FS-DE Oil System

[richs970]

So I'm in the process of setting up a turbo build for my P5 (70k mi). I just read all 32 pages of this thread and it seems like the system setup is real sensible, even for someone who probably isn't going to the track at all.

I know a lot of this was probably answered, but my lack of experience and 32 pages left me with some questions....

1. If I use the typical setup discussed here, what is the best way to tap the oil feed for the turbo. Is it the T connection similar to the OEM MSP setup that has been mentioned (seen it discussed elsewhere), or is there an easier way to tap into this system. It's my understanding that neither sandwich plate nor filter relocation leaves any extra outlets?? Oil sender lines can tap into other locations on the block?

2. If I'm tapping into the oil pan for the turbo return, it makes sense to tap into it a second time for this obviously. But do I have to remove the engine to do this. I was under the impression I could remove the pan without removing the engine, tap it, and put it back on.

3. If I bought a new pump, had it treated, and replaced my old one (since i can't have the car sidelined for 6 weeks or more), will I be able to do this without removing the engine? I got mixed answers when I looked back.

Sorry if these quesitons are a little dumb lol, and thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

2. You need to remove the transmission to remove the support plate, but not the engine. There are two little 10mm bolts inside the transmission housing that need to come off.

 

[MP3racer]

So I'm in the process of setting up a turbo build for my P5 (70k mi). I just read all 32 pages of this thread and it seems like the system setup is real sensible, even for someone who probably isn't going to the track at all.

I know a lot of this was probably answered, but my lack of experience and 32 pages left me with some questions....

1. If I use the typical setup discussed here, what is the best way to tap the oil feed for the turbo. Is it the T connection similar to the OEM MSP setup that has been mentioned (seen it discussed elsewhere), or is there an easier way to tap into this system. It's my understanding that neither sandwich plate nor filter relocation leaves any extra outlets?? Oil sender lines can tap into other locations on the block?

2. If I'm tapping into the oil pan for the turbo return, it makes sense to tap into it a second time for this obviously. But do I have to remove the engine to do this. I was under the impression I could remove the pan without removing the engine, tap it, and put it back on.

3. If I bought a new pump, had it treated, and replaced my old one (since i can't have the car sidelined for 6 weeks or more), will I be able to do this without removing the engine? I got mixed answers when I looked back.

Sorry if these quesitons are a little dumb lol, and thanks in advance for any help.

1.) Most of the research I have seen from turbo manufacturers they prefer the oil supply for the turbo to come from the oil pressure sending unit port on the block. Also most of the serious engine builders agree that the most accurate oil pressure readings also come from this same port requiring the "T" that Mazda used OEM.

2.) Yes if you are only removing the pan you should be able to do this without removing the engine. However, if you want to remove the aluminum girdle under it you will need to at least remove the tranny as Maxx Mazda mentioned.

3.) While I have not done this myself, I have heard it is "possible". To accomplish this the aluminum girdle is best to be removed as well. I know that some aftermarket service manuals say that the oil pump can be changed with the girdle in place but I would think the gasket surface between the bottom of the oil pump and the top of the girdle would be difficult to maintain a good thickness of RTV.

 

[CustomMSP]

Hey guys,

The new engine is alive with the coated oil pump! I'm seeing about the same oil pressure as with the OE pump if anybody is curious to know.

 

[MP3racer]

Hey guys,

The new engine is alive with the coated oil pump! I'm seeing about the same oil pressure as with the OE pump if anybody is curious to know.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you are not using the whole system. You only have a coated (or blueprinted) oil pump without an external PRV.

Just wanted to make sure everyone was aware of the conditions when you state "seeing about the same oil pressure".

 

[CustomMSP]

Correct me if I'm wrong but you are not using the whole system. You only have a coated (or blueprinted) oil pump without an external PRV.

Just wanted to make sure everyone was aware of the conditions when you state "seeing about the same oil pressure".

Yes, my apology! I have just the coated oil pump.

 

[MP3racer]

Yes, my apology! I have just the coated oil pump.

Hey, no problem...just wanted to make sure it was clear (thought)

With just the coated pump you should see a slight increase in your oil pressure across the board if you are using exactly the same oil weight and type as the pump will work closer to the intended specs

 

[Packerfan]

Hey whats up guys glad to say I am still running Docs system and to be honest its the best upgrade I have done to this money pit of a car to build. LOL. Consistent 10psi per thousand RPM up to redline. As for the tranny removal there is a write up somewhere on here with pics of where you can drill the bell housing to access those 10mm bolts with a 1/4 drive 10mm socket with a 12 inch ext.I have done it and once you drill the holes (2) you can use a flashlight to see the bolts. THANKS DOC

 

[Circuit]

But don't you get the shavings inside the trans then?!?

