global warming

[MinivanHunter]

Did anyone see 60 Minutes a couple of Sundays ago? There was a very interesting interview with one of the scientist that works for NASA on what is really going on. Homedude said that if we don't begin to decrease our output in 10 years, it will be too late to turn it around.

I did see that interview, I found what C'BS' intentionally excluded from their staged interview to be more important than what was said. The scientest, James Hansen, publicly endorsed Democrat John Kerry for president and received a $250,000 grant from the charitable foundation headed by Kerry's wife. Furthermore, he acted as a consultant in February to former Vice President Al Gore's slide show presentations on "global warming," which Gore presented around the country. I found it interesting that CBS went out of their way not to report that major conflict of interest with this "scientist."

 

[neoturner]

i didn't read the article, but i think global warming is overhyped and is only partly effected by man's involvement. i think the earth's natural heating and cooling cycles play a much larger part but then environmentalists see that for the last 20-30 years the temperature has been going up they automatically assume it's man's fault. they often lack the big picture view and only look at a small period in time to support their point, thinking they can change the world. imagine if man were created and lived its entire life during the last ice age, the environmentalists would have blamed the end of the ice age on pollution and man just because the environment changed from what it was previously

I did the cardinal sin of not reading the entire thread but before I opened it I knew it was started by somebody on the concearned side of the argument and soon after a response like this was sure to appear.

Just had this debat at a buddies house. These are typical liberal and conservative views. So if your response is that global warming is a naturally occuring event and it is happening then what kind of preperation are you doing for it? What is your "Big Picture" solution if we do hit another ice age. bout 50% of this country would have to relocate and I imagine Mexico would become prime realestate at that point (how ironic that would be)

Can we agree that we are headed for a major shift in climate and prepare or at least THINK about it.

Its a sudden change once the ocean currents stop so 10 years won't be enough time for a world that is getting packed as it is.

 

[jred321]

So if your response is that global warming is a naturally occuring event and it is happening then what kind of preperation are you doing for it? What is your "Big Picture" solution if we do hit another ice age.

there is none really. people will die, and the entire species may become extinct. humans are animals first and foremost. we can do so much with technology to help, but cold killed dinosaurs and there's no reason to disillusion ourselves by thinking we are different. humans have only been around for a small part of the earth, it will be here whether we are or not. i'm sure when dinosaurs were around they thought they were master of the planet and they'd always be around. why are we exempt from the laws of the earth? if we can come up with a solution, then great, we'll do the best we can like the dinosaurs did the best they can, but if we're wiped out then so be it, earth will continue and nobody in the future will care we ever existed other than as a curiosity by bones that are dug up

 

[neoturner]

there is none really. people will die, and the entire species may become extinct. humans are animals first and foremost. we can do so much with technology to help, but cold killed dinosaurs and there's no reason to disillusion ourselves by thinking we are different. humans have only been around for a small part of the earth, it will be here whether we are or not. i'm sure when dinosaurs were around they thought they were master of the planet and they'd always be around. why are we exempt from the laws of the earth? if we can come up with a solution, then great, we'll do the best we can like the dinosaurs did the best they can, but if we're wiped out then so be it, earth will continue and nobody in the future will care we ever existed other than as a curiosity by bones that are dug up

don't doubt the resiliance of the humanity. we have the technology now to generate an atmosphere on another planet. resources are another issue but if it was the only way out bill gates would be up there with a shovel. an ice age won't freeze the entire planet. A lot of people will certianly die and I think we are more likely to be wiped out by the chaos than anything else. Or the disease from the close quarters. Some asshole will survive.

 

[jred321]

for a while maybe. will a few survivors be enough to save the species though? plenty of species survived through the ice age, only a few of them are still around though and many of them have changed greatly into an entirely new species. will homo sapiens be able to? will it be another similar creature to us that survives instead? who knows, but i can't say humans are very well suited to survive climate extremes and low food supply for long periods of time

 

[neoturner]

Humans have a dependence on technology as well and community. I mean how many people would starve if you told them they had to go kill their dinner with a spear, gut it and cook it up.

I saw one of the things that is happening now is that the climate changes are affecting the rice fields in Asia which supply something like 1/3 of the worlds food intake. I think more than a few will survive the next ice age. the equator (wherever that will be at the time with the pole shift we got going on) will be entirely habitable. Prior versions of humans didn't have the ability to travel or know where the hot spots were. Migration took thousands of years where as we could do it in a few.

