Haltech E6X vs MPI Tuner - Help Choose

[mazda2002]

On any fuel managment system, does the amount of settings, number of different places on the map that you can adjust change anything? Wouldn't a unit that has a more detailed map run a more constant a/f mixture? If so, do both these unit have the same tipe of mapping?

 

[Kooldino]

MPI is probably the simpler way to go. Just pick up some extra injectors.

Install time will be faster, there will be less to configure, and you'll walk away with more money left in your pocket.

 

[jrodhotrod]

Thanks for all the input guys, you are informing my buying decision with this great discussion. It's very nice to a see a tuning thread not go totally downhill.

Little Beavis... You said:

As for extra injectors. . .If you have a P5 or MP3 or EX or anything other than a MSP, they have their benefit, because those ECUs work fine just driving around out of boost. So, you can use extras to fire under boost, much like a EIC (I agree), and if you put them in the runners, then you don't have any "mixing" issues (whether they exist or not, but let's not get into that discussion).

Are you implying that the Extra Injectors aren't ideal on the mazdaspeed (my car) because the factory mapping is designed for boost?

And the issue of fuel mix per cylinder is an interesting one, how are we certain that all cylinders are getting the right amount of fuel with injectors in the intake piping, especially under higher loads where proper a/f ratio is going to be very important?

 

[Bigg Tim]

The types of injectors are a personal preference. There are plenty of cars (in general) running bigger injectors and there are some high HP cars running extra ones so they must work. As for improper mix, it has not been proven if it mixes improperly to the last cylinder. If I remember, paulmp3 saw his 2 center cylinders discolored a bit when he checked them so that say's that it is mixing in the last cylinder. I don't know what his conclusions were with the center ones, but I can't imagine the first and last cylinders getting fuel and the center ones not getting the proper amount.

I think it is best to leave "which injector location is better" discusion for another thread. We can go back and forth for 50 pages and not get anywhere. I would like to hear more on the Haltech, since I have no personal experience with it. After all that is what this thread is for, info on both products!

 

[jrodhotrod]

Yes more info on the haltech please!

 

[MPNick]

What happens when you are in boost (extra injectors firing) and I come off the throttle? where does that Air/Fuel mixture go now that the TB is closed? What happens when you are on and off the throttle? where does the air/fuel mixture go?

We all know that the FS engine does not equally distribute AIR to the individual cycl.... how do you compensate for the Air/Fuel mixture not evenly being allocated to each cycl?

If you looked at our software you would see that the extra injector would not fire when you are off of boost or anywhere near closed throttle. You can go on and off throttle as many times as you like and you will never get fuel spray on the throttle body when closed.

If we all know that air is not equally distributed from cylinder to cylinder then that is more of a reason to use the throttle body injectors. This way if cylinder three is getting only 21% of air flow then it will get 21% of the fuel from the extra injectors. If we use your own thinking then the extra injector will help even out the AFR from cylinder to cylinder. If we use your thinking then the bigger injectors we only make more of the problem from cylinder to cylinder.

Are you running bigger injectors? The fastest MSP on this forum is running the MPI Tuner, our 88mm MAF and extra injectors in front of the throttle body.


Thanks again


Later........Nick

 

[MPNick]

Hey Guys,

I am going with engine management of some kind and I am down to 2 choices, the Haltech E6X and MPI Tuner.

Pros and Cons of each unit would helpful along with ease of tuning/installation.

I know we have folks out there running both, help me decide what I should get. Why did you go with the unit that you did and how is it working out for you? Any problems with the unit?

I want something that will be able to run 10-12 psi daily and more at the track on better fuel (in california we have pisswater 91 octane). I will be upgrading internals and possibly going with the Disco Potato Turbo. All my other mods are in the list, but basically I have done everything to support the additional power.

Thanks guys!

I think it may help if you ask for people who have one or the other systems up and running on their car. You are getting to much feed back with no facts as to how the system may work on the Protege. ry and asl for facts and not how someone feels that it may work.


Thanks agian

Later.........NIck

 

[jrodhotrod]

Are you running bigger injectors? The fastest MSP on this forum is running the MPI Tuner, our 88mm MAF and extra injectors in front of the throttle body.


Thanks again


Later........Nick

Could you enlighten me as to who this is so I can get some feedback? You can PM the info to me if you don't want to post it here. The only MSP that I am aware of running the MPI is 505Zoom and I have spent a good amount of time talking to Rich.

 

[jrodhotrod]

I think it may help if you ask for people who have one or the other systems up and running on their car. You are getting to much feed back with no facts as to how the system may work on the Protege. ry and asl for facts and not how someone feels that it may work.


Thanks agian

Later.........NIck

That was the idea, was looking for real world experiences with the product, and I am getting some of that mixed in with opinions, but that's cool. It's all an educational experience.

 

[MPNick]

Could you enlighten me as to who this is so I can get some feedback? You can PM the info to me if you don't want to post it here. The only MSP that I am aware of running the MPI is 505Zoom and I have spent a good amount of time talking to Rich.

If you look at the MSP 1/4 mles times you will see Dean M. The fastest MSP on this forum. He as my MPI Tuner, dual injector in front of the throttle body and our 80mm MAF.


