Actually, some of the pumps from non-OEM sources have been reboxed OEM pumps! Also, most of the pumps we have done have all been in the same range as far as the clearances go. The only downside I have seen with the aftermarket pumps is poor casting quality in some of them. I would look at the pump before you buy it. You can tell quickly how good the casting looks...
FS-DE Oil System
- Thread starter MP3racer
- Start date
Actually, some of the pumps from non-OEM sources have been reboxed OEM pumps! Also, most of the pumps we have done have all been in the same range as far as the clearances go. The only downside I have seen with the aftermarket pumps is poor casting quality in some of them. I would look at the pump before you buy it. You can tell quickly how good the casting looks...
For those of you that are already running this oil pump and external PRV..... what steps did you take when you fired the engine up for the first time?
I have a freshly built motor, bored .020" over, forged pistons and rods... and we are kind of scared of firing it up for the first time without a baseline of where the PRV should be set. We just want to make sure we have the oil pressure in a safe area when we fire it up for the first time.
Any info is greatly appreciated!
I have a freshly built motor, bored .020" over, forged pistons and rods... and we are kind of scared of firing it up for the first time without a baseline of where the PRV should be set. We just want to make sure we have the oil pressure in a safe area when we fire it up for the first time.
Any info is greatly appreciated!
Jaysanooch
Member
- :
- 2003.5 Msp
Haven't installed it yet and I wondered the same thing. Doc B told me that full tight is full pressure...as you loosen the pressure goes down. He also mentioned that depending on the grade of your break in oil, best to keep the pressure high for first start up and slowly lower the pressure.
Signature Sound
Banned
- :
- stock G15
half way is good. you can tell what is halfway by screwing the allen bolt all the way until its seated. thats about where I keep mine for DD. your pressure will be a bit high at first (70-80) while cold, and then it will come down to normal (10-20psi) at idle when it warms up. if you built the motor right, your assembly lube will be there to protect at initial start up. I had the same concern, but dont worry.
justanothermp5
Banned
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- Rust Bucket
just pull the inj. fuse and crank it for a few seconds before you start it so you get some oil in the system,
thats what i did before i started my built motor for the first time, but i made sure i used plenty of assembly lube haha
thats what i did before i started my built motor for the first time, but i made sure i used plenty of assembly lube haha
Awesome!! Great advice guys!! Good to see everyone is getting used to this system!!
Yes, it really depends on your build (ie bearing clearances, etc), the weight of the oil, and the type of oil (petroleum based vs. synthetic) where you will end up. But the beauty of the system is that you can tune it to work for your particular set up.
Also, I strongly agree with "pre-oiling" the motor with engine assembly lube and then building pressure in the system prior to firing the motor. The method we use is to pull the coil packs and the spark plugs and then turn the motor over on the starter until oil pressure is seen on the gauge. Pulling the plugs prevents the motor from firing but also does not allow any compression to develop so it is easier on the starter motor and allows it to turn the motor over faster to develop oil pressure sooner. Also, by not developing any compression no real forces are placed on the bearings while only the assembly lube is there preventing early wear. Depending on the length of your external oil lines and filter you may need to turn the motor over in a few short sessions to prevent overheating and burning out the starter motor. To help the system remember that the oil lines will take up quite a quantity of oil so make sure there is enough in the pan (you may need to refill once the filter and lines have been filled).
Hope this helps?
And Thanks Again guys for chiming in with first hand advice and knowledge!!
Yes, it really depends on your build (ie bearing clearances, etc), the weight of the oil, and the type of oil (petroleum based vs. synthetic) where you will end up. But the beauty of the system is that you can tune it to work for your particular set up.
