FS-DE Oil System

[MP3racer]

Before making any judgments a few more details are needed....
First, what type of oil (synthetic or petroleum based) and what viscosity are you using?
Second, what are your clearances on the main and rod bearings?
The factory placement for the oil pressure sensor at the block will give the most accurate representation of the pressure the bearings are receiving. Placing sensors in the system at other positions can give various other readings.
Swithching to -8 lines won't make that big if a difference overall

 

[Maxx Mazda]

See my build thread for bearing clearances. 0.0015" iirc.

It's a brand new engine, so I'm running 5-30 Dino oil. Like I said I have an underhood mechanical gauge in the filter housing. My electric in the block I trust to me most accurate.

 

[MP3racer]

See my build thread for bearing clearances. 0.0015" iirc.

It's a brand new engine, so I'm running 5-30 Dino oil. Like I said I have an underhood mechanical gauge in the filter housing. My electric in the block I trust to me most accurate.

Looking at your build thread and the numbers you recorded with plastigauge I would have to say although your clearances on the mains are within the factory spec for a normal street low rpm motor, for a performance build they are a bit on the large side for a few of the mains (especially 1,3, & 4). Also a few of the rod clearances are slightly large ( specifically #4). We have found the main clearances are very important in these motors since the rods do not have their own oil supply but scavenge off the mains so slightly loose mains allows oil to be lost out the sides and decreases the available oil for the rod it supplies.

Also, with the current low viscosity oil you will tend to see lower hot idle pressures.

All that said, I would break your motor in carefully and watch your oil pressures closely. I'm guessing once you switch to a higher viscosity oil the hot oil pressures will rise and you should be fine.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Looking at your build thread and the numbers you recorded with plastigauge I would have to say although your clearances on the mains are within the factory spec for a normal street low rpm motor, for a performance build they are a bit on the large side for a few of the mains (especially 1,3, & 4). Also a few of the rod clearances are slightly large ( specifically #4). We have found the main clearances are very important in these motors since the rods do not have their own oil supply but scavenge off the mains so slightly loose mains allows oil to be lost out the sides and decreases the available oil for the rod it supplies.

Also, with the current low viscosity oil you will tend to see lower hot idle pressures.

All that said, I would break your motor in carefully and watch your oil pressures closely. I'm guessing once you switch to a higher viscosity oil the hot oil pressures will rise and you should be fine.

It is not a high RPM motor, although it is heavily boosted. Once break-in is complete I will be using a 15-40 synthetic. Thanks for the tips!

One more question, do you guys still run the oil jets in your race engines? Or do you plug them in favor of increasing the oil pressure to the bottom end? Do you know at what oil pressure the spring valve opens and allows the jets to come online?

 

[MP3racer]

It is not a high RPM motor, although it is heavily boosted. Once break-in is complete I will be using a 15-40 synthetic. Thanks for the tips!

One more question, do you guys still run the oil jets in your race engines? Or do you plug them in favor of increasing the oil pressure to the bottom end? Do you know at what oil pressure the spring valve opens and allows the jets to come online?

The 15-40 synthetic will help increase your hot idle pressure.

We do not run the piston oilers as this is mostly for the piston pin in the OE pressed in style. We run floating pins on our race pistons that have don't require the oilers. Removing and blocking the piston oilers will help improve oil pressure too. Sorry, I don't know the specs for the oilers.

Thanks!
Tom

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Because I'm heavily boosted, I elected to keep the jets as an added bit of cooling for the pistons.

I took the car for a gentle drive today for about 20 mins. Hot oil is about 40psi at 4000 RPM with the regulator cranked in with about 1/4" left showing. I may reinstall the restrictor in my turbo oil feed as I believe this is bleeding off too much pressure that my engine needs.

 

[big Lou]

Do you think you might be losing psi do to the 90 degree bends?? Any pics of the finished product??

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Do you think you might be losing psi do to the 90 degree bends?? Any pics of the finished product??

No. I only have 1 90* bend in the system (minus the one for the return going back INTO the MBSP) and it's still a fixed internal diameter that's no smaller than the hose.

I think I'm losing too much to my turbo oil feed, taken right off the filter block.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Also Doc, I hope it's not a "trade secret" but what viscosity of oil do you guys run in the race cars? I'm all for overkill, looking at running a 15w-50 synthetic once it's broken in. I know the oil system can handle it, and I'm sure my bearings will love me, but I just wanted to make sure. The car is not driven in anything colder than about 10*C, and is always parked in a heated garage, so cold start would not be an issue.

 

[MP3racer]

No. I only have 1 90* bend in the system (minus the one for the return going back INTO the MBSP) and it's still a fixed internal diameter that's no smaller than the hose.

I think I'm losing too much to my turbo oil feed, taken right off the filter block.

Most definitely replace the restrictor in your turbo oil feed line! The factory feed line is a specific diameter as well as the restrictor in various other feed lines to provide a determined specific flow rate to the turbo. If you take out the restrictor or increase the line size the oil flows too fast and will not provide the necessary cooling the turbo requires.

As far as your oil pressure, a rough rule of thumb for most performance engines is 10 psi for every 1000 rpm. So if you are at 40 psi at 4000 rpm and similar throughout the rpm range you should be fine.

 

[MP3racer]

Also Doc, I hope it's not a "trade secret" but what viscosity of oil do you guys run in the race cars? I'm all for overkill, looking at running a 15w-50 synthetic once it's broken in. I know the oil system can handle it, and I'm sure my bearings will love me, but I just wanted to make sure. The car is not driven in anything colder than about 10*C, and is always parked in a heated garage, so cold start would not be an issue.

We run Torco's 20W50 synthetic for max protection (since our oil temps can get upwards of 300 degrees F) in longer races. With your application the 15w50 should be great as long as you are always in the heated garage when the temps get down to 10 degrees C. May even want to drop back to a 10W40 synthetic for the coldest months...

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Thanks for the info. I didn't have a factory oil feed line, (not MSP) and I'm running a journal bearing turbo (feed line is -4AN) so I don't want to restrict it too much. I can get Mobil1 15-50 pretty easily, so once break-in is done I'll go with that.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Switched to 15W-40 Shell Rotella for the remainder of my break in. Oil pressure is up. With the regulator adjusted to about 1/8" showing on the threaded part, idle oil pressure is 25psi, 80psi at 4,000 RPM.

Got the engine hot, the old 10-30 I drained out was like water. It served its purpose for the initial startup, but I was not impressed by how thin it was when hot.

 

[CustomMSP]

I think us with journal bearing turbos see lower pressure than those with BB turbos.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

I think us with journal bearing turbos see lower pressure than those with BB turbos.

I reinstalled my restrictor as well. It's journal bearing specific so it will still let enough oil in to keep the turbo happy. At max rpm a journal bearing turbo should have about 45psi of oil pressure.

 

[Alamo1]

45-60 is what Garrett says. At max load.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

45-60 is what Garrett says. At max load.

Right. Is that on a -3AN line? I'm using -4, so that much pressure will flood my turbo.

 

[Alamo1]

It does not give a spec for line size.

 

[mazdaspeedp]

Can I get my oil pump moded? How much in total with shipping y
To get this done?

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Can I get my oil pump moded? How much in total with shipping y
To get this done?

See first post.