectors and cold ass weather don't seem to mix all that well. But if you can deal with turning the car over a couple of times... letting it idle for 5-10 minutes before you go anywhere... then the "cold start" issue isn't a big deal. If I find a tuning solution for it (I'm playing with timing, lean and rich mixtures and the like) I'll certainly be happy to share it.

I've worked with both the microtech and the MPI. And I have to say the MPI is easier to tune and in a lot of ways easier to work with. The microtech interface is a bit more advanced, but the MPI gets the job done and is very straight forward. The microtech can actually be run as a piggy but I'd take the MPI over it any day for that.

Thats just one of the very happy people with the stand alone and all of its "complete control"

Thanks again

Later........NIck

I am actually quite happy with the control I have and the Microtech. I wouldn't change away from it at this point, but Terry hurdled a lot of the issues for me when he had the car. But I also think the MPI is a great unit. I like them both and it all depends on what you want as to which I'd personally choose. Just my straight up opinion that they are both great tools but probably show their best in slightly different situations between them.

Customer support and phone tech support are priceless to say the least. Never know when you'll hit something crazy weird and a good ear willing to help is something no pricetag can encompass.

 

[Little Beavis]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up azian6er. . .just seemed odd to me since you said you were still waiting on parts and such.

This is what threw me:

I have no doubt that the haltech will run sweet with my setup, it just sucks ass waiting for parts!

-B

I hope it works well and we get to see / hear of big results soon. After you tune the Haltech some more, we'd be interested to hear of your experience (tuning can suck big time and other times it just kind of clicks). Let's hope for the latter!

As for extra injectors. . .If you have a P5 or MP3 or EX or anything other than a MSP, they have their benefit, because those ECUs work fine just driving around out of boost. So, you can use extras to fire under boost, much like a EIC (I agree), and if you put them in the runners, then you don't have any "mixing" issues (whether they exist or not, but let's not get into that discussion).

 

[YP5 Toronto]

- Tricked versus Control

- Extra Injectors before the TB vs Larger Injectors in the FACTORY LOCATION using the FACTORY FUEL RAIL AND THE FACTORY Connections.

Nick...honestly if you had a choice (and this will truelly show a thing)... would you choose an extra injector(s) setup prior to the TB versus larger primary injectors? THIS IS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT BOTH SETUPS ARE TUNNED EQUALLY WELL. What would you choose for your own personal car?

What happens when you are in boost (extra injectors firing) and I come off the throttle? where does that Air/Fuel mixture go now that the TB is closed? What happens when you are on and off the throttle? where does the air/fuel mixture go?

We all know that the FS engine does not equally distribute AIR to the individual cycl.... how do you compensate for the Air/Fuel mixture not evenly being allocated to each cycl?

For me.....common sense would only warrant the desire for larger primary injectors....whether you are know very little about engine or an expert.... under all the same conditions... extra injectors firing prior to the TB is not the route to go... IMO. Now, if you have a CRAPPY set Haltech (or any other system) versus a properly tuned MPI then the discussion is done.... you MUST give the benefit of the doubt that the HALTECH programmed (in this case by Hiboost) is working well. Juan has sold so many kits across NA...that he KNOWS his s***. Just like a believe NICK knows his stuff also.