Also, I strongly agree with "pre-oiling" the motor with engine assembly lube and then building pressure in the system prior to firing the motor. The method we use is to pull the coil packs and the spark plugs and then turn the motor over on the starter until oil pressure is seen on the gauge. Pulling the plugs prevents the motor from firing but also does not allow any compression to develop so it is easier on the starter motor and allows it to turn the motor over faster to develop oil pressure sooner. Also, by not developing any compression no real forces are placed on the bearings while only the assembly lube is there preventing early wear. Depending on the length of your external oil lines and filter you may need to turn the motor over in a few short sessions to prevent overheating and burning out the starter motor. To help the system remember that the oil lines will take up quite a quantity of oil so make sure there is enough in the pan (you may need to refill once the filter and lines have been filled).
Hope this helps?
And Thanks Again guys for chiming in with first hand advice and knowledge!!
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Unfortunately, my oil pump never produce any pressure. we've been trying to get it working for months now, so for now I'm back to using a brand new oem oil pump which works perfectly.
Tom, I need to call you and would really like to send you back the oil pump. Perhaps from there you can figure it out.
I can never catch a break with this car
fml
I'm happy though that everyone else's doc b setups work great because it is an awesome system. One question I have, is a aftermarket oil pan required?
Bump!
Tom, I need to call you and would really like to send you back the oil pump. Perhaps from there you can figure it out.
I can never catch a break with this car
fmlI'm happy though that everyone else's doc b setups work great because it is an awesome system. One question I have, is a aftermarket oil pan required?
Bump!
Unfortunately, my oil pump never produce any pressure. we've been trying to get it working for months now, so for now I'm back to using a brand new oem oil pump which works perfectly.
Tom, I need to call you and would really like to send you back the oil pump. Perhaps from there you can figure it out.
I can never catch a break with this car
I'm happy though that everyone else's doc b setups work great because it is an awesome system. One question I have, is a aftermarket oil pan required?
Bump!
Sandspeed,
I'm really stumped as to why you are having so much trouble with your system??? I have spent quite a few hours on the phone with your mechanic trying to analyze the situation. I would love to be able to inspect your pump and
PRV to see if we can figure this out.
Signature Sound
Banned
- :
- stock G15
sounds more like an issue with the PRV than the pump. since the stock pump works, bearing clearances should be good for the viscosity used. do you have any pics of the hose routing?
if you think about how the clearances are checked before and after, plus the internal bypass is eliminated, theres no way the pump should fail right off the bat. but i'm sure you guys have discussed all this already.... just want to help somehow.
if you think about how the clearances are checked before and after, plus the internal bypass is eliminated, theres no way the pump should fail right off the bat. but i'm sure you guys have discussed all this already.... just want to help somehow.
Just wanted to post and say that my engine is alive! We have put about 100 miles on it so far, and it is working great.
I do have a question though. When we started the engine while it was in the shop, the gauge would read 70-75 psi while cold, and drop to 10-20psi at idle when warm. Well, the car spent its first night outside last night....(about 20-25 degrees F.) I went to start the car this morning, and the oil pressure gauge pegged 110psi for a couple minutes.... it finally came down to where it was before, when the car started to warm up. Is this normal? Been trying to read online and seems many other cars will see 100+ when its cold outside. Just curious!
Other than that, the PRV works great!
Thanks again Tom!
I do have a question though. When we started the engine while it was in the shop, the gauge would read 70-75 psi while cold, and drop to 10-20psi at idle when warm. Well, the car spent its first night outside last night....(about 20-25 degrees F.) I went to start the car this morning, and the oil pressure gauge pegged 110psi for a couple minutes.... it finally came down to where it was before, when the car started to warm up. Is this normal? Been trying to read online and seems many other cars will see 100+ when its cold outside. Just curious!
Other than that, the PRV works great!
Thanks again Tom!
I hope my explanation is correct.
If you think about it the thicker a fluid the more pressure it will create when forced through small cavities. The colder the oil the more resistance to flowing it has. As it warms, it becomes more "runny" and therefore does not create the same resistance against the pumping mechanism.
I installed my oil psi gauge a while ago and even on my stock setup it runs about 65-75 psi on cold start.