Thanks again


Later..........NIck

 

[LinuxRacr]

The types of injectors are a personal preference. There are plenty of cars (in general) running bigger injectors and there are some high HP cars running extra ones so they must work. As for improper mix, it has not been proven if it mixes improperly to the last cylinder. If I remember, paulmp3 saw his 2 center cylinders discolored a bit when he checked them so that say's that it is mixing in the last cylinder. I don't know what his conclusions were with the center ones, but I can't imagine the first and last cylinders getting fuel and the center ones not getting the proper amount.

I think it is best to leave "which injector location is better" discusion for another thread. We can go back and forth for 50 pages and not get anywhere. I would like to hear more on the Haltech, since I have no personal experience with it. After all that is what this thread is for, info on both products!

What type/brand of injectors did Paul use? I remember that Wagner set his TB injection up, and may have used different injectors. Most modern injectors have at least 4-6 nozzle holes for atomizing/spraying the fuel into a fine mist. Some have like one nozle hole that in effect streams the fuel. Not probabaly the best for the TB application at all.

 

[Little Beavis]

Are you implying that the Extra Injectors aren't ideal on the mazdaspeed (my car) because the factory mapping is designed for boost?

I only stated that so as to avoid turning this thread into a MSP ECU sucks thread. Didn't want to hear about the hesitation and other crap. Was just implying that Proteges (other than the MSP) seem to have no issue driving around without hesitating and acting too wierd. So, you could use that for out of boost and extras for in boost. My youngest brother has a MSP and has no noticeable hesitation and assorted crap (I felt none while driving it. . .other than it was slower than my car). So, that was my point.

And to my other point, if you are truly worried about fuel delivery, put an injector in each runner of the IM and stop worrying!

 

[PaulMP3]

If I remember, paulmp3 saw his 2 center cylinders discolored a bit when he checked them so that say's that it is mixing in the last cylinder. I don't know what his conclusions were with the center ones, but I can't imagine the first and last cylinders getting fuel and the center ones not getting the proper amount.

i originally thought this was the case, but i looked at my spare motor from a NA stock MP3 and the valves has the same discoloration.. but my first was way blacker.

im probally just paranoid... like always. but i should be running 12psi on a stock engine.

 

[PaulMP3]

What type/brand of injectors did Paul use? I remember that Wagner set his TB injection up, and may have used different injectors. Most modern injectors have at least 4-6 nozzle holes for atomizing/spraying the fuel into a fine mist. Some have like one nozle hole that in effect streams the fuel. Not probabaly the best for the TB application at all.

i believe mine have 6 nozzles.. I will find out from wagner what brand.

 

[azian6er]

the only reason Nick that the fastest msp is running your mpi tuner is because he was able to up the boost safely. If there was another easy option like an afc to run up to 14psi safely then you would see a lot more msps running 13s. Im sure if someone took time to tune the haltech it would run exactly the same times as the msp with the mpi tuner if not better. Launch control is a nice function. SO is boost by rpms.

It is true the fastest msp is using your mpi, but that is one of the only msps with mangement thus far. im sure turboge's msp would have run damn good at the track too but he never went.

-B

 

[azian6er]

oh and i thought Blkzoomzoom was running the fastest times now... 13.7 .. and he is on the stock pcm and 1 less pound of boost then the guy using your tuner...

-B

 

[orangezoom]

If you look at the MSP 1/4 mles times you will see Dean M. The fastest MSP on this forum. He as my MPI Tuner, dual injector in front of the throttle body and our 80mm MAF.


Who is the fastest? I want to know, also what are his times?

 

[MPNick]

the only reason Nick that the fastest msp is running your mpi tuner is because he was able to up the boost safely. If there was another easy option like an afc to run up to 14psi safely then you would see a lot more msps running 13s. Im sure if someone took time to tune the haltech it would run exactly the same times as the msp with the mpi tuner if not better. Launch control is a nice function. SO is boost by rpms.

It is true the fastest msp is using your mpi, but that is one of the only msps with mangement thus far. im sure turboge's msp would have run damn good at the track too but he never went.

-B

The only reason he can boost safely is because we have control over the fuel and spark. If , if and if. How about we keep to facts and not if and if. You sound a little foolish now. Get one of these great running cars and take it track or the dyno and see what it does. Then see if it will pass OBDII testing. Please stop with this type of posting. It does not prove anything at all. All it shows is that if and maybe down the road sometime there may be a product that might be made that on a good day will somehow come close to working as good as what is out there right now.


Thanks again


Later............Nick

 

[orangezoom]

The only reason he can boost safely is because we have control over the fuel and spark. If , if and if. How about we keep to facts and not if and if. You sound a little foolish now. Get one of these great running cars and take it track or the dyno and see what it does. Then see if it will pass OBDII testing. Please stop with this type of posting. It does not prove anything at all. All it shows is that if and maybe down the road sometime there may be a product that might be made that on a good day will somehow come close to working as good as what is out there right now.


Thanks again


Later............Nick

Mine works great

 

[orangezoom]

CAn I see this dyno? Did I miss it?