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

But don't you get the shavings inside the trans then?!?

no. jjust on the inside of the bellhousing. where the flywheel is.. and i HIGHLY doubt it to be that bad.

 

[Packerfan]

Its only aluminum and if you drill slowly nothing should get inside not that it would matter.

 

[richs970]

Actually Focus told me the exact same thing. I wonder if I can find that write up. If anyone knows where it is LMK. I got a hold of a tapped upper oil pan, and I noticed in the manual that those two bolts were under the trans housing.

Its only aluminum and if you drill slowly nothing should get inside not that it would matter.

 

[MP3racer]

Hey whats up guys glad to say I am still running Docs system and to be honest its the best upgrade I have done to this money pit of a car to build. LOL. Consistent 10psi per thousand RPM up to redline. As for the tranny removal there is a write up somewhere on here with pics of where you can drill the bell housing to access those 10mm bolts with a 1/4 drive 10mm socket with a 12 inch ext.I have done it and once you drill the holes (2) you can use a flashlight to see the bolts. THANKS DOC

Packerfan...great to hear from you!!(2thumbs)

Glad to hear that the system is still working and thanks for the good words!!

For all those that don't know we developed the system on our in-house race car and have taken the longevity of the race motors and bearings from less than three hours capability to over two seasons worth of use!

Thanks Packerfan for the write-up on the bellhousing modification. Should help those looking at installing the system without removing the motor.

 

[vinnie mack]

i second the notion of finding the thread of where to drill into the bell housing... anyone? I searched but found nothing.

 

[richs970]

i second the notion of finding the thread of where to drill into the bell housing... anyone? I searched but found nothing.

I did find this one.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4864732&highlight=bell+housing#post4864732

One of the members was saying that some engines (maybe 03.5) come with the holes predrilled in the bell housing and plugged. I've looked at my P5 though, and there are definitely no predrilled holes. Either way, this thread will at least point out their location. Luckily I have a whole separate upper oil pan, so I can use that to make sure I drill in the right place. Most people don't have that luxury I guess.

I'll have to post a little how-to if I can get it done correctly.

 

[vinnie mack]

hmmm i have an 03.5 but it probably depends on build date. Once i get mine up in the air i will be crossing my fingers for those holes to be there.

thanks for the thread link,

 

[Crazee D]

OK, plumbing and install questions!

A. Do we have install instructions? Have we determined if it can be completed while engine remains installed?

B. I need to figure out how to plumb the ext PRV along with filter relocate and possibly a cooler if I can find a place to mount it too.

From what I recall, bypass and relocate are -10 lines

so Oil path out of bypass goes:
1. To external PRV (with return to oil pan) then
2. To the oil filter
3. Thermostat switch before return to block OR
4. To oil cooler when operating temp is reached then
5. back to block via return ("T" off thermostat??)

I need to get lines and fittings for all this craziness. How much overall length would be reasonable to order? I am looking at braided lines by the foot.

Oh, and a part number for an oil pump gasket?

 

[Maxx Mazda]

A. It can be done, but it would damn near be faster and easier to take the engine out. You need to drop that side of the engine anyway or you can't get the timing belt pulley off. Good luck trying to re-time the engine with it still in the car.

Gasket Mazda part number: 8527-77-739

 

[Signature Sound]

B: I think it would be wise to have the filter last in the system. Your motor is what needs to be protected the most. Check out my profile. There are a ton of photos of the system in there. I chose to use a stainless Peterson filter. They are washable and way bigger so capacity is increased. Moroso makes a very nice block off adapter.

You have the option for AN-12 lines with the PRV. I chose to go with them but it is a pain in the ass to convert the block off. The block off has BPT thread to flare AN-10. The -10 is plenty big enough but the pump is DEFINITELY strong to push thru -12.

So my suggestion would be from block off out to PRV in. PRV out to thermostat. Thermostat to oil cooler in. Oil cooler out to oil filter in. Oil filter out to engine. And of course PRV return to oil pan or MBSP.

All of us with this system agree that this is a necessity for our motors.

 

[Packerfan]

A. It can be done, but it would damn near be faster and easier to take the engine out. You need to drop that side of the engine anyway or you can't get the timing belt pulley off. Good luck trying to re-time the engine with it still in the car.

Gasket Mazda part number: 8527-77-739

Maybe in your world it would be. LOL Not that bad a job anyone doing this now should be doing a timing belt by now anyway.