If you think about it the thicker a fluid the more pressure it will create when forced through small cavities. The colder the oil the more resistance to flowing it has. As it warms, it becomes more "runny" and therefore does not create the same resistance against the pumping mechanism.
I installed my oil psi gauge a while ago and even on my stock setup it runs about 65-75 psi on cold start.
Great to hear the system is working!!
On the race car we use 20W50 Synthetic and when the motor is started for warm-up the oil pressure will go above 100psi if you rev the motor above 1500rpm. The major thing you have to be careful of at or above 100psi many of the standard fittings can blow. The AN fittings will usually hold up but any of the barb type fiitings will not. Also, the canister and gasket of a standard oil filter will not hold up to repeated 100psi and above events. Make sure you are using a racing oil filter rated for above 100 psi. If a line or filter were to rupture it would lead to immediate loss of oil pressure and probable catastrophic engine damage
What are your oil pressure readings once everything warms up? What weight oil are you using? Altering these a bit can help. Also, you can get a dipstick (or block) heater to prewarm the oil before you start the motor (or just keep the car in the garage).
Just a few thoughts...
Yeah, we used all AN fittings for the oil system... and we are using factory mazda filters atm.
I am not sure the weight, but we are using Royal Purples Engine Break-In oil. http://www.royalpurple.com/breakin-oil.html
when everything is warm, pressure is right around 15psi at idle.... if the car is in the garage, it will only hit 65-75 psi while cold... just threw me for a loop this morning when it was above 100.
The car is my DD, so would like to avoid using a block heater
I am not sure the weight, but we are using Royal Purples Engine Break-In oil. http://www.royalpurple.com/breakin-oil.html
when everything is warm, pressure is right around 15psi at idle.... if the car is in the garage, it will only hit 65-75 psi while cold... just threw me for a loop this morning when it was above 100.
The car is my DD, so would like to avoid using a block heater
Yeah, we used all AN fittings for the oil system... and we are using factory mazda filters atm.
I am not sure the weight, but we are using Royal Purples Engine Break-In oil. http://www.royalpurple.com/breakin-oil.html
when everything is warm, pressure is right around 15psi at idle.... if the car is in the garage, it will only hit 65-75 psi while cold... just threw me for a loop this morning when it was above 100.
The car is my DD, so would like to avoid using a block heater
Just make sure none of the AN to hose fittings are the barb type. They don't hold pressure as well.
The break-in oil is good but just for that...breaking in the motor. How much time do you have on the motor now? When did your engine builder say you could switch to a regular oil?
The Mazda factory oil filters are"okay" for filtering but definitely will not hold up to 100 psi!
A block heater is not really all that much trouble and alot less trouble than a blown line or filter
150 miles on the motor.... I'll be switching the filter tomorrow, then he said switch the filter again around 500 miles. I think he said we will use the 'break-in' oil till about 1000-1500 miles. Then start the switch to regular oil.
Just be really careful with a factory filter even at 60-70 psi. They weren't made to hold up to that kind of pressure. Strongly recommend to consider some type of racing filter that has a better seal and canister.
Seems a bit long to me to stay with the break-in oil but I would listen to your engine builder as he is the one who knows this motor....
Signature Sound
Banned
- :
- stock G15
My system has handled super high pressures at start up on a constant basis. I have been experimenting with different viscosities of oil and it regularly sees 100+ pressures at start up. I am more concerned with pressure at idle and cruising, but high rpm is equally important. I know if the other rpms are good, the high rpms will be good too. I use a Peterson oil filter with a stainless washable mesh filter element. All AN fittings as Tom mentioned and absolutely no issues. Remember that flow is equally important for cooling as pressure is for high down force on the bearings. The idea is to keep the motor at proper temps with a cusion to keep from metal on metal contact. The oil type is critical, but your mechanic should be able to tell you what to use based on the clearances he set for the motor. Tinker around if that advice doesnt work for you.