 

[1sty]

but i can't say humans are very well suited to survive climate extremes and low food supply for long periods of time

As a species we are one if not the best as we have the ability to be more resourceful then any other.

Most would die off from sheer stupidy or the fact that they should not have survived this long in the first place. Or they need something other then themselves to survive like medication. Their boned.

As a testament to this, consider the Jewish men and women that survived concentration camps. It was a horrible situation that is an amazing example of the strength and resiliance of the human body.

 

[bazooka joe]

Humans have a dependence on technology as well and community. I mean how many people would starve if you told them they had to go kill their dinner with a spear, gut it and cook it up.

naw, most people would go a hire someone!!

 

[jred321]

As a species we are one if not the best as we have the ability to be more resourceful then any other.

i don't doubt this, but say the ice age lasts 10,000+ years. by that time fossil fuels would be tough to come by, and trees would be pretty scarce too, so we'd have to come up with a new way to heat ourselves. animals would only be able to survive in limited numbers, so food also would become scarce. i'd say that if we were able to survive because we'd have to go through such hardships we'd have adapted into another species or a very different version of ours to cope, so no longer homo sapiens but something else. maybe a few thousand people could live near the equator and survive as-is, but then human nature comes into play. everybody wants to be one of those thousands, and that just can't happen, so who makes the decision?



not that i expect a definite answer, just playing devil's advocate to show that things aren't so black and white as some believe

 

[jred321]

As a testament to this, consider the Jewish men and women that survived concentration camps. It was a horrible situation that is an amazing example of the strength and resiliance of the human body.

but it can only do that for so long. if the war hadn't ended nobody would have survived despite their will. some would have lasted longer than others but none could have survived like that forever

 

[1sty]

i don't doubt this, but say the ice age lasts 10,000+ years. by that time fossil fuels would be tough to come by, and trees would be pretty scarce too, so we'd have to come up with a new way to heat ourselves. animals would only be able to survive in limited numbers, so food also would become scarce. i'd say that if we were able to survive because we'd have to go through such hardships we'd have adapted into another species or a very different version of ours to cope, so no longer homo sapiens but something else. maybe a few thousand people could live near the equator and survive as-is, but then human nature comes into play. everybody wants to be one of those thousands, and that just can't happen, so who makes the decision?



not that i expect a definite answer, just playing devil's advocate to show that things aren't so black and white as some believe

We would develope different traights, probably not enough to become a different species. The real answer to the numbers question is Nature. Consider the majority of people that can not survive on there own be it from needing medican or they are handicapped or even mentaly ill. Wipe them off the board, their gonners. Now add up all the people with immune deficiancies and add up all the people wiped out by desease and even geography. After all its going to be colder or even un habitable in some areas compared to others. So in the end, alot of people are done for and then as you mention competition will settle up amoung those left.


Now this all takes one GIANT leap though, its the idea that all this happend to us instantly. Something like an Ice age doesn't always creep up. So if its by natural design then we would gradualy get colder and colder and we are advanced enough to combat that depending on the time line.

One way or another humanity would survive, and if I am wrong, you won't be around to say...told ya so

 

[1sty]

but it can only do that for so long. if the war hadn't ended nobody would have survived despite their will. some would have lasted longer than others but none could have survived like that forever

You ignored the other half of the equition, they were not allowed there full resourcefulness to survive. As an exmple, they were forced to work, ice age man would not be.

Perhaps a better example is the famished state of many people in africa but yet they survive.

 

[neoturner]

Now this all takes one GIANT leap though, its the idea that all this happend to us instantly. Something like an Ice age doesn't always creep up. So if its by natural design then we would gradualy get colder and colder and we are advanced enough to combat that depending on the time line.

One way or another humanity would survive, and if I am wrong, you won't be around to say...told ya so

It's the warm that is gradual and the time we should be spending now to asses the rapid transition into an ice age. the dilution of the north atlantic will turn the currents off like a switch and then it will be too late. 10 years is not enough time to plan but for some reason I think the chaos is the only way it's going to happen. Markets will crumble and the rich will go poor overnight and all their s*** will be worthless along with money unless you are burining it.

 

[hello2000]

is anyone going to check out the movie hosted by Al Gore?

link: http://www.climatecrisis.net/

 

[SciFiMan]

I'll go see the movie. But this topic is almost a religious thing; if you already believe, or not, your mind probably won't be changed. I suppose some people are on the fence though and are just waiting for a preponderance of data one way or the other. Although people like that are easily swayed back and forth and can't think for themselves.

 

[Fear]

Cow farts.